Trade Candidates?

[Hoofhearted]

(06-02-2015, 08:22 AM)The Ben Richards Wrote: Because of his contract, Datdude might be the only player that is safe.

Fixed

[Murdock2420]

(06-02-2015, 08:22 AM)Ben Richards Wrote: Because of his contract, Votto might be the only player that is safe.

If he gets back to his old production level and the Reds accept a lesser prospect to shed the contract, he might still be movable. I could really still see Toronto going all in for him.

[hotweales]

(06-03-2015, 01:53 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: If he gets back to his old production level and the Reds accept a lesser prospect to shed the contract, he might still be movable. I could really still see Toronto going all in for him.

If an opportunity is there to move that contract and get young talent in return, the Reds have to take it.  The have painted themselves into a corner with too many big contracts.  It is time to move away from Jay Bruce, Joey Votto, Cueto, Chapman and unfortunately Phillips.  The Reds can not afford the contracts.  It is time to build around young talent and go from there, get what you can and move on.  These players were given an opportunity to be the corner stones of a team to be competitive, but strikeouts, no clutch hitting and a lack of focus spells the end.  I hate to see us lose Brandon, as I think he plays through injury, gives 110% and wants to win, but some of these other guys seem to sleep walk through the season. 

[Murdock2420]

(06-04-2015, 07:22 PM)hotweales Wrote: If an opportunity is there to move that contract and get young talent in return, the Reds have to take it.  The have painted themselves into a corner with too many big contracts.  It is time to move away from Jay Bruce, Joey Votto, Cueto, Chapman and unfortunately Phillips.  The Reds can not afford the contracts.  It is time to build around young talent and go from there, get what you can and move on.  These players were given an opportunity to be the corner stones of a team to be competitive, but strikeouts, no clutch hitting and a lack of focus spells the end.  I hate to see us lose Brandon, as I think he plays through injury, gives 110% and wants to win, but some of these other guys seem to sleep walk through the season. 

Exactly, it's sad but you have to just rebuild. Until baseball gets it together and gets a salary cap like every other major sport has, this is how small markets will have to survive. Grow them up, use them, and trade them for the next prospect. Even Frazier at age 29, would be a prime trade candidate right now.

[hotweales]

(06-04-2015, 08:19 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Exactly, it's sad but you have to just rebuild. Until baseball gets it together and gets a salary cap like every other major sport has, this is how small markets will have to survive. Grow them up, use them, and trade them for the next prospect. Even Frazier at age 29, would be a prime trade candidate right now.

Love your sig by the way.  I am with you, they need to go all in on the fire sale.  I would have no problem with seeing Frasier go if they get talent in return.  If they trade Cueto, Chapman and Frasier the talent in return should be close to MLB ready.  I would take a bag of baseballs and some bats for Jay Bruce at this point and I have to say that Votto has really made several defensive blunders this season.  Almost like he is not even in the game.  Jay Bruce gets caught stealing and picked off first the other night.  They sometimes look like little leaguers.  I believe that it is time for some organizational changes as well.  I believe that some of the big signings were owner driven and not Walt.  He did not do it in St. Louis, which tells me he knows what he is doing.  I mean he let Fat Albert walk.

[*bengalfan74*]

(06-06-2015, 10:24 PM)hotweales Wrote: Love your sig by the way.  I am with you, they need to go all in on the fire sale.  I would have no problem with seeing Frasier go if they get talent in return.  If they trade Cueto, Chapman and Frasier the talent in return should be close to MLB ready.  I would take a bag of baseballs and some bats for Jay Bruce at this point and I have to say that Votto has really made several defensive blunders this season.  Almost like he is not even in the game.  Jay Bruce gets caught stealing and picked off first the other night.  They sometimes look like little leaguers.  I believe that it is time for some organizational changes as well.  I believe that some of the big signings were owner driven and not Walt.  He did not do it in St. Louis, which tells me he knows what he is doing.  I mean he let Fat Albert walk.

Agree, at this point I'd take an up and coming bat boy for Jay Bruce. I'd love to see them deal Votto but I doubt there's going to be any takers. Cueto, Phillips, and Chapman can all go as well.

