REALISTIC Zac Taylor Expectations

[Fullrock]

Those of you that are in the "fire Zac" camp, I'm wondering, exactly what your expectations have been in a season and 5 games?

In terms of the offensive line, the man inherited a team that had John Jerry and Andre Smith playing LT last year. Cordy Glenn (who he did not trade for) turned out to be a turd who just really didn't want to play football. Clint Boling decided for health reasons to retire. Jonah Williams got injured. First round pick Billy Price (who he did not draft) is a complete bust. They sign XSF who has played all of one game.

He inherited a team with one starting caliber WR in Tyler Boyd. First round pick John Ross is a complete bust. We all know the story with AJ.

He inherited a team with the worst LB corps in the NFL, and it wasn't even close.

They go out and spend the most they have ever spent in free agency. Trae Waynes has yet to play a snap. Mackensie Alexander is out. XSF is out. Now Reader is out for the season as Geno finally is able to play. And speaking of the defensive line, which should have been an absolute strength on this team, aside from Reader now being out and Geno being injured, Tupou opted out of the season, Glasgow failed his physical and was released, and Mike Daniels has been placed on IR.

Let's not forget, this season he has a rookie QB, and yes Joe Burrow is going to be great, but the fact of the matter is it takes some time to learn how to play QB in the NFL, to adjust to the speed of the game, and to develop that internal clock in your head where you know you have to get rid of the football. Yes, the O-line is not good, but some of the hits and sacks Joe has taken are directly attributed to himself. He's a rookie, and that was never more apparent than it was Sunday.

Look I know the mantra in the NFL is next man up. Every team suffers injuries, and the good teams figure out how to overcome them. The fact of the matter is this team has zero depth behind their starters. What Zac inherited last year was a pile of shit. Those of you who expected this team to make the playoffs this year were kidding yourselves, and that's if they stayed relatively healthy. Given that they haven't, temper your expectations.

[Yojimbo]

He was already the HC and Turner was already the Oline coach when they signed Jerry, Smith and Miller. They also signed off on the Hart extension. Same for resigning Preston Brown and only drafting one LB.

The only slight pass I can give him is on the Green and Williams injuries, but really the Bengals aren’t the only team in the league that deals with injuries and has to find a way to overcome. If your HC can’t figure out how to win even with injuries, not a very good coach and definitely shouldn’t be in the NFL.

Won’t give him a pass on Green or Ross this year. The team could have moved on from both of them this past offseason.

[uticabengalfan]

I agreed with you until I watched the game Sunday. When your quarterback has no chance of getting the throws off and your receivers cant get open, then why in the hell stay in 5 wide sets and keep trying to run the same pathetic offense????? No double tight, no fullback, no chipping anything to help protection. Im sorry but this isnt LSU and we cant run the 5 wide all the time like they did. This is the NFL, for crying out loud what happened to the fullback in football?? Do yourself a favor and research ZT’s offense ranking the year he was the OC at UC in a pathetic conference. This dude dont have it period, hes Dave Shula 2.0, then have the balls to tell the fans every week were building a great culture here blah blah blah. Bs this is a results driven league and any other team in the NFL woulda packed this clowns bags after last year. Now we get to sit and watch the 90s repeat themselves

[Wes Mantooth]

Considering the 4 expansion teams from the last 25 years (Panthers, Jaguars, Browns, and Texans) averaged 7.5 wins in their 2nd year in existance, I think that's a pretty realitstic expectation.

If he wins less than 7 games this season then it's a failure. If he wins less than 5 games then he should, no question, be fired.

[SladeX]

Can't give them a pass for not addressing the OL in either FA or the draft. The vast majority of us idiot fans were concerned about the OL, to say the least. Why can't the team's management see it?
The only possible explanation is that Turner assured them he could coach them up. Obviously he's not up to the challenge.
I expected the team, including the coaches, to improve and learn game by game. Not really seeing it.

[uticabengalfan]

Theres no such thing as a free pass in the NFL. Especially when you have a bottom feeder owner

[WestCoastBengalsFan]

(10-13-2020, 12:59 PM)Fullrock Wrote: Those of you that are in the "fire Zac" camp, I'm wondering, exactly what your expectations have been in a season and 5 games?

