Welcome Tee Higgins

[impactplaya]

Higgins played against better competition than Mims.

[Nicomo Cosca]

We’ve been absolutely spoiled by having 2 elite WR’s in a row with Chad and AJ. I hope the trend continues with Higgins. This franchise, for all its faults, has done really well with WR’s over the years. Excluding Ross ofc.

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-25-2020, 11:05 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Not saying it doesn't exist, but I haven't seen a single bit of tape where Mims is NOT extending his arm, pushing off the coverage man; that'll get called every single time in the pros, even the few times he BEAT his man, he still does it.

Then, there's the fact that of all the high-profile receivers this class (1st/2nd rounders projected), he easily had the most cupcake schedule, defense-wise.

Lastly, he's a Baylor WR; outside of Gordon, not a single one has done anything of note, in the league.

Agim went to the Broncos.

I'd be cool with anyone at this point; the rest of the draft will basically be depth and potential, so anyone is good for me.

Who I'd want though, is Bartch, Moss, ADG.

Like I said, his WR coach apparently didn't want him, so that's good enough for me. The film I saw from the practice sessions at the Senior Bowl didn't show him pushing off, but showed him twisting DBs sideways and blowing by them.  

Agim went to the Broncos?  I guess the folks that dogged me for having him selected in the 7th round of my mocks don't know shit...he went in the 3rd!  Crazy.  I liked him but not that much!

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-25-2020, 11:59 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Like I said, his WR coach apparently didn't want him, so that's good enough for me. The film I saw from the practice sessions at the Senior Bowl didn't show him pushing off, but showed him twisting DBs sideways and blowing by them.  

Agim went to the Broncos?  I guess the folks that dogged me for having him selected in the 7th round of my mocks don't know shit...he went in the 3rd!  Crazy.  I liked him but not that much!

Tbf do we know Mims WR coach didn’t want him? Maybe he did, but Taylor and Tobin liked Higgins better?

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-25-2020, 12:06 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Tbf do we know Mims WR coach didn’t want him? Maybe he did, but Taylor and Tobin liked Higgins better?

I just mean if his coach didn't jump up and down on the table.  Maybe it was just Taylor and Higgins, but if the guy was really sold on him, I think he would be a Bengal...It will be interesting to see how he does.  

Kind of odd, Van Jefferson's dad is the WR coach at the Jets and they drafted Mims...

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

I would have gone WR at 33 over tackle (with Queen, Murray, and Brooks gone), so I was with the FO there.

But I must confess, of the guys on the board day 2, I much preferred Pittman to Higgins. Was not high on Mins (too raw). I wanted a security blanket type for Burrow & thought Pittman could be our Michael Thomas. He's bigger and more physical than Higgins and also returns kicks & blocks punts, and a better run blocker.

I also did not like the way Higgins did not do much in the CFP this year.

Having said that, he is still more polished than Shenault or Mims, he just rurned 21 so perhaps he does get a bit stronger (into the 220+ range). And unlike Pittman (who is a wide guy), Higgins has experience in the slot & wide, so he can lineup with any combo of AJ, Boyd, Ross, and Tate. If Ross improves again this year, the WR corps is NASTY.

Plus, he is a Bengals fan who modeled his game on AJ.

I don't LOVE the pick, but I get it and am warming to it. I certainly do not hate it.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

On the TE thing, was sad that someone traded up to take Teautman (from Dayton) two picks in front of us. Pats also took two TEs that round. That was a bummer.

But CJ is not terrible. Do wish Eifert would have stayed.

[CJD]

(04-25-2020, 10:41 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Like I said, I don't hate the pick....it is just a concern of mine and the fact is that he isn't an immediate separation generator.  It takes him a bit to "get up to speed".  We have a lot of guys like that.  The quickest in a phone booth, by far, is Ross who has been unreliable and may not be here beyond next season (I hope that is not the case).

When I saw Mims breaking ankles and rocketing of the LOS at the Senior Bowl week, I was salivating.  Higgins is a heck of a talent, but I was hoping for someone that had a bit more suddenness.  That's all.  I don't mean to sound like that is complaining.  We are killing the draft so far and I am beyond excited.  

Start round 4 with ADG and our LB corps went from mostly duds to 4 studs in one offseason.  The WR room is better and deeper.  Maybe a mauling guard like Simpson in Rd 5 and get some late round athletes that are raw (McTelvin Agim, DT and Casey Toohill, EDGE?) and we will be ready to roll. 

Abount a month ago, I went through some Mims highlights and time stamped instances of him pushing off, if you're interested. The post is here:
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Post-First-Wave-of-FA-Draft-CJD?pid=846783#pid846783

[WVUHomer]

(04-25-2020, 12:18 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I just mean if his coach didn't jump up and down on the table.  Maybe it was just Taylor and Higgins, but if the guy was really sold on him, I think he would be a Bengal...It will be interesting to see how he does.  

