Changing My Mind About Taylor

[*bengalfan74*]

Like I said in another thread. I've tried hard to give ZT the benefit of the doubt but I'm very quickly losing hope. I just don't think he has the ability to turn this around.

At a minimum he needs to hire an OC.

[*PhilHos*]

(09-28-2020, 01:36 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: There is a New York Post article on firing Adam Gase and this was a quote from there:

“To the fans that are calling for [Gase’s] his head, I never really understood that,’’ Van Roten said. “I was on a team last year, we fired our coach and it’s not like we started winning games. You go further in the tank. So, I’m not really sure what that solves.”



I looked back at every time a team had an interim coach since 2010. There have been 20 instances in that time where a coach was fired before the end of the season. Interim coaches have gone 39-65 in that time. Only two had winning records. One was Jason Garrett, who replaced Wade Phillips in Dallas in 2010 in midyear. The other is Gregg Williams, who replaced Hue Jackson in 2018 with the Browns. Both went 5-3. No team has made the playoffs who replaced their coach.

https://nypost.com/2020/09/28/jets-firing-adam-gase-would-only-accomplish-one-thing/


If the season ends with another 2 wins or 3 wins even, you move on but I don't see the benefit in changing things mid season, never have, unless it is to bench a player for another guy.

New coach means new system, and a new way of doing things. It is hard to put that sort of change into effect correctly at the mid way point. Plus, you aren't going to hire a guy who is going to be the long term solution right now. Can't go get a OC or DC from another team right now, so you would be replacing with another guy who is coaching a 0-2-1 team, or a guy sitting at home on his couch who wasn't deemed good enough by any of the 32 teams to start with.

There isn't a real benefit to switching guys right now unless you think someone on this coaching staff is going to be the next Jason Garrett.

The thing is, if I do fully get to the point I want Taylor gone mid-season, it's not about winning this year. Firing Taylor midseason shows that the front office is not going to tolerate failure (unlike in year's past). 

That said, I'm still hopeful that things get turned around (it's blind hope built on no foundation, but hope nonetheless). 

[*PhilHos*]

(09-28-2020, 02:48 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I'm still up in the air about Taylor.  This team (and last year's) absolutely play hard for him.  I think he's a good leader.

I think he has the makings to be a good HC. But, it's becoming ever more clear that he is just not a good playcaller. He needs to turn those duties over to Callahan and let him sink or swim and replace him if necessary. 

[*PhilHos*]

(09-28-2020, 02:52 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Like I said in another thread. I've tried hard to give ZT the benefit of the doubt but I'm very quickly losing hope. 

Pretty much why I started this thread.

(09-28-2020, 02:52 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I just don't think he has the ability to turn this around.

I think he CAN, but it would mean swallowing his pride and saying he made mistakes (like trying to be HC and playcaller, for example)

(09-28-2020, 02:52 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: At a minimum he needs to hire an OC.

Technically, we HAVE an OC. But, Taylor is the one calling the plays. Callahan is more like an assistant OC.

[Bengalfan4life27c]

Out of the 19 games he has coached this may have been his best game coaching. This and Seahawks game Week 1 last year are my top 2.

[3wt]

(09-28-2020, 02:48 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I'm still up in the air about Taylor.  This team (and last year's) absolutely play hard for him.  I think he's a good leader.

What has me up in the air is the horrible offensive line.  I still can't figure out if the guy can coach offense or call plays because this line is soooo shitty.

I think we will see the following in the offseason:

1.  They keep Taylor
2.  They fire Turner
3.  They fire Lou and bring in a veteran DC.

They draft an OT, OG and bring in a veteran interior lineman.

I think if they don't make the playoffs, then we get a new staff with a respected name.  Guys are going to be very attracted to this job with Burrow.

This

[Gdale_Bengal]

Every position group played well enough to win yesterday.

Except the offensive line and rb, which both are basically tied together for success or failure.

Fire Jim turner. That’s the only guy I want fired.

[Big Boss]

[Wes Mantooth]

(09-28-2020, 02:58 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Out of the 19 games he has coached this may have been his best game coaching. This and Seahawks game Week 1 last year are my top 2.

Not sure how you came to that conclusion, but more power to you.

If, in 19 games, your two best coaching performaces resulted in a loss and a tie, then I think that pretty much says everything you need to know.

Sounds like you're on board with getting this dude the hell outta here.

[sonofstat]

(09-28-2020, 01:36 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: There is a New York Post article on firing Adam Gase and this was a quote from there:

“To the fans that are calling for [Gase’s] his head, I never really understood that,’’ Van Roten said. “I was on a team last year, we fired our coach and it’s not like we started winning games. You go further in the tank. So, I’m not really sure what that solves.”



