WJIII

[kalibengal]

(10-05-2020, 05:35 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Overall I think hes a very.average CB.seems like everytime he gets
Burned or toasted it leads to a score or it is a score.
That play to Chark too.much cushion.to.give to a WR.
Chark snookered him.good and then WJ tries to say and plead
He never got his feet in the back line.
Even.his tackling isnt the best. Hes not a big time hitter either.
And rarely do you see him come off the slot and blitz.
I dont think he is worth the money.
Hes not the best CB in.AFC North.
Hes not a bust but hes not elite either.

Never thought he had that physicality for a DB that plays in our Division. We need someone who likes to lay the wood on people and obviously cover..and "he aint that" Wasnt his nickname "willow" at one time??
Im thinking  there could be some good FAs that may be better fit come next yr. For now he is serviceable.  

[impactplaya]

(10-05-2020, 05:45 PM)kalibengal Wrote: Never thought he had that physicality for a DB that plays in our Division. We need someone who likes to lay the wood on people and obviously cover..and "he aint that" Wasnt his nickname "willow" at one time??
Im thinking  there could be some good FAs that may be better fit come next yr. For now he is serviceable.  

Look I get it. You may not be the most physical CB but at least present a unique skillset. Tory James and Deltha ONeal were not headhunters but they were darn good at being ball thieves.
Be a ballhawk. Take the ball away. Strip the ball. 
Jackson is decent at using the sideline as a 12th man from time to time. 
But he does nothing special. He was really good his rookie year.
But since then hes declined. 

[*ochocincos*]

(10-05-2020, 05:01 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: From a free perspective, it says he has a 67.5 grade (certainly better than his 2019 53.6) and has allowed 15 catches on 23 targets into his coverage.

Anything more is behind the paywall.

- - - - - - -

As I said earlier, I think he's an okay starter, but I think this upcoming CB FA is pretty damn weak. So I worry about someone driving up the price and while it'd be nice to bring him back at a reasonable amount, I don't want to see the Bengals get into a bidding war over an okay starter.

WJ3 is PFF's 27th overall CB.

52.8 run defense, 71.3 pass coverage. In coverage, he's PFF's 12th-best CB.

[*ochocincos*]

Out of the Bengals' CBs (WJ3, Waynes, Alexander, Phillips)...
WJ3 is the best in coverage.
Waynes is the best run defender. Phillips second-best.
Alexander and Phillips are good from the slot, not so much outside.

[*bfine32*]

(10-05-2020, 05:57 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Out of the Bengals' CBs (WJ3, Waynes, Alexander, Phillips)...
WJ3 is the best in coverage.
Waynes is the best run defender.
Alexander and Phillips are good from the slot, not so much outside.

How is Sims grading? I like what I see. 

[*ochocincos*]

(10-05-2020, 05:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: How is Sims grading? I like what I see. 

78 snaps (23 run, 55 coverage)
59.9 overall grade (66.4 run, 58.1 coverage)

[Destro]

(10-05-2020, 04:43 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Like I've said all along, he is a beast in man coverage, not so great in zone.

That's the whole team. Announcer was talking about it last week, then they switch right from man, into zone, and give up the TD on the play. One of those" "That's so Bengals" moments.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-05-2020, 05:53 PM)ochocincos Wrote: WJ3 is PFF's 27th overall CB.

52.8 run defense, 71.3 pass coverage. In coverage, he's PFF's 12th-best CB.

Current 27th highest paid CB is making $8.325m/yr.

So that's actually shockingly close to the $8m/yr that I was saying.

Of course all of this is PFF-based, and we all know that's not exactly gospel. But it's an interesting point of reference for talking.

[CJD]

Extend him.

[Wes Mantooth]

(10-05-2020, 06:42 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Extend him.

For what amount?

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-05-2020, 04:40 PM)McC Wrote: Discuss.

I think the question will be:  If you can't sign both, who do you want to extend:  Alexander or WJIII?  If WJIII is going to get something close to $15 million per year (you know he will want more than Waynes) then I think you have to look at signing Alexander and going with Waynes and Phillips.

Phillips has a tendency to get "grabby", but is there much decline (despite being MUCH earlier in his career, experience-wise) from WJIII to him?  I don't think so.  

Personally, unless Waynes blows my doors off (unlikely), I would rather find a way to have WJIII and Phillips.

[CJD]

(10-05-2020, 06:43 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: For what amount?

The most recent extensions have been Jones for 5 years 82.5 million (16.5 AAV), Slay for 3 years 50.5 million (16.68 AAV), White for 4 years 70 million (17.5 AAV), Humphrey for 5 years 98.75 million (19.75 AAV), and Ramsey for 5 years 105 million (21 AAV).

I don't think WJIII is at their level, but he is better than the average cornerback. I'd say he's around a Bradley Roby or Desmond Trufant level, both of whom got around 11 to 12 million AAV.

So that's where I'd start with WJIII. Since it's an extension, maybe they treat him well to persuade him not to hit the open market and offer him 13 AAV. Say a 4 year 52 million dollar contract or something along those lines.

Of course, this assumes a typical off season. With declining revenue due to COVID, I have no idea how the market will work. Maybe contracts will go down across the league since, presumably, the cap will lower as well. With a lot of teams right at the cap, maybe the off season won't be nearly as high paying as it was in 2020.

So maybe we can nab him on a 1 year deal for 9 or 10 million to give him a chance to see the 2022 off season. Hopefully, by then, the cap will increase again and then we can go with the 13 AAV contract.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-05-2020, 04:50 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Unless we happen on something better, then of course we re-sign him. I'm all for upgrading, but not for cutting someone until you actually find that upgrade. 

This...

(10-05-2020, 04:57 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: He’s played really well so far this season. Best he’s looked since his first year. He’s going to get paid. And I’m pretty sure it will be by us. We’ll have a hell of a lot of money tied up in CB’s between him and Waynes, but I really don’t want to have to use another high draft pick on one.

And this...

For bringing him back the way WJ3 has played this year. He hasn't been as good as I thought he would be but as Sled said
that is mostly cause he is just not a Zone Corner. Nor are many of our Corners, we should primarily always use Man to Man.

[GreenCornBengal]

(10-06-2020, 04:00 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: This...


And this...

For bringing him back the way WJ3 has played this year. He hasn't been as good as I thought he would be but as Sled said
that is mostly cause he is just not a Zone Corner. Nor are many of our Corners, we should primarily always use Man to Man.

Is it easier to recognize and assist in run D in zone over man? That’s always been my assumption but I don’t know for sure.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-06-2020, 05:09 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Is it easier to recognize and assist in run D in zone over man? That’s always been my assumption but I don’t know for sure.

Not in my opinion. There is a reason why when we went to Zone this season there has been confusion and it has led to TD's.