Carlos speaks out about Racism and Bengals

[McC]

It's a very complex situation but a simple situation too.

Racism and prejudice has existed since the dawn of man all over the globe. It has always existed and it always will. It can't be talked away and it can't be legislated away. And it can't be hated away either.

The whole thing exploded with the George Floyd murder. Well, other than a lot of talk and destruction and looting of property belonging to people who had nothing to do with it, what exactly has changed that actually addresses the problem? Have politicians taken action or have they tweeted angry diatribes and gone back to their reelection campaigns? Where are all the new laws and procedures that will once and for all stop all this?

Seems to me, this is all about police departments. Extremists say get rid of police departments. That is obviously ludicrous. A society without law enforcement would be doomed. That is clearly not a solution to anything.

So, how do you change police departments? The very nature of the job means you will have a lot of the wrong kind of individuals pursuing law enforcement as a career. You get to carry a gun and have power over people. Do you really want people who are drawn by this on police forces? But, can you have enough cops without this type of individual?

How do you vet applicants in a way that will expose this aspect of someone's personality? How do you simulate the conditions, create the stress that will cause bad responses to show themselves in the field during psychological evaluations and training? It's probably next to impossible.

The public reacts to these incidents with anger and rightfully so. They want answers and they want them now and rightfully so.

But the real problem is there is no right now answer. Has Mike Brown done enough? I really don't know. But what is enough and who has done enough? Plenty of anger, plenty of words, lots of arguments, no action at all. Until it stops being nothing more than a political talking point and starts being a call to action by both sides of the political spectrum, nothing will change and the divide just keeps getting deeper and deeper. Stomping feet on this side or that side and pointing fingers or blowing shit up isn't the solution.

I don't know what the solution is but I do know that there is no solution form this side or that side. It has to be both sides coming together in the middle. I see and hear a lot of finger pointing and accusations and a helluva lot of anger. What I don't see or hear is the call for understanding and unity.

[Wes Mantooth]

I went back through the last 3 pages and ran some numbers... Fred had posted or been quoted a total of 39 times. (Fwiw, 22 of these were his posts) This is out of total of 60 posts.

This means 65% of the content you have read is related to a single poster.

Like or dislike Fred, agree or disagree with him, IMHO this is a bit much. Regardless of the subject. I respect differing opinions and debate as much as the next person, but it kinda sucks when one single person takes over a thread.

[Wes Mantooth]

(08-26-2020, 05:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yep.  Pretty weird reply from the very person who "guaranteed" Dunlap's story was BS and had nothing to do with racism.

This is what I said...

Wes Mantooth

I can almost guarantee there is more to that story.

[sandwedge]

(08-26-2020, 04:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No they did not.  Just the blacks and the mixed groups had to leave.  The group of all white guys were allowed to continue practicing.

So, not joking at all.

How do you know the white guys didn't reserve the field they were on? You don't. Calling people racist without facts or a clue of what actually happened is a very childish.

[Wes Mantooth]

I was curious about what effects Covid may have on this situation. I found this on the Ft. Lauderdale Parks page:

Park users are required to follow the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) personal hygiene guidelines which include using a hand sanitizer that contains at least 60% alcohol; avoiding touching your eyes, nose, and mouth with unwashed hands; avoiding close contact with people who are sick; maintaining six feet of distance between yourself and others; covering your mouth and nose with a cloth face cover when around others; and staying home if you are sick.

Could it be that maybe they didn't want one field occupied by three different groups, and that's why they asked the players to move?

Remember, they weren't asked to leave the park, they were asked to move on to another field. Maybe, just maybe, there was simply too many people grouped together and that was the reasoning was behind the request.

Just something to think about, in addition to the potential of reservations being considered, time allotments, etc.

[Bilbo Saggins]

Some of you guys are falling for the bait.  Carlos is being a brave man here, and he's earned the right to throw his weight around.  Let's not sensationalize anything.  He was preaching a message to encourage a vision which he believes in.  Dunlap is one of my all-time favorite Bengals and he's displayed character here more than anything.  I could care less about journalistic distortions or how some people accept the message.  I could care less how some of the fans or ownership take the message.  Carlos Dunlap is agitating a logical response here without hurting anyone.  I'm proud of what he said and I'm proud to root for Carlos Dunlap!

[Sled21]

(08-26-2020, 05:58 PM)McC Wrote: Seems to me, this is all about police departments.  

So, how do you change police departments?   

And this is why the problem will never be solved. People want to lay all the blame on police departments (Not you specifically McC, but in general)
Are there bad cops, racist cops, etc., of course there are, and they should be weeded out. But no one wants to talk about the elephant in the room, which is the general public. People want to break the law, live the "gansta" lifestyle, and then when they get caught they want to resist, fight, and shoot at the police. And then act surprised when the police hurt them. It's not the police that need retrained, it is the public.

