Joe speaks out

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(05-31-2020, 08:06 PM)BacknDaDey Wrote: I wonder how many in Cincy Jungle thinks "Taking a Knee" is problematic now with what is going on around the country?

There was a lot of posters in here who was against Colin Kaepernick for "Taking a Knee". It supposedly brought the wrong
kind of attention and distraction to the League and to a team. I bet you see a whole lot of players "Taking a Knee" this season
and rightfully so. All the owners and GM's were oh so wrong for black-balling him. Would teams now consider him as a worthy backup
quarterback? Should the Bengals offer an invite to camp?

Just some thoughts.

(06-01-2020, 08:51 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: 100% agree

There's a time and a place to protest and during the national anthem is not the time.

Bingo and I'm not even American.

You NEVER besmirch your country and those that HAVE sacrificed, to make your cause known.

CK was absolutely justified in his protest and many of us have agreed with him since day 1.

But not during the anthem; selfish and not the right place/time.

Before the anthem, every PA announcer says, "to honour America/Canada/whatever country." You're protesting against police brutality, wtf does that have to do with the country itself, that is to be honoured?

A more pointed protest, would be to wear his own cleats, with a protest message or something of that nature, so that every second he's on the screen, people can be reminded of why he's protesting; surely though, he didn't do this because his selfishness of keeping the money he would be assuredly fined with, is more important than the cause he's protesting.

Taking a knee, the action of which (at that specific time) is shitting on the country where you were born, given life, education, a job that less than 5000 in the world have, millions, etc., is beyond selfish and dismissive of the actual thing he is protesting.

Had he done it more tastefully and in the proper setting (or, doing something like the cleat suggestion above), I guarantee you he would still be playing, still in the public light, bringing awareness to his cause AND he'd be lauded for using his platform for good, instead of being vilified.

[Shake n Blake]

(05-31-2020, 04:29 PM)Whatever Wrote: Is every charge of resisting arrest justified?  No.  Does the fact that every charge of resisting arrest isn't warranted mean that no charge of resisting arrest is warranted?  No.  Let's look at the statistics from SF that I posted earlier.  African Americans accounted for 6% of the population, but 45% of resisting arrest charges in misdemeanor cases.  In order for the resisting arrest rate for African Americans to be in line with their population, only 13% of those cases could be legitimate.  The other 87% were just made up.  Does anybody really believe that only one in ten cases of resisting arrest involving African American suspects is legitimate?  I hope not.  Even if half of those cases are made up BS, their rate of resisting arrest is still almost four times their population percentage.

Dude, people of all races get stopped for stuff they consider to be BS.  When I was living in a primarily black neighborhood, I got stopped and my truck searched because I was doing 38 in a 35.  I've seen firsthand a cop pull his weapon on a 40 something white woman who had his back turned to him in a Chipotle in the Ohio State campus area.  I used to have a one bedroom apartment that was technically in Upper Arlington(wealthy section of Columbus) and I would get stopped in my old Crown Vic with the caved in door and peeling paint all the time.  I got pulled over for doing 50 in a 45 one night a few months back.  Cops are going to stop you if you look out of place or if you or your vehicle matches the description of a suspect.  When I got pulled over in the black neighborhood, I had started renting space in a house with a coworker and he had told me there were drug houses in the area.  The cops see a white male they don't know rolling through and they're going to stop me and check it out.  That lady the cop pulled the gun on matched the description of a woman who was just involved in a bank robbery nearby.  When I would get stopped in my old beater car I looked massively out of place driving by a bunch of houses with Mercedes and BMW's in the garage.  When I got stopped a few months back, the cop went to my passenger side window and I could tell he had his hand on his holster.  He asked for my license, which I already had out and asked if I knew why he stopped me.  I told him because I was doing 50 in a 45.  He handed back my license, never asked for my registration and let me off with a warning.  It was pretty obvious he pulled me over because my car matched the description of a suspect vehicle and something was up because of just how hurried he acted through the whole thing.  

