PFF Ranks Cincy's Defense top 10.

[*Synric*]

https://www.cincyjungle.com/platform/amp/2020/10/16/21518843/bengals-defense-top-10-pro-football-focus-rankings-jessie-bates

Quote:10. CINCINNATI BENGALS

The Bengals rounding out the top 10 is quite the surprise, given how bad they were last year and the fact that Trae Waynes and Mackensie Alexander, the two free agents they brought in to help out the secondary, have battled injuries. Safety Jessie Bates III has without question been the best player at the position to start out the year, as he has earned a 90.2 coverage grade, nearly 14 grading points higher than the next best safety. He has broken up a whopping seven passes, leading the position by three.

With all the negative out there right now it's good to see the defense getting a little credit. They have have been hit by injuries and have played up and down but the defense is getting better as the year goes on...We will have to see how they handle life after DJ Reader and at least 4 weeks without Sam Hubbard.

[SunsetBengal]

Oh man, this is going to break the hearts of a lot of folks that have been calling for Anarumo's head..

[*michaelsean*]

(10-16-2020, 07:19 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Oh man, this is going to break the hearts of a lot of folks that have been calling for Anarumo's head..

Dude folds at crunch time.

[*Synric*]

Bengals have had 8 different Defensive Tackles (9th coming Sunday) and lost two before the season started. Crazy thinking they are 11 defensive tackles deep right now lol.

[Nicomo Cosca]

They should be considering all the money we spent on that side of the ball. Now do that for the OL and we might actually win some games.

[Murdock2420]

I'm just glad to see Bates playing so well. I remember debating with some people pre-season about the "bold predictions" and that it wasn't that bold saying Bates would be a top safety. He still has room to improve and may even become the top safety in the league before his career is over.

[*Synric*]

(10-16-2020, 08:09 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I'm just glad to see Bates playing so well. I remember debating with some people pre-season about the "bold predictions" and that it wasn't that bold saying Bates would be a top safety. He still has room to improve and may even become the top safety in the league before his career is over.

Jessie Bates is a top priority extention this off-season. 5 year 55 or 60mil. People will complain but that locks Bates up for the next 6 seasons... and he's worth it.

[J24]

(10-16-2020, 08:36 PM)Synric Wrote: Jessie Bates is a top priority extention this off-season. 5 year 55 or 60mil. People will complain but that locks Bates up for the next 6 seasons... and he's worth it.

Will 12 million a year get it done? Were probably looking at a 4 year 60 Million dollar deal? He is worth the investment though.

As for the Defense being top 10 that's a bit of a surprise considering they have had little production from the pass rush. 

[SunsetBengal]

(10-16-2020, 08:39 PM)J24 Wrote: Will 12 million a year get it done? Were probably looking at a 4 year 60 Million dollar deal? He is worth the investment though.

As for the Defense being top 10 that's a bit of a surprise considering they have had little production from the pass rush. 

That's an interesting question, and I think that the answer is no.  According to what I'm reading in this link, $12M/per will likely barely reach the top 10 salaries for Safeties next year.  However, one trend that I do notice is that the guaranteed amount of the total contract amount appears to be less than half of the max amount for the top 5.

https://overthecap.com/position/safety/

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-16-2020, 08:09 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I'm just glad to see Bates playing so well. I remember debating with some people pre-season about the "bold predictions" and that it wasn't that bold saying Bates would be a top safety. He still has room to improve and may even become the top safety in the league before his career is over.

Yeah, I will eat crow on that one. I argued that was one of the more bold predictions. But outside of an occasional bad game where he seems to forget how to tackle he’s been a stud.

I thought he’d be good, but I never dreamed he could be in the conversation for best FS in the league. If he can get better at wrapping up big RB’s he will be an absolute game changer back there. Henry should be a big test for him Sunday...

[*Synric*]

(10-16-2020, 08:53 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That's an interesting question, and I think that the answer is no.  According to what I'm reading in this link, $12M/per will likely barely reach the top 10 salaries for Safeties next year.  However, one trend that I do notice is that the guaranteed amount of the total contract amount appears to be less than half of the max amount for the top 5.

https://overthecap.com/position/safety/

The Salary cap dropping instead of going up with a possibility of it doing it a couple years in a row the guaranteed is probably going to be a pretty big point in negotiations this offseason.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-16-2020, 08:53 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That's an interesting question, and I think that the answer is no.  According to what I'm reading in this link, $12M/per will likely barely reach the top 10 salaries for Safeties next year.  However, one trend that I do notice is that the guaranteed amount of the total contract amount appears to be less than half of the max amount for the top 5.

https://overthecap.com/position/safety/

The question is how many of those safeties still had a year of control left? I am not on board with extending Bates this offseason.