[fredtoast]

(08-26-2020, 08:39 PM)sandwedge Wrote: How do you know the white guys didn't reserve the field they were on? 

Because Dunlap asked the officer for an explanation and got nothing.

[Sled21]

(08-27-2020, 09:04 AM)fredtoast Wrote: So you don't think Derek Chauvin did anything wrong when he killed George Floyd?

And what about all the other vides of police using force against innocent people that were not resisting?  You don't have any problems with any of them?

Derek Chauvin should have moved Floyd off of his stomach onto his side, and they should have called for EMS quicker.  That is what they should have done. Poor police work.  George Floyd, who had heart disease, ingested methamphetamine, caffeine, and a dosage of Fentanyl 4 times the lethal level. Then he resisted arrest and fought the police for approximately 15 minutes because he didn't want to get in the car and go to jail. His system melted down, he was dead from the moment he swallowed those drugs. The officers even asked him if he had ingested anything when they were struggling with him because of his behavior. Autopsy confirms there was no damage to his neck or throat. That is what George Floyd should have NOT done.
And you're going to have to point to a specific video, not throw a generality out there.

[*pally*]

How can you hear the pain Black people are going through and dismiss it as nothing. How can you hear the pain and respond with anything other than “I stand with you.”

— Joey Burrow (@JoeyB) August 27, 2020

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(08-27-2020, 09:54 AM)pally Wrote:

How can you hear the pain Black people are going through and dismiss it as nothing. How can you hear the pain and respond with anything other than “I stand with you.”

— Joey Burrow (@JoeyB) August 27, 2020

Whether people want to agree with/listen to him or not, the man has got a charisma and a cognizance about him that is beyond well-developed, for a 23 year old.

[Bengalfan4life27c]

Those that aren't supportive of Carlos or BLM might not want to watch Bengals this season. Because this season will be political if you don't like it's your right not to watch. I prefer to support the players and their cause so I will continue to watch and root for the Bengals.

[fredtoast]

(08-27-2020, 04:28 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Those that aren't supportive of Carlos or BLM might not want to watch Bengals this season. Because this season will be political if you don't like it's your right not to watch. I prefer to support the players and their cause so I will continue to watch and root for the Bengals.

I am pretty sure you can watch a football game without there being any political influence.  Just avoid all the interviews and media stuff if it bothers you.

I don't like it when Christian ball players act like they excelled because God favored them over their opponents, but I don't let it keep me from watching sports.  They are just stating their beliefs, and it does not effect the game.

[*pally*]

Bengals WR A.J. Green said the team discussed not practicing today with the leadership group. "We had some great discussions this morning." Will have a bigger session tomorrow with more players.

— Ben Baby (@Ben_Baby) August 27, 2020

A.J. Green on Joe Burrow's tweet from earlier today: "That's what you want to see. You want to see that quarterback position step up because those are guys that drive our league." https://t.co/3oIqYT8H6J

— Ben Baby (@Ben_Baby) August 27, 2020

[JSR18]

(08-27-2020, 08:22 AM)Sled21 Wrote: And this is why the problem will never be solved. People want to lay all the blame on police departments (Not you specifically McC, but in general)
Are there bad cops, racist cops, etc., of course there are, and they should be weeded out. But no one wants to talk about the elephant in the room, which is the general public. People want to break the law, live the "gansta" lifestyle, and then when they get caught they want to resist, fight, and shoot at the police. And then act surprised when the police hurt them. It's not the police that need retrained, it is the public.

This! Finally somebody gets it! Kudos to you sir.

This and rooting out of bad Police Officers is the only solution to this problem...

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-27-2020, 04:28 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Those that aren't supportive of Carlos or BLM might not want to watch Bengals this season. Because this season will be political if you don't like it's your right not to watch. I prefer to support the players and their cause so I will continue to watch and root for the Bengals.

Look at the ratings of the NBA falling.

If players are smart they will take their opinions out of it. Just play the game and earn a paycheck please...

A big damn paycheck in the greatest country in history.

[Bengalfan4life27c]

(08-27-2020, 06:39 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Look at the ratings of the NBA falling.

If players are smart they will take their opinions out of it. Just play the game and earn a paycheck please...

A big damn paycheck in the greatest country in history.

the NBA ratings have been steadily increasing. They were Regular season games at first ratings always pick up further you go into the playoffs.

[EatonFan]

(08-27-2020, 06:28 PM)JSR18 Wrote: This! Finally somebody gets it! Kudos to you sir.

This and rooting out of bad Police Officers is the only solution to this problem...

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

There really are not that many bad cops, but yes the public needs to be educated.