Both of my parents and my Grandfather had talks with me about dealing with police when I got my learners permit.  Whether you're black, white, Hispanic, Asian, whatever, if you get loud with a cop, you're headed for trouble.  Many African Americans have a tendency to get loud and defiant in an attempt to assert dominance in confrontations.  White people are generally more willing to show deference to authority figures, hence parents not being as worried about what happens when they get stopped.  

I had SWAT put me face down on the pavement with a shotgun to the back of my skull, just because I fit the description (white guy with a goatee?) of someone selling drugs near my apartment building. I also had cops have everyone in my car "walk backwards to the sound of my voice" with guns pointed at our backs, because our car "fit a description". They had us drop to our knees and cuffed us to sort things out.

In either instance, I would've been dead had I even twitched the wrong way. No offense, but I think a lot of people talking race relations and cops have never sniffed a ghetto in their lives. No, I'm not saying all black people live in ghettos. What I'm saying is that a lot of these situations happen in bad neighborhoods, where what happens to cops on a daily basis would blow some of your upper middle-class minds.

We have to consider all angles and perspectives to come up with good solutions to the problems. I think one possible solution would be to have a time limit on how long a cop can serve in a problem city/area. Maybe cycle cops in and out of problem areas every 2 years? Maybe a psychological review every year? There's a lot of things we can consider.

(05-31-2020, 08:06 PM)BacknDaDey Wrote: I wonder how many in Cincy Jungle thinks "Taking a Knee" is problematic now with what is going on around the country?

There was a lot of posters in here who was against Colin Kaepernick for "Taking a Knee".  It supposedly brought the wrong
kind of attention and distraction to the League and to a team.  I bet you see a whole lot of players "Taking a Knee" this season
and rightfully so.  All the owners and GM's were oh so wrong for black-balling him.  Would teams now consider him as a worthy backup
quarterback?  Should the Bengals offer an invite to camp?

Just some thoughts.

My feelings on Kaep's method of protest haven't changed, nor do I see why they should. I think most people didn't beef as much with his cause, so much as his methods. Intentionally disrespecting the country, causing division, wearing pig socks and Che shirts...all were divisive actions. He was being more Malcolm X (racist and bitter) than MLK (preaching unity and equality).

The best way to bring positive change is to come with fairness and a message of love/equality. Instead, Kaep intentionally made himself a lightning rod with actions that were clearly divisive and reeked of bitterness and resentment.

As much as some will try to dismiss the Anthem as "just a song" and the Flag as "just a piece of cloth", those are sentiments that are clearly not universal. Otherwise, Kaep wouldn't have picked that form of protest in the first place. He chose that form of protest because he knew it'd piss a lot of people off and get them talking.

(05-31-2020, 10:35 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I don’t particularly like the guy myself, but it’s definitely not his skill level keeping him out of the game. Like I said, he’s better than our backup, and I’d wager better than at least a handful of backups around the league.

Go back and watch some highlights of Tebow's 2011 season and tell me he wasn't better than many backups in the league. He was out of the league because the distraction caused by having him on the roster outweighed the value of what he brought to the table. Kaep was slightly better, but he'd also be an even bigger distraction.

These guys don't get blackballed for their causes, they get blackballed because the talent doesn't outweigh the distraction.

[Johnny Cupcakes]

Beautiful. It’s always good to see people with in a position of influence using their voice in a positive way. Hopefully he keeps it up and uses his platform to actually help make a positive change happen.

[Destro]

(05-31-2020, 11:08 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I like to believe I do this, but how does it stop cop brutality? If a few senseless murders can incite mass rioting, how does me being a nice non-racist dude change anything?

Just like everything else, you can't stop, but must believe that any case should be treated with as much vigor as everything else. Without getting all militant about anything, the police is the government. No one, regardless of race, position, political party should be above the law and our Constitution. When they know that they have no control, and must serve the people, they tend to do the right thing. It is and always has been about accountability. Everyone needs to be responsible. 

