Jim Turner comments

[CJD]

Jim Turner needs to be fired immediately.

[GreenCornBengal]

I still think Turner has a personality difference when compared to a lot of the guys we have out there. It’s why he loves Hart. I bet he agrees and endorses his Instagram posts. All speculation of course, but I feel like turner is a ‘good ol boys’ type of coach.

If it isn’t a good working environment, you aren’t going to have positive results. The sooner we can the guy the better.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-01-2020, 09:16 AM)Au165 Wrote: At what point do we just accept our personnel is bad? We have gone through Alexander, Pollack and now Turner and the line isn't getting any better. All different schemes, all different personalities....same results. 

Tobin should be the one held accountable. He’s the recurring theme here. Director of Player Personal, and he’s given us absolute shit to work with.

[Au165]

(10-01-2020, 09:20 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: 15 pressures given up by Hart according to PFF. Most in the league. He’s also given up 10 hurries. 2nd most of any OT in the league.

It just happens our guards are also terrible. Price might be even worse than Ogbuehi honestly. This OL is an absolute disaster. At least Jonah has an excuse though, as it’s his first season of actually playing.

Hart still grades basically the same as Bulaga and Peters, two guys everyone here said would be instantly better. I don't really want to be on team Bobby Hart here, but some context is needed. He has faced some of the best rushers in the NFL this year in Bosa and Garrett. Mitchell Schwarts for example (All pro caliber tackle) gave up 8 pressures to Bosa, so the fact Hart has faced Bosa and Garrett contributes to these gaudy numbers a bit. In all honesty, when Hart hasn't faced these elite rushers he has faired pretty well, it's just when he misses with the elite guys it looks god awful. 

[Au165]

(10-01-2020, 09:24 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Tobin should be the one held accountable. He’s the recurring theme here. Director of Player Personal, and he’s given us absolute shit to work with.

I agree, whoever is evaluating the offensive line prospects is failing this team and he seems to be the constant.

[Wes Mantooth]

(10-01-2020, 09:24 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Tobin should be the one held accountable. He’s the recurring theme here. Director of Player Personal, and he’s given us absolute shit to work with.

I agree, but they really all should be held accountable.  Every last one of them.  (Brown/Blackburn/Tobin/Taylor/Turner)

To allow a prospect like Joe Burrow to come into the league and play behind this OL is simply unforgiveable. 

[yellowxdiscipline]

He firmly planted his flag on the Bobby Hart hill. I have the feeling they think Turner walks on water down at PBS.


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[*SHRacerX*]

(10-01-2020, 01:19 AM)Yojimbo Wrote: He also said the answer to the Oline problems is absolutely already on the roster. So yeah, the guy is delusional, inept and/or a gaslighter.

Maybe we should realize that the best ball of his career is still shit.  

[*Nately120*]

(10-01-2020, 07:53 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Taylor is just as delusional. Remember, all the hits Joe is taking are either “overblown” or his own fault.

The media is just trying to make us look bad and negligent because they are mad Burrow isn't on the Steelers or Cowboys.  They're going to overblow how much we are wrecking Burrow. 

Well maybe not, but they did talk a lot about the Bengals wrecking Burrow. Guess it's possible they are still "hating" on us and making it sound worse than it is.

[Nicomo Cosca]

It’s also pretty hilarious that Turner talks about one of his players being “picked on”

Just no self awareness whatsoever...

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-01-2020, 10:19 AM)Nately120 Wrote: The media is just trying to make us look bad and negligent because they are mad Burrow isn't on the Steelers or Cowboys.  They're going to overblow how much we are wrecking Burrow. 

Well maybe not, but they did talk a lot about the Bengals wrecking Burrow. Guess it's possible they are still "hating" on us and making it sound worse than it is.

K....but I was clearly talking about Taylor’s own comments.

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-01-2020, 09:08 AM)Au165 Wrote: Hart and Jonah are actually graded about the same by PFF and are both considered right around average to just slightly below average starting tackles. It is really the guards who are getting us completley killed right now. Even if you hate PFF it's not like Turner is the only one who thinks there are bigger issues on our line than Bobby Hart.

This is true.  I think everyone is willing to give Jonah time...this is Hart's FIFTH year in the league.  We know what he is and he isn't good.  We need at least good.  

I said it kind of in jest, but if they aren't going to bring in a veteran for RT, they need to spend at least two draft picks on the position and ALL their picks on offensive and defensive line.  Those other positions will not matter if you don't improve the lines.   I see Adeniji as a Guard, and perhaps he could get some experience there this year.  Jordan has been a huge disappointment.  