In terms of the offensive line, the man inherited a team that had John Jerry and Andre Smith playing LT last year. Cordy Glenn (who he did not trade for) turned out to be a turd who just really didn't want to play football. Clint Boling decided for health reasons to retire. Jonah Williams got injured. First round pick Billy Price (who he did not draft) is a complete bust. They sign XSF who has played all of one game.

He inherited a team with one starting caliber WR in Tyler Boyd. First round pick John Ross is a complete bust. We all know the story with AJ.

He inherited a team with the worst LB corps in the NFL, and it wasn't even close.

They go out and spend the most they have ever spent in free agency. Trae Waynes has yet to play a snap. Mackensie Alexander is out. XSF is out. Now Reader is out for the season as Geno finally is able to play. And speaking of the defensive line, which should have been an absolute strength on this team, aside from Reader now being out and Geno being injured, Tupou opted out of the season, Glasgow failed his physical and was released, and Mike Daniels has been placed on IR.

Let's not forget, this season he has a rookie QB, and yes Joe Burrow is going to be great, but the fact of the matter is it takes some time to learn how to play QB in the NFL, to adjust to the speed of the game, and to develop that internal clock in your head where you know you have to get rid of the football. Yes, the O-line is not good, but some of the hits and sacks Joe has taken are directly attributed to himself. He's a rookie, and that was never more apparent than it was Sunday.

Look I know the mantra in the NFL is next man up. Every team suffers injuries, and the good teams figure out how to overcome them. The fact of the matter is this team has zero depth behind their starters. What Zac inherited last year was a pile of shit. Those of you who expected this team to make the playoffs this year were kidding yourselves, and that's if they stayed relatively healthy. Given that they haven't, temper your expectations.

I'm not in the fire Zac camp (yet) but I am in the hold Zac accountable if he doesn't do something about Turner and the Oline. They both said over and over in the offseason that the Oline wasn't a concern and that they had their guys already for the 2020. This is clearly a case of:

1. Bad Judgement on talent
2. Bad coaching
3. Zac putting too much trust in one of his buddies (or for all we know Zac forcing a blocking scheme that won't work for the guys we do have)

Mistakes happen but if you don't do anything to correct them or hold people accountable then it becomes about you, i.e. Zac. Like I said not on the fire Zac train yet but he needs to do something immediately. 

[uticabengalfan]

I said it the day they hired him it was a mistake. Idiot folded Sean McVays underwear for two years and hes suddenly an offensive genius. Especially when they interviewed plenty other guys more qualified, Bieniemy, Monken. Theres a reason it took so long to get a defensive coordinator, JDR, Todd Grantham, none of them guys with any knowledge wanna coach with this idiot

[Joelist]

To be honest I don't care about the injuries when evaluating Taylor (and as usual we have an entire position group destroyed by injuries - happens every season). What I look at has already been stated above - his lack of adaptation. If the players you have can't execute the scheme then change it to something they CAN execute regardless of the impact to your ego or the ego of your QB or whatever.

[Fullrock]

(10-13-2020, 01:09 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: He was already the HC and Turner was already the Oline coach when they signed Jerry, Smith and Miller. They also signed off on the Hart extension. Same for resigning Preston Brown and only drafting one LB.

The only slight pass I can give him is on the Green and Williams injuries, but really the Bengals aren’t the only team in the league that deals with injuries and has to find a way to overcome. If your HC can’t figure out how to win even with injuries, not a very good coach and definitely shouldn’t be in the NFL.

Won’t give him a pass on Green or Ross this year. The team could have moved on from both of them this past offseason.

They signed Jerry in June and Smith in July of last year. Desperation signings to try to even field an offensive line after Boling retired and Williams got hurt. Miller, though not great, was at least serviceable at RG.

You do understand that the coaches are typically not the people who decide how active they are going to be in free agency, right? They also are not the only ones involved in contract extensions and certainly not the money side of those extensions. You have no clue whether or not Zac "signed off" on anything in regards to Hart and Brown. Given that they cut Brown in the middle of the season last year, I'm guessing he was never their guy to begin with, and it took some convincing to the brass to let him go.