[Murdock2420]

(06-06-2015, 10:24 PM)hotweales Wrote: Love your sig by the way.  I am with you, they need to go all in on the fire sale.  I would have no problem with seeing Frasier go if they get talent in return.  If they trade Cueto, Chapman and Frasier the talent in return should be close to MLB ready.  I would take a bag of baseballs and some bats for Jay Bruce at this point and I have to say that Votto has really made several defensive blunders this season.  Almost like he is not even in the game.  Jay Bruce gets caught stealing and picked off first the other night.  They sometimes look like little leaguers.  I believe that it is time for some organizational changes as well.  I believe that some of the big signings were owner driven and not Walt.  He did not do it in St. Louis, which tells me he knows what he is doing.  I mean he let Fat Albert walk.

Appreciate the Sig love, Wile E has always been my favoirte. I'm with you on the return has to be major league ready. I love Frazier, and Cueto and it will suck to see them in a different uniform, but if the return is the right guys, players you build around for the next 5 to 6 years then pull that trigger. Get the young guys up here and let's see what they have, be done with Bruce, Votto, Sigh....even Phillips ( that kills me to say.) I'd rather watch a young team losing as they learn how to be major league ready, then see what we have right now. The team is sleep walking.

[McC]

(06-02-2015, 02:14 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: If you are the Reds, you honestly should be viewing pretty much everyone on the 25 man as available with very few exceptions. No need to trade the guys who just got brought up this year, but after I think only Mes should be safe. Votto to Toronto, Cueto to the highest bidder, same with Chapman. Hoover seems to be getting people out, so see if you can deal him. Phillips, Cozart, Byrd, Bruce, even Pena as much as I love the guy. If a team comes along, everyone is for sale for the right price. Get younger, get cheaper, and maybe get back on track in 2017.

Gotta add Frazier to the very short list of who to keep.

[*bengalfan74*]

(06-07-2015, 07:38 PM)McC Wrote: Gotta add Frazier to the very short list of who to keep.

Agree, I'd keep Frazier, Cozart, Hamilton, Mes, prolly Pena, couple of the young starters, to name a few.

[kevin]

(06-07-2015, 07:38 PM)McC Wrote: Gotta add Frazier to the very short list of who to keep.

Sure....people on here saying trade Frazier for youth...Frazier is youth......I mean, I hope they don't put the single A Dayton Dragons in Reds uniforms right out of high school. ......Frazier is a good young third baseman, his first full season playing was just last year with Rolen here in 2013. ...If the Reds start trading players that just came up for youth, then  it will be time to stop watching the Reds because that is just being way too cheap. 

Again, I hope they keep the younger players and that includes Frazier and yes, Chapman. Good third basemen that can hit and field are hard to find. The Reds were looking for years for a young defensive third that could hit, and now that they found one, people want to trade him. Reds looked for a good young closer for years and now that we have one, people want to trade him.....I understand the dumping payroll near last place, which was why I was always for dumping Ken Griffey Jr and iron gloves Dunn and EE.........but, if this team ever gets so cheap it is trying to field the cheapest team in baseball and getting rid of talent just as they get started, then at that point, perhaps it is time to just shut the franchise down and really go cheap. 

Frazier must stay. To trade all the players mentioned would mean at least 120 losses in 2016. You can watch that if you choose, I sure won't.  Frazier must stay. 

[hotweales]

Well statistically a MLB player starts to regress from age 28 to 33. Frazier is 29 and if they plan to get max value from him they would need to trade now. They could also sign him to a longer term deal, such as Votto and Bruce and have another player on the back side of his career, that is difficult to get rid of and deal with the years that his production drops. If they could get Sano, or say Gallo in return, you would have to take it. Both players will be September call ups and have 35+ home run potential.

[Hoofhearted]

(06-07-2015, 10:05 PM)kevin Wrote: Sure....people on here saying trade Frazier for youth...Frazier is youth......I mean, I hope they don't put the single A Dayton Dragons in Reds uniforms right out of high school. ......Frazier is a good young third baseman, his first full season playing was just last year with Rolen here in 2013. ...If the Reds start trading players that just came up for youth, then  it will be time to stop watching the Reds because that is just being way too cheap. 

Again, I hope they keep the younger players and that includes Frazier and yes, Chapman. Good third basemen that can hit and field are hard to find. The Reds were looking for years for a young defensive third that could hit, and now that they found one, people want to trade him. Reds looked for a good young closer for years and now that we have one, people want to trade him.....I understand the dumping payroll near last place, which was why I was always for dumping Ken Griffey Jr and iron gloves Dunn and EE.........but, if this team ever gets so cheap it is trying to field the cheapest team in baseball and getting rid of talent just as they get started, then at that point, perhaps it is time to just shut the franchise down and really go cheap. 