[*Nately120*]

(10-01-2020, 10:22 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: K....but I was clearly talking about Taylor’s own comments.

ZT and Turner may as well play the overblown card, they're not passing the eyeball test. Its all empty talk on their part, I hope they dint actually believe it. Actually they might believe it. Ouch. 

[bengaloo]

The coaches are losing me fast, and I was really on board after such a great offseason. But the product they have put on the field is for shit and there is no excuse for it, even though they keep making them up week after week. This team looks like it lacks direction, motivation and discipline, especially the OL. Mainly the OL actually. At least the DL had been hit with injuries and showed "a little" improvement when Daniels got back.

I'm ready for coaching change in Cinci, and after spending so much money, I dont think the Brown family is going to give these guys the long leash they gave Marvin. I fact I think Brown is going to be pissed watching his prize QB getting smacked around so bad. I know some folks will disagree, but I think moves will be made if big improvement doesnt happen fast. I said in another thread, Burrow alone is going to make coaching here very appealing.

ZT looks in over his head right now, and hiring a bunch of Dolphin cast-offs is backfiring bad, especially knowing coaches like Del Rio said they were interested. It just makes ZT look weak and full of ego, imo. Time to hire guys who are proven coaches, not just guys you already worked with somewhere.

[Geno_Can_Dunk]

(10-01-2020, 07:33 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Guess we can scratch RT off our draft wishlist. Apparently we’re all set!

I wouldn't go that far. There is definitely some bunker mentality going on here. There will be some re-evaluation in the offseason. It's shaping up as a good OT draft, so if there's one there in the first two rounds that they see as an upgrade, they'll do it.

[yellowxdiscipline]

It feels like Zac and Jim are standing firm with the players in the positions out of spite at this point.


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[Geno_Can_Dunk]

To those in this thread who point out that Hart's PFF scores are average or slightly below average, same as Jonah's or Beluga's or whatever, and that the guards are the real problem: The whole link sucks. Let's not confuse "not the worst" with "adequate."

True he's not the worst lineman we have, but so what? We have more than one bad lineman. It's more that we'd like some indication that the staff recognizes the OL is a problem area, that they're not getting it done, and that there will be accountability. "Ah poor Bobby everybody picks on him" just doesn't inspire that.

I understand the importance of not publicly throwing your players under the bus, but Turner's comments go way beyond that. At least ZT said that JT was a marine who gave it to his players straight. More indication of that, please. I just want to know that they're not living in some self-deluded bubble, and Turner's comments give me the opposite indication.

[Hoofhearted]

(10-01-2020, 09:27 AM)Au165 Wrote: Hart still grades basically the same as Bulaga and Peters, two guys everyone here said would be instantly better. I don't really want to be on team Bobby Hart here, but some context is needed. He has faced some of the best rushers in the NFL this year in Bosa and Garrett. Mitchell Schwarts for example (All pro caliber tackle) gave up 8 pressures to Bosa, so the fact Hart has faced Bosa and Garrett contributes to these gaudy numbers a bit. In all honesty, when Hart hasn't faced these elite rushers he has faired pretty well, it's just when he misses with the elite guys it looks god awful. 

If he can just be somewhat serviceable at pass-rush he'd be an average to good lineman. I blame some of his mistakes on the coaches for not putting him in best possible position to succeed. Knowing he struggles at pass-pro vs those "elite" guys the coaches should scheme ways to keep those edge rushers from bullying him (screens, shovel passes, TE help, RB chip, etc, etc).

[*Synric*]

(10-01-2020, 09:28 AM)Au165 Wrote: I agree, whoever is evaluating the offensive line prospects is failing this team and he seems to be the constant.

Jim McNally took over a larger role with the teams offensive line in 2015. In 2018 he was in the stands with Frank Pollack during the Senior Bowl and Combine evaluating prospects.

[Wes Mantooth]

I just checked Bobby Harts PFF score at it's 65 for the year. Jonah, I believe was, 66.

Did PFF change their rating system? Because the way it used to work was these would have put them smack damn in the middle of a "backup" grade.

I'm pretty sure 60-69 is backup, starter is 70-84, I think 84-89 is like Pro Bowl, and 90-100 is elite. And I think anything under 60 is replaceable.

So unless something has changed, Bobby Hart is currently clocking somewhere around the level you would expect for 48th best RT in the league.

To the person who claimed it, how is that average, or slightly below? He needs to be at like a 75-77 for that to be true, would he not?