Again, you're assuming the coaches of this team have the control to decide whether or not to cut Ross or resign AJ.

[Yojimbo]

(10-13-2020, 01:24 PM)Fullrock Wrote: They signed Jerry in June and Smith in July of last year. Desperation signings to try to even field an offensive line after Boling retired and Williams got hurt. Miller, though not great, was at least serviceable at RG.

You do understand that the coaches are typically not the people who decide how active they are going to be in free agency, right? They also are not the only ones involved in contract extensions and certainly not the money side of those extensions. You have no clue whether or not Zac "signed off" on anything in regards to Hart and Brown. Given that they cut Brown in the middle of the season last year, I'm guessing he was never their guy to begin with, and it took some convincing to the brass to let him go.

Again, you're assuming the coaches of this team have the control to decide whether or not to cut Ross or resign AJ.

I know how other teams operate, but the coaches for the Bengals definitely do have input and some control over players that are drafted and signed. Have you not been watching this team for the last 20+ years? Taylor and Turner have both said the signings and extensions were signed off by them. I’m not assuming.

[*ochocincos*]

My expectations when Taylor took over a 6-win team were that he should have gotten the team back to 8 or more wins his first year, back into the postseason by the end of this year.

[Fullrock]

(10-13-2020, 01:27 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: I know how other teams operate, but the coaches for the Bengals definitely do have input and some control over players that are drafted and signed. Have you not been watching this team for the last 20+ years? Taylor and Turner have both said the signings and extensions were signed off by them. I’m not assuming.

I watched this team for decades. Yes, you are definitely assuming. What exactly are Taylor and Turner going to say if management decided to extend Hart for starter money and they didn't want to give him that much? They gonna come out in the media and say, "yeah we really didn't want to sign Hart for that much, but here he is." No, they're not.

As fans, we can speculate how the organization is run, but we really have no clue. I can tell you for a FACT that Marvin did not want to draft John Ross. That came directly from a friend of mine who was a very good friend of Marvin's.

[fredtoast]

Taylor took over a six win team. I understand that it sometimes takes a year to turn around so I give him a pass on last year. But this year he got two first round picks and a handful of big free agents. No matter how bad the team was last year he has to show major improvement this year or he is a failure as a head coach.

I am not in the crowd saying to fire him right now. But by the end of the year we have to show major improvement or he needs to be replaced.

--I was impressed last year when he fixed the run game in the middle of the season, but all that improvement has disappeared.

--Burrow holds onto the ball too long, so our sack numbers are inflated. But the pass protection is still very weak. And it seems a lot of the problems have to do more with failure to pick up stunts and blitzes than just being physically over powered. This is on the coaches.

--High sack numbers are also due to poor schemes in the passing game. Dalton did not look that bad in 2018, but looked like total shit last year. I don't believe he forgot how to play QB in one offseason. Instead I think the coaching is a big part of the problem with the passing game. If our schemes don't get receivers open the QB has to hold on to the ball longer.

--Our pass defense is actually very good. It is the only thing this team does well.

--Our run defense is horrid. Can't tell if it is on the players or the coaching, but something has to change.

--Special teams are fantastic. I would not mind seeing Simmons given the head coaching position if he is interested.

[TecmoBengals]

His play calling feels predictable. You don't even have to be a football guru, as determined by starting on your varsity high school team, to anticipate some of Zac's play calling. Thus, my realistic Zac Taylor expectation is for him to demonstrate he can implement an effective NFL offense.

[BengalChris]

(10-13-2020, 12:59 PM)Fullrock Wrote: Those of you that are in the "fire Zac" camp, I'm wondering, exactly what your expectations have been in a season and 5 games?

In terms of the offensive line, the man inherited a team that had John Jerry and Andre Smith playing LT last year. Cordy Glenn (who he did not trade for) turned out to be a turd who just really didn't want to play football. Clint Boling decided for health reasons to retire. Jonah Williams got injured. First round pick Billy Price (who he did not draft) is a complete bust. They sign XSF who has played all of one game.

