(08-05-2020, 02:46 PM)lone bengal Wrote: Agree I think Ross could surprise some people this year, he’s never gonna live up to being picked over Maholmes but I think he can still be a dangerous WR. His biggest issue is staying healthy. He just wasn’t a fast guy with a little production coming out of college he put up numbers. I still think of that Seattle opener where Ross went off , he should have a bunch of miss matches this year and he’s still one of are only WR’s with speed.
Yeah. And I think he's got the right QB to take a step or two forward. Obviously, I don't know Ross. Based on the interviews I've seen of him, he seems like a really nice kid. (I'm 60, so I guess I can call him "kid."). He does seem a little psychologically fragile. He certainly let Marvin get to him, and shake his confidence. Plus, he's had the injury issues. I just think alot of things rattled him his first couple of years. I don't think Andy helped him much, but I won't get into all that. I'll just say that Andy had alot of strengths, but he's not the kind of leader that Burrow is. Burrow's got more of that "it" factor that can resonate throughout the entire team. I really look for us to be a different team mentally this year. And we're already loaded with high character guys. Maybe Vonn Bell will be THAT GUY on the defensive side of the ball, as well.
Today I'm TEAM SEWELL. Tomorrow TEAM PITTS. Maybe TEAM CHASE. I can't decide, and glad I don't have to.
(08-05-2020, 12:44 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Then that means you're going to have an awfuly disappointing season from either Green, Higgins, or Boyd.
There's simply not enough balls to go around. For Ross to have a legitimate season it's probably going to mean at least 800 yards and 5 TD's. Those yards and TD's are going to have to come at the expense of others that are currently projected to be bigger contributors.
Think of it this way, if the follow players hit these numbers, what's left?
AJ Green - 1,000 yards
Tyler Boyd - 1,000 yards
Tee Higgins - 600 yards
Mixon/Bernard - 600 yards
Uzomah/Sample - 600 yards
Misc (Tate/Willis/Carter/Erickson) - 250 yards
Total - 4,050 yards
Those are all pretty conservative benchmarks. The numbers out of the running backs and TE spots are basically pulled from our averages over the last few seasons. The misc. number is probably low.
It's really easy to say "I think AJ is back, and has a good season", "I think Boyd keeps his numbers up", "I think Tee Higgins has a productive first year", etc. But when you start looking at the actual numbers it will take for all of that to happen, there's simply nothing left for Ross to do on a large scale.
So you have to take your pick, is it he has a good season and we all want him back, but one of these other guys really underperforms? Or is John Ross doesn't do a whole lot, and ends up with under 400 yards? You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Good points, and they're well taken. BUT...it is possible that we have 3 receivers with 1000 yards. It's happened before. 5 times before.
And there've been eleven times when trios of receivers on the samne team got 900 yards or more.
(08-05-2020, 01:43 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I honestly don't think anything is going to fix Ross. Bad pick, just have to move on from it.
If he wasn't working hard at getting better, I'd agree with you. But we do see him putting in alot of effort working with TJ and working with Burrow. He might be doing more, I'm not sure. But he's not content with his own record. That says something. Gives me reason to hope anyway.
Today I'm TEAM SEWELL. Tomorrow TEAM PITTS. Maybe TEAM CHASE. I can't decide, and glad I don't have to.
(08-05-2020, 07:22 PM)bfine32 Wrote: To the sidebar: 15 players in the NFL had 150 PR yards or more in the NFL last year. Of those 50 Erickson had by far the worst YPR. Also only 2 PRs in the NFL had more fumbles than Erickson. He was also top 10 in fair catches. If we aren't looking at getting better at PR then we should and I have a feeling Simmons is.
And what happened to coincide with that drop in production last year? Was there not a pretty big turnover on special teams last year or 2? A returner is only as good as his blockers. I think Erickson has shown when his ST mates do their job, he is plenty capable as a returner. He didn't lead the AFC one year by accident.
(08-05-2020, 04:51 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Where do you see Green, Boyd and Higgins ending up if Ross hits your mark?
I answered this on your separate thread as well, and I know you didn't ask me. However, I think this "there are only so many balls to go around" thought, while literally true, should go out the window.
For one thing, they have openly described what Burrow likes best: 5 man protection with 3 WR, a TE, and a RB in a pattern. Spread the defense out and attack them. Not saying the Bengals won't begin games run-heavy, but you know they will be giving Joe the entire playbook and he will be airing it out. I think we may finally see something I always argued about with Marvin: keeping your foot on the gas. It seems really simple, but I remember hearing Brady say "we try to score every time we get the ball", and he never looks at the scoreboard.
Now, they may not have many opportunities to "run it up", but I see the defense as needing a few games to get in sync and the offense having to air it out to stay in games, especially with all the new moving pieces and no preseason.
Mixon only had 35 receptions for a measly 287 yards. I could see that number of receptions reaching 60 and yardage over 600.