[Destro]

Kaep taking a knee was at the direction of a white veteran. It was a drop to a knee, not flicking off the anthem or turning his back or something. He also wasn't the one to announce what he was doing. It was noticed, after some time. The police is as government are the Congress and POTUS. This was the America that was being protested. The Bill of Rights and Constitution is all about the restraining of government. Questioning and taking the government to task at every turn is the most American thing you can do.

That said, I think Kaep is a tool. I thought that long before any of the kneeling. When it came to players taking and stand, I think he did a horrible job, was too far in many things ( pig socks was stupid ) and was always more about himself than any real cause. A case where you can be an ass but still be a correct ass.

[jfkbengals]

(06-01-2020, 01:08 PM)Whatever Wrote: I also defy anyone to go to the slate.com homepage and come to the conclusion that this is relatively neutral journalistic website.

I disagree that the data was manipulated.  As to the site itself, there were several other sites with the article.  Unfortunately they had pay walls, so I linked the first one that didn't have that.  And all journalism should have an agenda.  To speak the truth...

On that note, I am done with this conversation.

Good for Joe, as I stated earlier in the thread...

[*jason*]

(06-01-2020, 02:31 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Bingo and I'm not even American.

You NEVER besmirch your country and those that HAVE sacrificed, to make your cause known.

CK was absolutely justified in his protest and many of us have agreed with him since day 1.

But not during the anthem; selfish and not the right place/time.

Before the anthem, every PA announcer says, "to honour America/Canada/whatever country." You're protesting against police brutality, wtf does that have to do with the country itself, that is to be honoured?

A more pointed protest, would be to wear his own cleats, with a protest message or something of that nature, so that every second he's on the screen, people can be reminded of why he's protesting; surely though, he didn't do this because his selfishness of keeping the money he would be assuredly fined with, is more important than the cause he's protesting.

Taking a knee, the action of which (at that specific time) is shitting on the country where you were born, given life, education, a job that less than 5000 in the world have, millions, etc., is beyond selfish and dismissive of the actual thing he is protesting.

Had he done it more tastefully and in the proper setting (or, doing something like the cleat suggestion above), I guarantee you he would still be playing, still in the public light, bringing awareness to his cause AND he'd be lauded for using his platform for good, instead of being vilified.

His rationale; not mine.... But he chose that time to do it because he, and many others view police brutality against black people as SYSTEMATIC. That brutality is a symptom of the disease, and not the disease itself. They were brought here on slave ships, spent 400 years in chattel slavery, and have been a permanent underclass ever since. I guess you have to walk in their shoes to truly understand it. I see their point of view. Not everyone gets butterflies and tingles when they see the flag or hear the national anthem.

[*jason*]

I just read that Floyd Money Mayweather has offered to pay for George Floyd's funeral. Apparently there will be one in Houston, Minneapolis, North Carolina, and fourth at an unknown location. Mayweather's offered to cover all of them.

[BonnieBengal]

(06-01-2020, 09:24 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: He fought for freedom and the constitution of the United States of America, in which the very first one covers the right to protest. It helps bring about conversation around what we can do better as a society. If we are tone def to the issues of a race, how are we going to solve them? How are we going to educate ourselves, our kids, and others about this issue? They are rioting and looting because this issue is still happening. What makes you more upset, the rioting or the police brutality? Because you don't have rioting and looting if you don't have police brutality. Fix the root of the problem.

There is a right to protest and I totally support that, but don't tell me my uncle died to support rioting, violence, and destroying businesses and churches, because he did not.  You spit on his name saying things like that.  Chauvin showed excessive force and should be found guilty in a court of law and sent to prison.  That conviction and prison sentence will be justice for George Floyd, not the destroying of an unrelated business or setting fire to a church, or attacking other police officers.