He inherited a team with one starting caliber WR in Tyler Boyd. First round pick John Ross is a complete bust. We all know the story with AJ.

He inherited a team with the worst LB corps in the NFL, and it wasn't even close.

They go out and spend the most they have ever spent in free agency. Trae Waynes has yet to play a snap. Mackensie Alexander is out. XSF is out. Now Reader is out for the season as Geno finally is able to play. And speaking of the defensive line, which should have been an absolute strength on this team, aside from Reader now being out and Geno being injured, Tupou opted out of the season, Glasgow failed his physical and was released, and Mike Daniels has been placed on IR.

Let's not forget, this season he has a rookie QB, and yes Joe Burrow is going to be great, but the fact of the matter is it takes some time to learn how to play QB in the NFL, to adjust to the speed of the game, and to develop that internal clock in your head where you know you have to get rid of the football. Yes, the O-line is not good, but some of the hits and sacks Joe has taken are directly attributed to himself. He's a rookie, and that was never more apparent than it was Sunday.

Look I know the mantra in the NFL is next man up. Every team suffers injuries, and the good teams figure out how to overcome them. The fact of the matter is this team has zero depth behind their starters. What Zac inherited last year was a pile of shit. Those of you who expected this team to make the playoffs this year were kidding yourselves, and that's if they stayed relatively healthy. Given that they haven't, temper your expectations.

I've stated my expectations several times, but will summarize here.

The 2018 team, which started out with success until AJ went down, then Dalton and the team was led by waiver wire pickup Jeff Driskel at QB. That team managed 6 wins.

The 2020 team has more talent.

So I expect, if Taylor is worthy of being a HC, that this team would at least match the 2018 record of 6 wins.

Sadly, there is little likelihood that this team will get to 6 wins. It will need 5 wins in the next 11 games.

In addition to the above, Dave Shula, the consensus worst HC in Bengals history, managed an 8-24 record in his first two years and had the newly drafted Dave Klingler as his QB. This pretty much places a floor on how to measure a HC. If you suck this bad as a HC, then possibly football is not the profession of choice.

Taylor's record is currently at 3-17-1. To even catch up with the dismal Shula, Taylor will need to lead the team to 5 more wins this season, the same as he needs to matching the 2018 team for the year.

There needs to be some stellar change if Taylor is even going to move up enough to match the previous worse coach in Bengals history.

When you consider how little Mike Brown gave Dave Shula to succeed and how much he has given Taylor, then you will understand my frustration with Taylor.

 

[chopperbobby]

I expected at the least, look like we belong on the field with division teams. We did not belong out there with the ravens. We were out played out coached and the owner kicked out owners ass I think too. I guess if we get another win he is improving over last year. PS

Who dey. In Zach and Mikey I trust. It is not time to push the panic button yet. Give it 5 more years

[*ochocincos*]

(10-13-2020, 01:16 PM)uticabengalfan Wrote: I agreed with you until I watched the game Sunday. When your quarterback has no chance of getting the throws off and your receivers cant get open, then why in the hell stay in 5 wide sets and keep trying to run the same pathetic offense????? No double tight, no fullback, no chipping anything to help protection. Im sorry but this isnt LSU and we cant run the 5 wide all the time like they did. This is the NFL, for crying out loud what happened to the fullback in football?? Do yourself a favor and research ZT’s offense ranking the year he was the OC at UC in a pathetic conference. This dude dont have it period, hes Dave Shula 2.0, then have the balls to tell the fans every week were building a great culture here blah blah blah. Bs this is a results driven league and any other team in the NFL woulda packed this clowns bags after last year. Now we get to sit and watch the 90s repeat themselves

It's also worth looking at the year he took over as OC in MIA in 2015 and compare it to the offensive performances in 2019 and 2020 in CIN.
2015 MIA - 27th in Points For, 26th in yards
2019 CIN - 30th in Points For, 26th in yards
2020 CIN - 29th in Points For, 26th in yards

As you mention, they need to find ways to increase protection to allow receivers more time to get open.
Defenses are beating this OL with just 4-5 guys. Most of the OL are getting beat in 1-on-1 matchups.
Have an extra OL plus a TE out there blocking (or double OL).
Drew Sample actually has the 3rd most pass blocking snaps of all TEs according to PFF, but he's not doing great at it (51.2 rating). He's (much) better as a run blocker.