Frazier must stay. To trade all the players mentioned would mean at least 120 losses in 2016. You can watch that if you choose, I sure won't.  Frazier must stay. 

You dump a relief pitcher because they don't have no where near the value that most other positions have, simply because of the way they are used. Take a look at how the Cards handle the closer and bridge (setup) roles. They don't have stars there. Just good, serviceable pitchers. It's not the finances that are the issue; it's that the core of this team has been around for quite a few years now. What have they accomplished? A few WC berths? We simply need better players. Only way to do that is to essentially start over with new, younger pieces to develop. 

BTW - I think we will have a better team after watching some of these rookies in the very near future. If we get to 100 losses, we should get a top 3 pick and get ourselves a high quality prospect. If they are able to get lucky on a few pitchers for the Pen, they'll be solid in 2017. There starting rotation is almost set as it is now with the youngsters. 

[kevin]

It's good to hear Mesoraco playing left field in the minors, according to Jim Day doing Reds TV. ....The media is saying that the doctors are saying he won't be able to squat and catch again after this injury....I was thinking maybe first base, but they are trying to teach him left field. That could work also. We could use his bat back.

[PacMan Fever]

We're not gonna get anywhere while we're still paying Votto and Bailey. Perhaps lump Cueto/Bailey together in a deal and accept pennies on the $ for Votto??

[Trademark]

Wow this sucks if we trade Cueto :/ or Chapman, those are two of my favorite players on the Reds...........

Here's some updates:

Quote:The Giants are scouting Reds starting pitchers Johnny Cueto and Mike Leake, according to Fox Sports' Ken Rosenthal. Team officials were in attendance for Cueto's start against the Cubs on Friday, and stayed for Leake's Saturday outing.

Leake is set to make $9.775 million in his final year of salary arbitration. The 27-year-old is 3-4 with a 4.35 ERA and 48 strikeouts in 82 2/3 innings, but pitches in one of the most hitter-friendly parks in baseball.

ueto is the bigger name, but also will have a higher price tag. Numerous teams reportedly are interested in the 29-year-old with a 4-4 record and 2.85 ERA.

In addition to Cueto and Leake, the Reds have also been asked about closer Aroldis Chapman and second baseman Brandon Phillips, so it's likely at least one of those players will be moved before July 31.

“I would expect Walt (Jocketty, Reds general manager) to be looking for multiple good prospects and a player ready to play in the big leagues right now,’’ an official with an NL team said, according to the New York Post.

There are only a handful of teams that would have the firepower and be willing to do that, so Cueto will be the more difficult between the two to move. Leake, on the other hand, is a solid innings-eater who could, in the right ballpark, have a sub-four ERA.

http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb/story/2015-06-14/mlb-trade-rumors-johnny-cueto-mike-leake-giants-reds-trade-deadline?modid=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com&utm_source=desktop&utm_medium=desktop&utm_campaign=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com

Also apparently the Reds and Nationals have discussed a trade involving Chapman....

Quote:The Nationals and Reds have discussed a trade involving Aroldis Chapman, although no deal appears imminent, Jon Morosi of FOX Sports tweets. (In a separate tweet, Morosi characterizes the talks as “very preliminary.”) Earlier today, Morosi wrote that the Nationals were looking for late-inning bullpen help. Chapman would obviously fit the bill, even though the Nats don’t have any specific need for a closer in particular, with Drew Storen performing well.

The 27-year-old Chapman has struggled with his control a bit more this year than in years past, with 5.6 BB/9. As usual, though, his eye-popping stuff and strikeout numbers (14.8 K/9) have been more than enough to paper over any minor control issues. Chapman’s fastball remains otherworldly, clocking in at an average velocity of 99.5 MPH this year, and his slider is very much a plus pitch as well.