Bates is playing for a $1.15m base salary next year if he doesn't sign an extension. PLUS the safety franchise tag in 2020 was only $11.15m. So even if you add a bit onto that and call it $12.something million... that means the Bengals can control Bates for another 2yr/$13.5m or so. 

I'm actually all good with not extending him for now. Let him play for $13m+ over the next two years, and turn that savings into money you can throw at FA OL. There's a finite amount of time the Bengals have where they don't have to pay a QB $30m+/yr. Don't blow it on giving players unnecessary raises while hobbling yourself from a cap standpoint. Get the most talent you possibly can for now because a time is coming where you won't be able to.

[*bfine32*]

I heard today that Cincy is one of only 2 Ds to earn 70 or above in pass defense,

[Nicomo Cosca]

WJ3 should be more of a priority this offseason, imo. If he walks we’re probably looking at having to use yet another high pick on a CB.

Unless you think Philips is good enough to start on the outside on a full time basis. Re-signing WJ3 will lock up a ton of money on CB’s between him and Waynes, but at least we’d be set at the position for the near future, and could focus on bigger areas of need in FA and the draft.

[SunsetBengal]

(10-16-2020, 09:10 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The question is how many of those safeties still had a year of control left? I am not on board with extending Bates this offseason.

Bates is playing for a $1.15m base salary next year if he doesn't sign an extension. PLUS the safety franchise tag in 2020 was only $11.15m. So even if you add a bit onto that and call it $12.something million... that means the Bengals can control Bates for another 2yr/$13.5m or so. 

I'm actually all good with not extending him for now. Let him play for $13m+ over the next two years, and turn that savings into money you can throw at FA OL. There's a finite amount of time the Bengals have where they don't have to pay a QB $30m+/yr. Don't blow it on giving players unnecessary raises while hobbling yourself from a cap standpoint. Get the most talent you possibly can for now because a time is coming where you won't be able to.

Did you even read the link?  All of the top 5 are under contract until 2025.

[*Synric*]

(10-16-2020, 09:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I heard today that Cincy is one of only 2 Ds to earn 70 or above in pass defense,

The back end has been excellent and Logan Wilson has made some nice plays in coverage at linebacker being in position to limit YAC.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-16-2020, 09:41 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Did you even read the link?  All of the top 5 are under contract until 2025.

Did you even read my post? I'm saying WHEN they got their contract, were they in FA/impending FA, or did they still have team control?

Safety A is a 2021 FA
Safety B(ates) is a 2022 FA

In the 2020-2021 offseason both get contracts. It is logical that Safety A will get paid more on an contract than Safety B on an extension because Safety B still has 1yr/$1.15m on his contract that he has to play for regardless.

It's a matter of leverage. They're not in equal situations, so it's logical that they would not receive equal deals.

[*Synric*]

(10-16-2020, 09:10 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The question is how many of those safeties still had a year of control left? I am not on board with extending Bates this offseason.

Bates is playing for a $1.15m base salary next year if he doesn't sign an extension. PLUS the safety franchise tag in 2020 was only $11.15m. So even if you add a bit onto that and call it $12.something million... that means the Bengals can control Bates for another 2yr/$13.5m or so. 

I'm actually all good with not extending him for now. Let him play for $13m+ over the next two years, and turn that savings into money you can throw at FA OL. There's a finite amount of time the Bengals have where they don't have to pay a QB $30m+/yr. Don't blow it on giving players unnecessary raises while hobbling yourself from a cap standpoint. Get the most talent you possibly can for now because a time is coming where you won't be able to.

So you're saying you want to tell Jessie Bates we want to pay you the least we can possibly can for two years and let you hit free agency?

Or do you tell the Best Player on your defense that is still very young we want to pay you a year early to keep you in stripes for the entire prime of your career?

I'd go with B.

[SunsetBengal]

(10-16-2020, 10:14 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Did you even read my post? I'm saying WHEN they got their contract, were they in FA/impending FA, or did they still have team control?

Safety A is a 2021 FA
Safety B(ates) is a 2022 FA

In the 2020-2021 offseason both get contracts. It is logical that Safety A will get paid more on an contract than Safety B on an extension because Safety B still has 1yr/$1.15m on his contract that he has to play for regardless.

It's a matter of leverage. They're not in equal situations, so it's logical that they would not receive equal deals.

Yeah, my apologies for misreading, or actually skimming your post..

[Tony]

They are literally one of the worst run Ds in football. Team's dont have to pass...