I doubt the Bengals would get a FB given they are more of a spread team, not a run-it-down-your-throat team, but a FB would sure help the run game.

[impactplaya]

(10-13-2020, 12:59 PM)Fullrock Wrote: Those of you that are in the "fire Zac" camp, I'm wondering, exactly what your expectations have been in a season and 5 games?

In terms of the offensive line, the man inherited a team that had John Jerry and Andre Smith playing LT last year. Cordy Glenn (who he did not trade for) turned out to be a turd who just really didn't want to play football. Clint Boling decided for health reasons to retire. Jonah Williams got injured. First round pick Billy Price (who he did not draft) is a complete bust. They sign XSF who has played all of one game.

He inherited a team with one starting caliber WR in Tyler Boyd. First round pick John Ross is a complete bust. We all know the story with AJ.

He inherited a team with the worst LB corps in the NFL, and it wasn't even close.

They go out and spend the most they have ever spent in free agency. Trae Waynes has yet to play a snap. Mackensie Alexander is out. XSF is out. Now Reader is out for the season as Geno finally is able to play. And speaking of the defensive line, which should have been an absolute strength on this team, aside from Reader now being out and Geno being injured, Tupou opted out of the season, Glasgow failed his physical and was released, and Mike Daniels has been placed on IR.

Let's not forget, this season he has a rookie QB, and yes Joe Burrow is going to be great, but the fact of the matter is it takes some time to learn how to play QB in the NFL, to adjust to the speed of the game, and to develop that internal clock in your head where you know you have to get rid of the football. Yes, the O-line is not good, but some of the hits and sacks Joe has taken are directly attributed to himself. He's a rookie, and that was never more apparent than it was Sunday.

Look I know the mantra in the NFL is next man up. Every team suffers injuries, and the good teams figure out how to overcome them. The fact of the matter is this team has zero depth behind their starters. What Zac inherited last year was a pile of shit. Those of you who expected this team to make the playoffs this year were kidding yourselves, and that's if they stayed relatively healthy. Given that they haven't, temper your expectations.

For one Zack has no business being a OC and HC. Its too much
For a 1st time HC to TAKE ON. 
He's 1 and 7 vs.the North. Thats Cleveland Browns pre 2019 esque

Every game he has to out coach the coach across the field and out scheme
The DC . Sunday Martindale bitched slapped Taylor so hard his mommy felt 
It in Sooner Country.He gets out coached every game

Every week its the same answers from.him.."we are going to.watch film and correct 
Our mistakes and be great." Darn Im convinced on that quote alone

He has a franchise QB and has no.idea how to preserve him.
Hell did you see Bill Cowher run 5 WR empty sets with Ben as,a rookie. Heck no.
They ran 1 TE 3 WR sets...2 3 TE sets...they protected Big Ben. 

I have a feeling some of this team isnt buying into him..He had no  cache when he was 
Hired. 

He wont get 6 wins this year. Maybe 4. Maybe. 

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(10-13-2020, 01:47 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: His play calling feels predictable. You don't even have to be a football guru, as determined by starting on your varsity high school team, to anticipate some of Zac's play calling. Thus, my realistic Zac Taylor expectation is for him to demonstrate he can implement an effective NFL offense.

I have no problem with the many criticisms that have been levied thus far, as many of them are legitimate and have cause behind them.

But this is the ultimate, "machinations in your head/conspiracy/thinking you know more than you actually do," criticism that has existed since forever; the play-calling isn't predictable nor is it, "something your varsity high school team can anticipate," because you, the opponent and everyone NOT on/affiliated with the team, knows that plays that are called: the terminology, the sets, the drops, the routes, route depths, etc., etc., etc., you don't know them, so there is no possible way to call things predictable or not.

I have never understood this criticism since I first saw it be mentioned years ago and still don't; are you psychic or have stolen a playbook file from the team in some way?