Where the Bengals Have Already Failed Joe Burrow

[SunsetBengal]

(05-07-2020, 06:36 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Just so we're clear, you don't understand how a play like this:


would count as a longer drop back, despite being extreme pressure allowed by the Oline?

Also a great picture of amazing body control and arm strength, throwing a 50 yard dart while under heavy duress.

[Bronxbengal]

(05-03-2020, 11:45 AM)fredtoast Wrote: What does this guy think he is doing posting actual statistics.  Doesn't he know that the "eye test" proves that thre LSU O-line was terrible and Burrow just made them look better.

Guess he is as blind as the NFL teams that drafted/signed every senior on that line.  And just as blind as the people who presented the Joe Moore Award to LSU for having the best O-line in the nation.

Weren’t you the one touting the greatness of Paul Alexander a few years back. That action in itself disqualifies you as an expert in anything related to o-line play. Paul Alexander is a complete hack


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[*bengalfan74*]

(05-07-2020, 06:36 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Just so we're clear, you don't understand how a play like this:


would count as a longer drop back, despite being extreme pressure allowed by the Oline?

He understands, he's just on a mission to prove JB ain't all that. Then he back pedals just enough to pretend he was on board just in case JB lights it up.

(05-07-2020, 06:49 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: First link has passer efficiency for each college QB. Burrow at the top with 202.00

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/individual/8

Second link has a discussion on Burrow 'under pressure' and says the following. "When pressured, Burrow still completes 73.9 percent of his passes, a clip 9.5 percentage points better than any other player in the country and the top mark produced by any QB since at least 2011.4. He also has a 211.2 passer efficiency rating, the highest among qualified passers over that stretch, and has thrown 19 touchdowns, five clear of any other QB in a single season."

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/is-joe-burrow-the-most-efficient-college-qb-ever/

AKA, his passer efficiency rating is actually higher than his average when he is under pressure.

I couldn't find the original video where I saw this, but they said he was the only QB who had a passer efficiency rating increase when under pressure, other QBs saw declines. I can't unfortunately find that video.

He understands

(05-07-2020, 07:39 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Yeah, it's shouldn't be difficult to grasp the concept that the QB sometimes has to hold onto the ball longer due to nearly immediate pressure disrupting the play...forcing him to scramble, improvise and take longer to throw than planned.

(05-07-2020, 09:07 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Also a great picture of amazing body control and arm strength, throwing a 50 yard dart while under heavy duress.

He's just average, what made him was this all world Oline 

[fredtoast]

(05-07-2020, 06:36 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Just so we're clear, you don't understand how a play like this:


would count as a longer drop back, despite being extreme pressure allowed by the Oline?

From my understanding the "time to throw" stat is not the same as "release time".

So I'd like to see the source of that stat that was cited.

[fredtoast]

(05-07-2020, 11:33 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: He understands, he's just on a mission to prove JB ain't all that. Then he back pedals just enough to pretend he was on board just in case JB lights it up.

You all are turning this into a clown show.  You guys are claiming you know more than the experts that voted for the Joe Moore Trophy, and I'M the one with an agenda?

I raged about Marvin getting an extension after the 2017 season, but as soon as I say something critical about Zac you all come out with the 100% bullshit claims that I still want Marvin to be the coach here.

You all can not quote one bad thing I have said about Burrow, but your cult gets so threatened by the truth that you make it about personal attacks on me.

I will admit I was shocked to see Burrow had a higher passer rating under pressure than when not, but anyone who believes he does not need pass protection to thrive in the NFL is living in fantasy land.

[fredtoast]

(05-07-2020, 11:33 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: He's just average, what made him was this all world Oline 

You want to attack me for things I never said, so instead you make up pretend quotes.

I feel sorry for people who live in make believe land.

LSU O-LINE WINS JOE MOORE TROPHY 

They are not any good  

THREE O-LINMEN VOTED ALL-SEC

They are not any good!  

THREE OF TOP 19 O-LINEMEN N THE DRAFT FROM LSU

  They are not any good!  

JOE BURROW DOES NOT EVEN NEED PASS PROTECTION BECAUSE HE IS BETTER WITHOUT IT!

[Nicomo Cosca]

0 LSU O-LINEMEN TAKEN IN THE FIRST 2 ROUNDS

Joe Moore Award!

15 O-LINEMAN TAKEN FROM OTHER SCHOOLS BEFORE A SINGLE ONE FROM LSU CAME OFF THE BOARD

Joe Moore Award! Experts!

[fredtoast]

(05-08-2020, 10:57 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: 0 LSU O-LINEMEN TAKEN IN THE FIRST 2 ROUNDS

Joe Moore Award!

15 O-LINEMAN TAKEN FROM OTHER SCHOOLS BEFORE A SINGLE ONE FROM LSU CAME OFF THE BOARD

Joe Moore Award! Experts!

I have no idea what your point is.  Joe Moore Award is not an individual award.  The fifteen O-linemen taken before the LSU guys were from 14 different teams.

You do know it takes at least five players to make an offensive line, right?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(05-08-2020, 11:00 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I have no idea what your point is.  Joe Moore Award is not an individual award.  The fifteen O-linemen taken before the LSU guys were from 14 different teams.

You do know it takes at least five players to make an offensive line, right?

The point (that is so clear to everyone but you) is there was no high end talent on that OL. They won an award because their offense was ridiculously good, not because they were truly the best unit in the country.

[fredtoast]

(05-08-2020, 11:04 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The point (that is so clear to everyone but you) is there was no high end talent on that OL. They won an award because their offense was ridiculously good, not because they were truly the best unit in the country.

The point that is clear to everyone except the Burrow Cult is that LSU had the best O-line in the country.