Kind of odd, Van Jefferson's dad is the WR coach at the Jets and they drafted Mims...

I do wonder if maybe that had more for his dad asking the team NOT to draft him so there isn't any claims of nepotism in the organization allowing his son the chance to prove more that it's his talent that gets him playing time instead of (potentially unfairly) people claiming it's just because he's the coaches kid?

[fredtoast]

No problem with Higgins, just did not like going WR this early after giving Green $18 million for this year.

I totally understand drafting a top WR to grow and develop with our rookie QB, but if that was the plan we should have let Green walk. When we drafted Green he was clearly our #1 WR. How much play is Higgins going to get as our #1 WR with both Boyd and Green still on the team.

Still think we have a gaping hole at OG. Would have preferred a possible starter there over a #3 WR.

[fredtoast]

I have seen a lot of discussion about 40times in this thread. My theory is that forty times are almost meaningless for WRs. Forty time is dependent on how fast you get off the line, and since DBs either give a cushion or try to jam the WR at the line of scrimmage the benefits of a quick start are negated.

What really matters is "top speed". You will see lots of taller WRs have somewhat slower forty times, but when they hit top speed the are running away from defenders.

Drag race fans know what I am talking about. Drag races have both an "elapsed time" which is loike the forty time, and they also have "trap speed" which is how fast the car is travelling at the finish line. Just like with cars two WRs can cross the finish line of the forty yard dash in the same elapsed time but one is running a lot faster than the other. Top speed is what you need to "take the top off the defense", not a low forty time based on a quick jump off the line.

[CJD]

(04-25-2020, 12:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No problem with Higgins, just did not like going WR this early after giving Green $18 million for this year.

I totally understand drafting a top WR to grow and develop with our rookie QB, but if that was the plan we should have let Green walk.  When we drafted Green he was clearly our #1 WR.  How much play is Higgins going to get as our #1 WR with both Boyd and Green still on the team.

Still think we have a gaping hole at OG.  Would have preferred a possible starter there over a #3 WR.

I think drafting players and giving them a year to grow and learn before taking over in their 2nd year is ideal for player development. Obviously, you can't always do that but when you get the chance I like the practice. 

I think the Bengals are much more comfortable with their oline than we are. I would have loved a day 1 starter at OG with round 1 talent at 33 but I don't really think there was one there. Robert Hunt maybe, but is he a better talent than Higgins? I'm not so sure. 

Generally, if you can get a better talent at a lesser need (but still a near future need) it's a good use of your draft capital. Drafting strictly on need is a risky proposition. 

[impactplaya]

(04-25-2020, 12:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No problem with Higgins, just did not like going WR this early after giving Green $18 million for this year.

I totally understand drafting a top WR to grow and develop with our rookie QB, but if that was the plan we should have let Green walk.  When we drafted Green he was clearly our #1 WR.  How much play is Higgins going to get as our #1 WR with both Boyd and Green still on the team.

Still think we have a gaping hole at OG.  Would have preferred a possible starter there over a #3 WR.

They signed the big kid from Dallas to a starter $$$$
Michael Jordan is being prepared to be a starter year 2 
After a up and down rookie year. Isiah Prince and Redmond
Are probally at best depth 
If there is a hole at OG it's the lack of quality depth 
Where's the gaping hole ?

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(04-25-2020, 12:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I have seen a lot of discussion about 40times in this thread. My theory is that forty times are almost meaningless for WRs. Forty time is dependent on how fast you get off the line, and since DBs either give a cushion or try to jam the WR at the line of scrimmage the benefits of a quick start are negated.

What really matters is "top speed". You will see lots of taller WRs have somewhat slower forty times, but when they hit top speed the are running away from defenders.

Drag race fans know what I am talking about. Drag races have both an "elapsed time" which is loike the forty time, and they also have "trap speed" which is how fast the car is travelling at the finish line. Just like with cars two WRs can cross the finish line of the forty yard dash in the same elapsed time but one is running a lot faster than the other. Top speed is what you need to "take the top off the defense", not a low forty time based on a quick jump off the line.

Bingo.

The RAS or SAR or whatever score (the relative athleticism or whatever score) for AJ and Higgins is MUCH in AJ's favour... but top speed, he is exactly equal with AJ.

We got a good one!

[fredtoast]

(04-25-2020, 12:58 PM)impactplaya Wrote: They signed the big kid from Dallas to a starter $$$$
Michael Jordan is being prepared to be a starter year 2 
After a up and down rookie year. Isiah Prince and Redmond
Are probally at best depth 
If there is a hole at OG it's the lack of quality depth 
Where's the gaping hole ?