[Hoofhearted]

(06-02-2020, 09:02 AM)BonnieBengal Wrote: There is a right to protest and I totally support that, but don't tell me my uncle died to support rioting, violence, and destroying businesses and churches, because he did not.  You spit on his name saying things like that.  Chauvin showed excessive force and should be found guilty in a court of law and sent to prison.  That conviction and prison sentence will be justice for George Floyd, not the destroying of an unrelated business or setting fire to a church, or attacking other police officers.

Sorry Bonnie, not trying to be rude, just having a conversation. He died protecting American lives and what America represents. I am sorry for your loss. I am prior military as well and have seen a couple of my brothers die in front of me while serving operation Iraqi freedom on the Theodore Roosevelt. One was thrown off the side of the ship from a plane, and one I seen his head crushed by a wave hitting the side of the ship. But you have to ask yourself why are they rioting, looting and destroying businesses? Is there something we are not listening, seeing or observing? Is there something that we as a society can do to listen and learn from what they are saying? Because I am more upset at the police brutality than the rioting and looting, because if we can stop having police brutality, this rioting doesn't happen.

[Sled21]

(06-01-2020, 11:02 PM)jason Wrote: I just read that Floyd Money Mayweather has offered to pay for George Floyd's funeral. Apparently there will be one in Houston, Minneapolis, North Carolina, and fourth at an unknown location. Mayweather's offered to cover all of them.

What, are the going to quarter him like William Wallace?

[*jason*]

(06-02-2020, 10:04 AM)Sled21 Wrote: What, are the going to quarter him like William Wallace?

Freedom!!!!

No... I guess they're just having services in all the places he's lived.

[JSR18]

(06-01-2020, 09:24 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: He fought for freedom and the constitution of the United States of America, in which the very first one covers the right to protest. It helps bring about conversation around what we can do better as a society. If we are tone def to the issues of a race, how are we going to solve them? How are we going to educate ourselves, our kids, and others about this issue? They are rioting and looting because this issue is still happening. What makes you more upset, the rioting or the police brutality? Because you don't have rioting and looting if you don't have police brutality. Fix the root of the problem.

The root of the problem is NOT Police brutality.

The root of the problem is an entire culture who think that laws don't pertain to them because they were made by people with different skin color.

Or a whole generation of white, black, brown or red 20 somethings who have never been told no in their entire lives until they encounter police or other authoritarian figures.

I will grant you that there are some very bad people that should not be carrying badges and enforcing laws. TS, the majority of police officers are good every day people just trying to do their jobs....

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[BonnieBengal]

(06-02-2020, 09:40 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Sorry Bonnie, not trying to be rude, just having a conversation. He died protecting American lives and what America represents. I am sorry for your loss. I am prior military as well and have seen a couple of my brothers die in front of me while serving operation Iraqi freedom on the Theodore Roosevelt. One was thrown off the side of the ship from a plane, and one I seen his head crushed by a wave hitting the side of the ship. But you have to ask yourself why are they rioting, looting and destroying businesses? Is there something we are not listening, seeing or observing? Is there something that we as a society can do to listen and learn from what they are saying? Because I am more upset at the police brutality than the rioting and looting, because if we can stop having police brutality, this rioting doesn't happen.

I'm sorry for your losses too.  However, when the riots include attacking, injuring, and even killing police officers, how do you justify that?  Now a retired African American Police Captain, David Dorn, has been murdered in cold blood during these riots.  Is he not as important as George Floyd? Where's the media outrage?  The crazy thing is, the majority agreed, Republican, Democrat, and Independent,  this was excessive force in the George Floyd case. The vast majority, including me, agreed the police officer Chauvin should be tried and convicted in a court of law.  I agree with peaceful protests, but what justice is it when the protesters against the murder of a black man start murdering black men? I strongly believe that Antifa is the group committing the majority of the violence for their own purposes, and they don't give a rat's ass about George Floyd or anything besides their own agenda.