[CJD]

(08-26-2020, 05:58 PM)McC Wrote: It's a very complex situation but a simple situation too.  

Racism and prejudice has existed since the dawn of man all over the globe.  It has always existed and it always will.   It can't be talked away and it can't be legislated away.  And it can't be hated away either.  

The whole thing exploded with the George Floyd murder.  Well, other than a lot of talk and destruction and looting of property belonging to people who had nothing to do with it, what exactly has changed that actually addresses the problem?  Have politicians taken action or have they tweeted angry diatribes and gone back to their reelection campaigns?   Where are all the new laws and procedures that will once and for all stop all this?

Seems to me, this is all about police departments.  Extremists say get rid of police departments.  That is obviously ludicrous.  A society without law enforcement would be doomed.  That is clearly not a solution to anything.

So, how do you change police departments?   The very nature of the job means you will have a lot of the wrong kind of individuals pursuing law enforcement as a career.  You get to carry a gun and have power over people.  Do you really want people who are drawn by this on police forces?  But, can you have enough cops without this type of individual?

How do you vet applicants in a way that will expose this aspect of someone's personality?  How do you simulate the conditions, create the stress that will cause bad responses to show themselves in the field during psychological evaluations and training?  It's probably next to impossible.

The public reacts to these incidents with anger and rightfully so.  They want answers and they want them now and rightfully so.

But the real problem is there is no right now answer.  Has Mike Brown done enough?  I really don't know.  But what is enough and who has done enough?  Plenty of anger, plenty of words, lots of arguments, no action at all.  Until it stops being nothing more than a political talking point and starts being a call to action by both sides of the political spectrum, nothing will change and the divide just keeps getting deeper and deeper.  Stomping feet on this side or that side and pointing fingers or blowing shit up isn't the solution.

I don't know what the solution is but I do know that there is no solution form this side or that side.  It has to be both sides coming together in the middle.  I see and hear a lot of finger pointing and accusations and a helluva lot of anger.  What I don't see or hear is the call for understanding and unity.

I think the simplest way of "weeding out the bad ones," as it were, would be to make being a police officer a generally desirable job.

If you look at policing on the whole, it's not a very desirable job, especially in the current political climate. The pay is mediocre at best (and in a lot of cases, below average), it's relatively dangerous, you have to deal with a lot of really shitty people (drunks, addicts, criminals etc) and, more recently, you're treated like you're corrupt even if you aren't (at least actively corrupt. They are all to blame for the blue wall of silence.)

Like you said, one of the only perks of being a police officer is that you get to have authority over people. Which, to be honest, isn't supposed to be a perk, it's supposed to be a responsibility. And "with great power, comes great responsibility" definitely should apply here. But what ends up happening is that the low benefits outside of this added authority makes the job more attractive to people who should not be given authority.

This has led to a pretty tricky situation nationwide. Essentially, the low desirability of the job has made it hard to hold a standard for police. Over the last decade, recruitment is WAY down and the attrition rate for police officers is higher than both nursing and teaching, two groups that constantly get attention for how few of them there are. And that's not to mention the fact that, in addition to the mental requirements for being a police officer (training, stress, responsibility in the form of authority), there are physical requirements as well, as you must be fit to be a police officer (at least in theory).

All of this leads to one of the main causes of what's going on today: Shitty cops are not being fired.
Look no further than Derek Chauvin. That guy had at least 18 separate complaints filed against him, according to internal affairs. This guy was, as a co-worker described “the guy not everybody liked or wanted to work with.” but yet was tasked with training two rookies...

The lack of staffing and applications to the police force allows people like Chauvin to remain a police officer even with all these blights on their records.

Logic would stand that, if you aren't replaced or fired for misconduct, then you would not be concerned with whether or not you are performing your job properly.

So, in order to increase the attractiveness of the position, I would recommend increasing salaries, increasing required training (a degree in some form of law or law enforcement should be absolutely required) and, as a result, increase the ability to actually remove police officers who are not fit for the job, as there would be people standing in line for the opportunity to be a police officer.

It should be a prestigious role in our society, but misconduct and lack of accountability has turned it into a place where too many of the people least equipped to do the job stick with it over the long term.

I acknowledge that I am kind of in the opposite camp as most lefties (and some of them may even disown me for this opinion XD ) in that I think additional funding would fix the police as long as it was used appropriately, as I said above.

If that doesn't work, then the entire policing system may just be irreparably broken in America, I dunno haha.

[Weazzel80]

(08-27-2020, 06:39 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Look at the ratings of the NBA falling.

If players are smart they will take their opinions out of it. Just play the game and earn a paycheck please...

A big damn paycheck in the greatest country in history.

If players are smart they won't be wanting their children growing up in a society where cops and legally murder people. 

Some things are more important than a paycheck