Chapman is making $8.05MM this season. He is eligible for free agency after 2016. Given his dominance, he represents a bargain at his current salary. The prospect cost the Reds could command for him ought to be substantial, particularly given that he has a year of control remaining beyond this one.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/06/nationals-reds-have-discussed-aroldis-chapman-trade.html

[hotweales]

Sean Marshall is making 6.5 million this season and it is the last year of his contract. They could afford to keep Chapman if they want, but top closers are making 13 million a year. Do you spend that much on a team in 4th place? A guy like Huston Street is only making 7 million. Trade Chapman for a King's ransom and sign a cheaper closer. You are not going to seriously compete for a couple years.

[*michaelsean*]

Sean Marshall should be arrested for grand theft.

And Frazier will be 30 before the 2016 season starts. That's not old, but it ain't young either.

[kevin]

It's not football where you go for youth.....When Pete Rose came back as manager the Reds stunk. Pete brought in veteran players such as Bell and Diaz. The Reds went from last place into 2nd place. Now the gambling makes Pete the worst manager ever, which is a shame because he had some good ideas about the game. ...Frazier right now is the Reds best power hitter. Reds have been looking for a right handed power hitting third baseman for years, and now that we have one, people want him traded. Going into 2016, Frazier is our best power hitter, very strong, and plays good D at third. He is years away from retiring as he enters his 30's. .....For all the kids out there, 30 isn't old, and also, you don't field a team of kids out of high school unless you want to lose 162 games. Experience counts.

Sadly, I can see the Cueto trade, with the Reds going nowhere this year and near last place all season, never really in it ever, a very boring season. I would expect a very top prospect in return for Cueto since we would maybe be handing some team the World Series. Cueto can be Bob Gibson or Luis Tiant like and added to a good team would make them a great team. For such a player, I expect Reds to get much in return, such as a player in the minor league All-Star Game. ....Phillips age makes him a possible trade if a play-off team wants a second baseman batting around .300 and plays Gold Glove D. .....

This isn't football and you can't pull the all youth movement in baseball. If we keep Chapman we are solid at closer. If we keep Frazier and most of the team, we have a team for a new start next April......This isn't football where you talk about playing a bunch of rookies. In baseball, you don't get rid of a Frazier because the Reds are in dire need of him and he has many years ahead, as does Chapman. .....The Reds or Bengals could try to field the lowest paid teams of all time, greed, greed, greed....but they would get destroyed. The city of Cincinnati deserves better than cheap, cheap, cheap......Castallini is not as cheap as Marge or Daddy Warbucks Lindner who both would come out before seasons and tell fans, " Don't expect anything but last place this year Honey's. I had to go cheap "......Castallini spends money on the Reds, bringing back the Hall of Fame voting and building a great Reds Hall of Fame and taking a very generic GABP of Lindner and spending money to make it a great ball park. The park honors Reds legends now with statues and Nuxhall's words in light. The Reds Hall Of Fame was stopped by Marge and she fired the scouts saying all they do is watch baseball. Lindner was just as cheap, cheap, cheap.....Castallini spends money bringing back Reds Hall of Fame and scouts and I will be very surprised if he gets rid of Frazier and goes as cheap as some of you are talking. That is the old cheap owners past who had no business in baseball, not Castallini who Pete Rose says he would love to play for and would run through a fire for. ....I can't see Castallini going as cheap as some on here think. He isn't Marge and he isn't Lindner. ( Yes, Marge won a World Series, with a lot of help and pushing from Lou and Howsom. For the most part, Marge was pretty cheap and Lindner who had more money was every bit as cheap. ) Castallini is great and why Great American Ball Park and it's Hall Of Fame is so nice now and why baseball is bringing back the All-Star Game. MLB got pretty upset at how cheap Marge did the last All-Star Game in Cincy. The Commish office was really ticked off at her cheap handling of the mid summer classic. .....Castallini is why the All Star Game is back because he has really improved GABP from the clunker it was when it opened. ......So I don't see him going as cheap as some of you think.

[hotweales]

(06-16-2015, 07:55 PM)kevin Wrote: It's not football where you go for youth.....When Pete Rose came back as manager the Reds stunk. Pete brought in veteran players such as Bell and Diaz.  The Reds went from last place into 2nd place. Now the gambling makes Pete the worst manager ever, which is a shame because he had some good ideas about the game. ...Frazier right now is the Reds best power hitter. Reds have been looking for a right handed power hitting third baseman for years, and now that we have one, people want him traded. Going into 2016, Frazier is our best power hitter, very strong, and plays good D at third. He is years away from retiring as he enters his 30's. .....For all the kids out there, 30 isn't old, and also, you don't field a team of kids out of high school unless you want to lose 162 games.  Experience counts.