Su'a-Filo was cut by the Titans in 2018, and no team signed him as a starter.  He was a back up for two years before we signed him for less money than John Miller got.  I don't know how anyone can be confident that he will be a quality starter.

I actually like Jordan's potential a lot, but he looked bad last year.

If we were going to use the #33 pick on a WR then we should have let Green walk and used that $18 million to help the O-line.

[Okeana]

(04-25-2020, 12:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I have seen a lot of discussion about 40times in this thread.  My theory is that forty times are almost meaningless for WRs.  Forty time is dependent on how fast you get off the line, and since DBs either give a cushion or try to jam the WR at the line of scrimmage the benefits of a quick start are negated.

What really matters is "top speed".  You will see lots of taller WRs have somewhat slower forty times, but when they hit top speed the are running away from defenders.  

Drag race fans know what I am talking about.  Drag races have both an "elapsed time" which is loike the forty time, and they also have "trap speed" which is how fast the car is travelling at the finish line.  Just like with cars two WRs can cross the finish line of the forty yard dash in the same elapsed time but one is running a lot faster than the other.  Top speed is what you need to "take the top off the defense", not a low forty time based on a quick jump off the line.

De'andre Hopkins ran a 4.58 and he's been much better than John Ross.  I think there is a threshold you want to hit of at least 4.6, but regardless the position can be overcome by talent and work ethic.

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-25-2020, 12:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No problem with Higgins, just did not like going WR this early after giving Green $18 million for this year.

I totally understand drafting a top WR to grow and develop with our rookie QB, but if that was the plan we should have let Green walk.  When we drafted Green he was clearly our #1 WR.  How much play is Higgins going to get as our #1 WR with both Boyd and Green still on the team.

Still think we have a gaping hole at OG.  Would have preferred a possible starter there over a #3 WR.

I find it interesting that the Patriots have not drafted a QB or a WR thus far...and the Bengals have not drafted a guard.

I have no idea how it would work with their horrible cap situation, but could there be a Dalton/Green trade for Thuney?

As I understand it, the Pats can't get Thuney to take a "team-friendly" deal.  So, if he plays under the franchise tag, it costs them over $12 million and they won't get any compensation if they lose him a year later.  I have no idea how the dollars would work.  Maybe it is just Dalton and our 5th round pick for Thuney and the Bengals would also have to pay a % of Dalton's contract?  Or maybe Dalton does a new deal...I bet Dalton would sign for VERY little to play for the Pats...especially as a starter.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-25-2020, 12:21 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: I would have gone WR at 33 over tackle (with Queen, Murray, and Brooks gone), so I was with the FO there.

But I must confess, of the guys on the board day 2, I much preferred Pittman to Higgins. Was not high on Mins (too raw). I wanted a security blanket type for Burrow & thought Pittman could be our Michael Thomas. He's bigger and more physical than Higgins and also returns kicks & blocks punts, and a better run blocker.

I also did not like the way Higgins did not do much in the CFP this year.

Having said that, he is still more polished than Shenault or Mims, he just rurned 21 so perhaps he does get a bit stronger (into the 220+ range). And unlike Pittman (who is a wide guy), Higgins has experience in the slot & wide, so he can lineup with any combo of AJ, Boyd, Ross, and Tate. If Ross improves again this year, the WR corps is NASTY.

Plus, he is a Bengals fan who modeled his game on AJ.

I don't LOVE the pick, but I get it and am warming to it. I certainly do not hate it.

I said earlier that if Ross and AJ Green are healthy all season, the Bengals will make the playoffs. 

Where was our weakness on defense:

The middle against the run.   Add DJ Reader, Von Bell, ADG, and Logan Wilson.  

Tackling:  Add some of the best tacklers in their position groups with McKenzie, Waynes, and Bell.

Offensive line:  Added Fred Johnson late last year, who may be a steal.  WIlliams coming back off injury.  XSF over John Miller.  Michael Jordan in year 2, who really started to trend up late last year.  I would still LOVE a trade where the Bengals get Thuney at RG.

Offensive weapons when Green and Ross were down:  Add Tee Higgins (and maybe Quez Watkins in Rd 5 as a backup to Ross at X?)

QB mobility and vision:  Add Joey Burrow.

49ers made the Super Bowl off a 2-14 season.  No reason the Bengals can't.  I believe in Burrow that much.  

[Chezaugie]

Bengals better include Hot Wheels incentive in his contract.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-25-2020, 05:48 PM)Chezaugie Wrote: Bengals better include Hot Wheels incentive in his contract.

Put real cars in his bonuses. Lol