Ross would likely not have the highest number of receptions, but will have his best YPR in 2020. In just 8 games last year, he had over 500 yards and he maintained his pace of a TD every 5th reception. I could see him having something like 40 receptions but 850 yards and 8 TDs.
Green and Boyd, if healthy, are 1000 yard producers. Higgins will most likely be brought along slowly, unless injury forces him in sooner, but by the year's end I could see him starting to be utilized more in Red Zone packages. I see him only getting around 250-350 yards.
I have ridiculous faith in Burrow. When I see Baker Mayfield's 3,725 yards in 14 games, I think Burrow could actually exceed 4500 yards this year. One of the biggest challenges will be the division foes he faces. They have some of the better defenses in the league.
Right now, it seems like the universe is trying to make it as hard as possible on Burrow, without a preseason and OTAs. If it was almost any other QB, I would be worried. If those guys are healthy, they are going to explode and it will look like 2015 when the WRs were all making plays.
(08-05-2020, 05:22 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I saw it more then once. Sure some of Andy's deep throws weren't pretty or perfect, but Ross wouldn't even reach up for the ball or he'd quit running full speed and I can't think of a single time I have seen him lay out for a catch.
Just want to see effort, and he never seems to really show that.
This lack of effort here is just pathetic...
The CB knocks him slightly off his route and he quits running and quits looking for the ball. That is inexcusable.
While I remember this play vividly, can you show another example of this since this play? Of in the last year? I saw the kid fight for balls. That was the point he was trying to make.
(08-05-2020, 05:38 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: More great video of John Ross just dropping balls and not finishing a route.
So... this is not over-blown, this is a trend.
We could make a video of AJ Green doing the same thing. I remember him bobbling a perfect pass right in to peanut Tillman's arms for a game-losing INT week 1.
It highlighted one big drop against Seattle in week 1 last year and showed it four times. He did go on to destroy Seattle that game.
This is his make-or-break year. Not just as a Bengal, but if he wants to start in the league and get an additional contract, if he isn't able to do it with Joe Burrow and other talent on the field like Boyd and Green, he won't get anywhere near the deal he is probably going to get if he stays on his projected path.
Maybe we need a "Ross only" thread, so we can revisit it.
(08-06-2020, 08:48 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: We could make a video of AJ Green doing the same thing. I remember him bobbling a perfect pass right in to peanut Tillman's arms for a game-losing INT week 1.
It highlighted one big drop against Seattle in week 1 last year and showed it four times. He did go on to destroy Seattle that game.
This is his make-or-break year. Not just as a Bengal, but if he wants to start in the league and get an additional contract, if he isn't able to do it with Joe Burrow and other talent on the field like Boyd and Green, he won't get anywhere near the deal he is probably going to get if he stays on his projected path.
Maybe we need a "Ross only" thread, so we can revisit it.
I am saying 40 receptions, 850 yards, and 8 TDs.
Maybe only 2 or 3 games have I ever been MORE angry than I was after that game (and not just the bobble; the other pick, he could've had it/knocked it out, but AJ let the play be); heavily pissed me off, we should've won by 20 and Andy was on point the whole day.
(08-05-2020, 04:55 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Cedric Ogbuehi,
WJ3,
John Ross,
Billy Price,
Jonah Williams,
Looks like our 1st round picks in general have just been duds recently. Could make the argument Ross is the 2nd most productive on that list so far... I expect Jonah to change that narrative tho.
(08-06-2020, 12:58 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Wouldn't call WJ3 a dud
He's not a dud but has regressed a bit. He really needs to do a better job of being a ball hawk. Darius Phillips had .more picks last year than Jackson has had for his career. He's not even the best CB in the North.
He's easily behind Ward Peters and Haden
WJIII is a beast in man coverage, but struggles in zone, which is why Marvin was slow to play him as a rookie. Hopefully Lou can help him improve that part of his game.
(08-06-2020, 11:43 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Maybe only 2 or 3 games have I ever been MORE angry than I was after that game (and not just the bobble; the other pick, he could've had it/knocked it out, but AJ let the play be); heavily pissed me off, we should've won by 20 and Andy was on point the whole day.
And I remember people killing Dalton for 2 INTs. I was thinking maybe he should have just handed the ball to him.
(08-04-2020, 10:57 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Looks HUGE. Liked this pick from the start, but I’m getting more and more excited about this kid.
I think Higgy baby could help out all of our Receivers, even AJ. He is the same size as AJ and has even better hands.
Might of not been as physical off the Line as AJ is but that could very well change with the looks of it.
Ross has worked with Burrow more than any of our WR's this season I heard. Hope he finally helps me out while I have been
holding the torch for the guy since before we even drafted him. Burrow and Higgy should really help out Ross if he can stay
healthy. Burrow is the alpha on this team now and our new leader, he is not soft spoken nor is he a pushover.
So much talent for Burrow to work with it is insane.