Sadly, I can see the Cueto trade, with the Reds going nowhere this year and near last place all season, never really in it  ever, a very boring season.  I would expect a very top prospect in return for Cueto since we would maybe be handing some team the World Series. Cueto can be Bob Gibson or Luis Tiant like and added to  a good team would make them a great team. For such a player, I expect Reds to get much in return, such as a player in the minor league All-Star Game. ....Phillips age makes him a possible trade if a play-off team wants a second baseman batting around .300 and plays Gold Glove D. .....

This isn't football and you can't pull the all youth movement in baseball. If we keep Chapman we are solid at closer. If we keep Frazier and most of the team, we have a team for a new start next April......This isn't football where you talk about playing a bunch of rookies. In baseball, you don't get rid of a Frazier because the Reds are in dire need of him and he has many years ahead, as does Chapman. .....The Reds or Bengals could try to field the lowest paid teams of all time, greed, greed, greed....but they would get destroyed.  The city of Cincinnati deserves better than cheap, cheap, cheap......Castallini is not as cheap as Marge or Daddy Warbucks Lindner who both would come out before seasons and tell fans, " Don't expect anything but last place this year Honey's. I had to go cheap "......Castallini spends money on the Reds, bringing back the Hall of Fame voting and building a great Reds Hall of Fame and taking a very generic GABP of Lindner and spending money to make it a great ball park.  The park honors Reds legends now with statues and Nuxhall's words in light. The Reds Hall Of Fame was stopped by Marge and she fired the scouts saying all they do is watch baseball. Lindner was just as cheap, cheap, cheap.....Castallini spends money bringing back Reds Hall of Fame and scouts and I will be very surprised if he gets rid of Frazier and goes as cheap as some of you are talking. That is the old cheap owners past who had no business in baseball, not Castallini who Pete Rose says he would love to play for and would run through a fire for. ....I can't see Castallini going as cheap as some on here think. He isn't Marge and he isn't Lindner.  ( Yes, Marge won a World Series, with a lot of help and pushing from Lou and Howsom.  For the most part, Marge was pretty cheap and Lindner who had more money  was every bit as cheap. )  Castallini is great and why Great American Ball Park and it's Hall Of Fame is so nice now and why baseball is bringing back the All-Star Game. MLB got pretty upset at how cheap Marge did the last All-Star Game in Cincy.  The Commish office was really ticked off at her cheap handling of the mid summer classic. .....Castallini is why the All Star Game is back because he has really improved GABP from the clunker it was when it opened. ......So I don't see him going as cheap as some of you think.

I don't think you get what we are saying.  I would in no way go cheap, but I don't think you are going to compete for a few years.  The Reds tied themselves to a couple of contracts that constrict them from doing much.  The pitching staff has to be improved and the bull pen is a mess.  In order to do that the Reds need to be willing to use some of their valuable trade chips.  Those chips are Cueto, Leak, Frazier, Chapman and maybe Phillips.  I don't see any team wanting the boat anchor that is Jay Bruce and Votto's contract will be tough to move.  The Reds still would have a right handed power bat in Mez.  I would rather keep Frazier, but he is as good as gone after his contract is up. 

[McC]

(06-17-2015, 12:19 AM)hotweales Wrote: I don't think you get what we are saying.  I would in no way go cheap, but I don't think you are going to compete for a few years.  The Reds tied themselves to a couple of contracts that constrict them from doing much.  The pitching staff has to be improved and the bull pen is a mess.  In order to do that the Reds need to be willing to use some of their valuable trade chips.  Those chips are Cueto, Leak, Frazier, Chapman and maybe Phillips.  I don't see any team wanting the boat anchor that is Jay Bruce and Votto's contract will be tough to move.  The Reds still would have a right handed power bat in Mez.  I would rather keep Frazier, but he is as good as gone after his contract is up. 

29 or not, I'd have a very hard time trading a guy sailing into his prime with a good glove and an ever-improving bat and a great face for your franchise.

Let me put it this way, somebody would REALLY have to to blow me away to convince me.  It would kill me to see him go somewhere else and be an MVP.

All the rest, yes, without a doubt.

I believe Frazier is worth more here than what you get in return.