The voters for the Joe Moore Award include every O-line coach from D-I/FBS schools plus former players.  They did not just look at offensive stats,  Instead they actually broke down film to analyze the blocking.


It is comical to hear you guys accuse me of being blind for not agreeing with you guys over them.

[GreenCornBengal]

(05-07-2020, 06:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote:

Link please? 

You asked for links and I provided links. Please let me know your thoughts when you get a moment.

Fred where you at???

[Headless Horseman]

(05-06-2020, 05:18 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: What a stupid article.

Yep. 

I did a quick Google search, the writer is a Browns homer who from what I gathered via Browns forums and Twitter gives away scouting reports made in his moms basement and is considered a moron among that fan base. 

After looking up other articles written by this Brent clown I would concur, he knows very little about football. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-07-2020, 06:36 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Just so we're clear, you don't understand how a play like this:


would count as a longer drop back, despite being extreme pressure allowed by the Oline?

Yeah, that O-line is all world man and Burrow has nothing to do with it.  

(05-07-2020, 06:49 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: First link has passer efficiency for each college QB. Burrow at the top with 202.00

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/individual/8

Second link has a discussion on Burrow 'under pressure' and says the following. "When pressured, Burrow still completes 73.9 percent of his passes, a clip 9.5 percentage points better than any other player in the country and the top mark produced by any QB since at least 2011.4. He also has a 211.2 passer efficiency rating, the highest among qualified passers over that stretch, and has thrown 19 touchdowns, five clear of any other QB in a single season."

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/is-joe-burrow-the-most-efficient-college-qb-ever/

AKA, his passer efficiency rating is actually higher than his average when he is under pressure.

I couldn't find the original video where I saw this, but they said he was the only QB who had a passer efficiency rating increase when under pressure, other QBs saw declines. I can't unfortunately find that video.

Great stuff GCB.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-08-2020, 10:41 AM)fredtoast Wrote: You want to attack me for things I never said, so instead you make up pretend quotes.

I feel sorry for people who live in make believe land.

LSU O-LINE WINS JOE MOORE TROPHY 

They are not any good  

THREE O-LINMEN VOTED ALL-SEC

They are not any good!  

THREE OF TOP 19 O-LINEMEN N THE DRAFT FROM LSU

  They are not any good!  

JOE BURROW DOES NOT EVEN NEED PASS PROTECTION BECAUSE HE IS BETTER WITHOUT IT!

No one has said the LSU O-line isn't any good Fred. But for them to get the Joe Moore trophy over Bama makes no sense to me.

I see much better Line play from Bama, only 12 sacks. LSU gave up 30 for heck sake. Tell me which is better...

Also Bama had one of if not the best Guard in the country last year.

[fredtoast]

(05-08-2020, 01:18 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: You asked for links and I provided links. Please let me know your thoughts when you get a moment.

Fred where you at???

I addressed this back in post # 145

(05-08-2020, 10:30 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I will admit I was shocked to see Burrow had a higher passer rating under pressure than when not, but anyone who believes he does not need pass protection to thrive in the NFL is living in fantasy land.

But I should have acknowledged this directly in a post to you.

You were correct.  His completion percentage dropped some, but overall I guess he gained more yards and tds per attempt.

[kdgjr]

Wow. My longest thread I ever started.

Hope no one gets killed.

[samhain]

(05-07-2020, 09:19 PM)Bronxbengal Wrote: Weren’t you the one touting the greatness of Paul Alexander a few years back.  That action in itself disqualifies you as an expert in anything related to o-line play.  Paul Alexander is a complete hack


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I obviously disagree with Fred's premise here, but this is false, IMO.  

Paul Alexander failed this team when he stood on the table for Ogbuehi and Fisher.  He wrecked the offense and perhaps the entrire team for a half decade.  

It should be pointed out, however, that before that he coached some pretty stellar offensive lines.  He coached and evaluated two sets of true bookend tackles, and two sets of guards that were solid to pro bowl caliber in his time here.  He was a good OL coach for a long time.  He just decided to get cute and draft power forwards instead of the typical maulers that he'd had success with in prior years.   

[fredtoast]

(05-09-2020, 02:18 PM)samhain Wrote: I obviously disagree with Fred's premise here, but this is false, IMO.  

Paul Alexander failed this team when he stood on the table for Ogbuehi and Fisher.  He wrecked the offense and perhaps the entrire team for a half decade.  

It should be pointed out, however, that before that he coached some pretty stellar offensive lines.  He coached and evaluated two sets of true bookend tackles, and two sets of guards that were solid to pro bowl caliber in his time here.  He was a good OL coach for a long time.  He just decided to get cute and draft power forwards instead of the typical maulers that he'd had success with in prior years.   

Don't forget Bodine.  He was a PA favorite also.

For over 20 years Alexander was a guy who never missed on a high pick and also got production out of several late round picks and undrafted free agents.

But when he went bad it got ugly quick.  That 2015 draft was not the only reason this team went off the tracks, but it is fair to say it is one of the single biggest.  And the year before we had traded up for Bodine.  Our O-line has still not recovered.

[masonbengals fan]

Exactly...that 15 draft still haunts this team.

[GreenCornBengal]

(05-09-2020, 01:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I addressed this back in post # 145



But I should have acknowledged this directly in a post to you.

You were correct.  His completion percentage dropped some, but overall I guess he gained more yards and tds per attempt.

Ah, missed it, apologies.

FWIW, I agree with you, LSU had a great line last year. It would be naive to think his great play wasn’t influenced by having those guys up there. He does well under pressure tho, and hopefully that carries over because he is definitely going to be feeling the heat.