(08-05-2020, 10:25 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I know you’re exaggerating, but he’s only played in 24 games. Which is pretty crazy. You can talk about the mental side of the game, giving up on routes, drops, etc but the main thing that has held Ross back at the NFL level is inability to stay healthy.
I was exaggerating some, but not much. Ross has been with the team for 48 games. He's only played in 24 and he's only had a catch in 21. That's a lot of games with nothing from the #9 overall pick, 27 games of zeros + a fumble. Laugh
Of course, there was that one great game. Yet, I don't see how that one game (a loss) can even begin to make up for all that nothing we've seen from the guy.
Remember that Redskins SB where Timmy Smith set the all-time SB record with 204 rushing yards? Yeah, that was his career game before he faded away.
(08-06-2020, 08:48 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: We could make a video of AJ Green doing the same thing. I remember him bobbling a perfect pass right in to peanut Tillman's arms for a game-losing INT week 1.
It highlighted one big drop against Seattle in week 1 last year and showed it four times. He did go on to destroy Seattle that game.
This is his make-or-break year. Not just as a Bengal, but if he wants to start in the league and get an additional contract, if he isn't able to do it with Joe Burrow and other talent on the field like Boyd and Green, he won't get anywhere near the deal he is probably going to get if he stays on his projected path.
Maybe we need a "Ross only" thread, so we can revisit it.
I am saying 40 receptions, 850 yards, and 8 TDs.
Ah, not really. AJ may have as many bad plays in his entire career as Ross does in his 24 played games. Maybe.
But if you were to put the stellar plays of each player next to the others it would be AJ 80 and Ross < 5. Ross just ain't the future of this franchise.
(08-06-2020, 07:48 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Ah, not really. AJ may have as many bad plays in his entire career as Ross does in his 24 played games. Maybe.
But if you were to put the stellar plays of each player next to the others it would be AJ 80 and Ross < 5. Ross just ain't the future of this franchise.
I never said Ross is the future of this franchise, but that highlight reel is just an exaggeration of his issues. It wasn't like his coach was really in his corner when he started and he had injury problems. And your reference to their entire careers is accurate, but what about the last two years? Not as big a difference. I will judge Ross what he does for ZT and last year was a positive step.
There is this little matter of Ross being in the final year of a 4 year, $17 million dollar contract. Green is scheduled to make $18 million this year.
Burrow will likely be the best thing to ever happen to Ross in stripes, although I bet Ross ends up somewhere else next year. There aren't too many situations I can see where Ross signs here after having his fifth year option declined. About the only way I see that happening is if Tee Higgins balls out and AJ struggles with health again. That, and Ross having a great year. That would put AJ's contract dollars in Ross's pocket, although he may STILL desire to try his luck in FA. Unless he really loves Burrow.
(08-06-2020, 07:05 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I think Higgy baby could help out all of our Receivers, even AJ. He is the same size as AJ and has even better hands.
(08-07-2020, 08:18 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I never said Ross is the future of this franchise, but that highlight reel is just an exaggeration of his issues. It wasn't like his coach was really in his corner when he started and he had injury problems. And your reference to their entire careers is accurate, but what about the last two years? Not as big a difference. I will judge Ross what he does for ZT and last year was a positive step.
There is this little matter of Ross being in the final year of a 4 year, $17 million dollar contract. Green is scheduled to make $18 million this year.
Burrow will likely be the best thing to ever happen to Ross in stripes, although I bet Ross ends up somewhere else next year. There aren't too many situations I can see where Ross signs here after having his fifth year option declined. About the only way I see that happening is if Tee Higgins balls out and AJ struggles with health again. That, and Ross having a great year. That would put AJ's contract dollars in Ross's pocket, although he may STILL desire to try his luck in FA. Unless he really loves Burrow.
There are a number of teams Ross could be a serious #2 WR
For. Jets. Gisnts. Redsskins.. Ross will garner alot of intrest in the 2021 off season.
You dont average a TD every 4.9 catches by accident.
Ross is the only WR on the Bengsls that can simply catch it and if he gets on a step on a CB it's a TD.
He doesnt have to build up speed like some WRs.
He could use better schematics in getting the ball in his hands.
Look how Shanny uses Deebo Samuel.it's not complicated
I think Higgins could really contribute sooner than later. He has the QB and culture to accelerate
His 1st year journey . best thing is he's not pressed into being the focal point of the passing game
He can take in all the learning ..play loose and enjoy the process
I'm sure Burrow will happily stay after hours to work with him.
With Burrow being single and no family it wold not surprise me plus his desire to be great
![[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]](https://i.imgur.com/4CV0TeR.png)
![[Image: Truck_1_0_1_.png]](https://card.psnprofiles.com/2/Truck_1_0_1_.png)
![[Image: EemSHxMXkAADa7X?format=png&name=medium]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EemSHxMXkAADa7X?format=png&name=medium)