I looked back at every time a team had an interim coach since 2010. There have been 20 instances in that time where a coach was fired before the end of the season. Interim coaches have gone 39-65 in that time. Only two had winning records. One was Jason Garrett, who replaced Wade Phillips in Dallas in 2010 in midyear. The other is Gregg Williams, who replaced Hue Jackson in 2018 with the Browns. Both went 5-3. No team has made the playoffs who replaced their coach.

https://nypost.com/2020/09/28/jets-firing-adam-gase-would-only-accomplish-one-thing/


If the season ends with another 2 wins or 3 wins even, you move on but I don't see the benefit in changing things mid season, never have, unless it is to bench a player for another guy.

New coach means new system, and a new way of doing things. It is hard to put that sort of change into effect correctly at the mid way point. Plus, you aren't going to hire a guy who is going to be the long term solution right now. Can't go get a OC or DC from another team right now, so you would be replacing with another guy who is coaching a 0-2-1 team, or a guy sitting at home on his couch who wasn't deemed good enough by any of the 32 teams to start with.

There isn't a real benefit to switching guys right now unless you think someone on this coaching staff is going to be the next Jason Garrett.

agree...have very limited confidence in ZT right now but don't think we should ditch him in season.


Not sure its in our rookie QB interest to make that change now 

[*PhilHos*]

(09-28-2020, 03:08 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Fire Jim turner. That’s the only guy I want fired.

I don't think you'll find much resistance to this idea. Since Callahan is not calling plays, make him the OL coach. Heck, maybe he'll be as good as his dad.

[*PhilHos*]

(09-28-2020, 03:17 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Not sure how you came to that conclusion, but more power to you.

If, in 19 games, your two best coaching performaces resulted in a loss and a tie, then I think that pretty much says everything you need to know.

Sounds like you're on board with getting this dude the hell outta here.

Yeah, I would say he did better against Cleveland than he did against Philly. 

[Hammerstripes]

(09-28-2020, 03:18 PM)sonofstat Wrote: agree...have very limited confidence in ZT right now but don't think we should ditch him in season.


Not sure its in our rookie QB interest to make that change now 

Here's the key.  If you look at a lot of the high draft pick QB busts, it's the revolving door at OC/HC.  We can't do that here.

IF we move on (and I think right now it's 50/50) the next guy has to be the last guy with Burrow.

[BrownAssClown]

I think Taylor survives to the end of the season no matter what. The other coaches on his staff may only have until the bye week.

[*PhilHos*]

(09-28-2020, 03:20 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Here's the key.  If you look at a lot of the high draft pick QB busts, it's the revolving door at OC/HC.  We can't do that here.

IF we move on (and I think right now it's 50/50) the next guy has to be the last guy with Burrow.

IF we move on, I want an established coach with a proven track record. Have them get us back into contention and THEN roll the dice with a first time HC.

[*PhilHos*]

(09-28-2020, 03:25 PM)BrownAssClown Wrote: I think Taylor survives to the end of the season no matter what. 

I think so, too. It's just with each loss, with the continued poor play in all facets of the team (minus special teams), I'm getting closer to calling for his head PRIOR to season's end.

[Murdock2420]

(09-28-2020, 02:37 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: I’m not talking about normal offseason planning, I’m talking about the planning of looking for a new coaching staff. If the team went outside of active NFL coaches, they could even start interviewing and doing background research while everybody else is still concentrating on winning this season.

I get where you are coming from, but you can look for a new staff and do back-ground research without firing your current guy.

I don't think however, they can interview anyone in season. So, there really is no benefit to being the first team to fire your guy, just weather the storm, and have your research ready and end of season, make the move.

Problem is, you once again have to trust the front office to hire the right guy, and that should scare everyone.

[Murdock2420]

(09-28-2020, 02:31 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: I know you're trying to be tongue in cheek but that's absolutely true.  Still, it's the way their offensive line coach teaches the Steelers the way to hold which makes the difference.  If the hands get outside the defensive lineman's shoulder pads for more than three seconds the officials will call holding every time.  What the Steelers do is hold inside the pads which is hard to discern from simple body blocking.  Watch Alejandro Villanueva and Ramon Foster because they do it very well but center Maurkice Pouncey might be the sneakiest of all.

It was a little of both, but thank you for being able to describe it better then I could.

I didn't really know how to word the way they "block" which as you hit it perfectly, is just holding with your hands in close. You can see it every time we play them as a guy tries to get away yet somehow seems glued to an offensive lineman he is running away from. Not sure why we aren't telling our guys to do the same thing. 

[McC]

(09-28-2020, 02:55 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I think he has the makings to be a good HC. But, it's becoming ever more clear that he is just not a good playcaller. He needs to turn those duties over to Callahan and let him sink or swim and replace him if necessary. 

I don't know if Bill Walsh himself could call plays with no running game and no time to to throw.  How can anybody judge the play calling under those circumstances?

On the rare occasions when he does have a little time, there are open receivers. Doesn't that say anything to anyone?

[Big Boss]

(09-28-2020, 03:33 PM)PhilHos Wrote: IF we move on, I want an established coach with a proven track record. Have them get us back into contention and THEN roll the dice with a first time HC.

I'd almost be tempted to give Jay Gruden a call.