[*bengalfan74*]

(06-03-2020, 07:57 AM)BonnieBengal Wrote: I'm sorry for your losses too.  However, when the riots include attacking, injuring, and even killing police officers, how do you justify that?  Now a retired African American Police Captain, David Dorn, has been murdered in cold blood during these riots.  Is he not as important as George Floyd? Where's the media outrage?  The crazy thing is, the majority agreed, Republican, Democrat, and Independent,  this was excessive force in the George Floyd case. The vast majority, including me, agreed the police officer Chauvin should be tried and convicted in a court of law.  I agree with peaceful protests, but what justice is it when the protesters against the murder of a black man start murdering black men? I strongly believe that Antifa is the group committing the majority of the violence for their own purposes, and they don't give a rat's ass about George Floyd or anything besides their own agenda.

Yep

And there's another portion of the "protesters" that could care less about it either. They're just out trying to gain free 70" TV's.

[Hoofhearted]

(06-03-2020, 07:57 AM)BonnieBengal Wrote: I'm sorry for your losses too.  However, when the riots include attacking, injuring, and even killing police officers, how do you justify that?  Now a retired African American Police Captain, David Dorn, has been murdered in cold blood during these riots.  Is he not as important as George Floyd? Where's the media outrage?  The crazy thing is, the majority agreed, Republican, Democrat, and Independent,  this was excessive force in the George Floyd case. The vast majority, including me, agreed the police officer Chauvin should be tried and convicted in a court of law.  I agree with peaceful protests, but what justice is it when the protesters against the murder of a black man start murdering black men? I strongly believe that Antifa is the group committing the majority of the violence for their own purposes, and they don't give a rat's ass about George Floyd or anything besides their own agenda.

There is no justifying those actions for those deaths. None. Peaceful protestors like MLK have died for their message they firmly believe in. There will certainly be people who take advantage of a situation for something other than change. Don't let what they're doing discredit the message of the masses. Just like the whole Kap kneeling situation. People bend over backwards to lash out at him while completely ignoring the message he's trying to convey. They're focus is on the wrong area. Maybe his methods are wrong, but why should we try to silence his message? Silence is a form of oppression, which is exactly the opposite of what we should be doing.

[Destro]

(06-02-2020, 10:49 PM)JSR18 Wrote: The root of the problem is an entire culture who think that laws don't pertain to them because they were made by people with different skin color.

The problem is the laws pertain to them so much more than others. Consequences are and have been greater and have been since the beginning. Dying slowly while handcuffed on the ground, by a representative of the government in the form of law enforcement on your neck, is not thinking the law does not pertain to you. The problem is accountability. If a looter can be thrown in prison for 2 years, someone one wearing a badge should be incarcerated for life for killing someone unjustly. Most LEOs are good people, but when the bad ones are rarely held to account, that's who the laws don't pertain to.

[fredtoast]

(06-03-2020, 07:57 AM)BonnieBengal Wrote:   The crazy thing is, the majority agreed, Republican, Democrat, and Independent,  this was excessive force in the George Floyd case. The vast majority, including me, agreed the police officer Chauvin should be tried and convicted in a court of law. 

Then explain why even though everyone had been seeing the same video for several days Chauvin was noit arrested or charged until after a coupl of nights of rioting.

If he had been properly arrested when the video came out then the rioting would not have been as bad.

[BonnieBengal]

(06-03-2020, 01:28 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Then explain why even though everyone had been seeing the same video for several days Chauvin was noit arrested or charged until after a coupl of nights of rioting.

If he had been properly arrested when the video came out then the rioting would not have been as bad.

That would be a question for the leadership there, all of whom are Democrats, including their attorney general.

[Mickeypoo]

(06-01-2020, 08:51 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: 100% agree

There's a time and a place to protest and during the national anthem is not the time.

1000% agree!!!!!!