Wasting cap space on certain veterans

[*ochocincos*]

A big problem the Bengals have right now is they are not getting production from many of their higher-paid vets.

The following big-money guys are out due to injury:
- Trae Waynes ($10 mill)
- DJ Reader ($10 mill)
- CJ Uzomah ($5.9 mill)

On top of that, the following high-paid players are receiving less and less of the team's offensive/defensive snaps:
- Geno Atkins ($14.2 mill) - 29% of snaps vs Colts, Xavier Williams started over him. 30% of snaps against Ravens.
- Carlos Dunlap ($11 mill) - 44% of snaps vs Colts, Amani Bledsoe started over him. 46% of snaps against Ravens, Lawson started over him.
- Shawn Williams ($4.9 mill) - < 10% of snaps on season
- Giovani Bernard ($4.75 mill) - 32% of snaps on season, 48% vs Colts due to Mixon injury

I realize that injuries happen, but the Bengals have $35 mill of cap going towards guys who are not being used nearly as much as they should be. These guys are being paid a premium to be essentially high-priced depth.

Williams is set to hit FA after this year, but the other 3 are not. However, they would free up quite a bit of cap if off the books for next year (Bernard $4 mill, Dunlap $11.25 mill, Atkins $9.6 mill in 2021 and $13.45 mill in 2022). $25 mill in 2021 and $13.45 mill in 2022, which could go a long way to get a long-term starter at a position of need (primarily OL).

The Bengals have to seriously consider getting these guys off the books next year or actually use them.

[Wire22Wire]

They aren’t good enough to play more

We’d be worse if they played more.

Cut cut cut cut cut. Be a real franchise, make the Easy decisions. Thank them for their time
And years. Don’t get emotional.

It’s a business. Not a non for profit retirement home

[WhodeyRay]

What you said makes a great point. A lot of money for little production. However, Reader and hopefully Waynes are worth keeping around. If you pull the other contracts and add AJ we would have about 60 mill in cap room that could go to improving this team with productive players. Doesn't make sense at all.

[fredtoast]

We can't do anything with any cap space at this time.

But we need to take a long look at these contracts next off-season.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-19-2020, 04:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: We can't do anything with any cap space at this time.

But we need to take a long look at these contracts next off-season.

This is an honest question because I don't know the answer...but couldn't the Bengals trade or cut them now to add some additional cap this year that can be rolled over to next year?

I thought they could.

[Nicomo Cosca]

Might as well merge these two threads.

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-25-million

We’re saying the exact same thing.

[Wire22Wire]

(10-19-2020, 04:19 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Might as well merge these two threads.

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-25-million

We’re saying the exact same thing.

And this, not sure how to merger tho

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Gotta-Keep-Building-through-FA

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-19-2020, 04:29 PM)Wire22Wire Wrote: And this, not sure how to merger tho

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Gotta-Keep-Building-through-FA

Mods have to do it.

[Geno_Can_Dunk]

cap space saved this year can be rolled over to next year.

[*pally*]

(10-19-2020, 04:14 PM)ochocincos Wrote: This is an honest question because I don't know the answer...but couldn't the Bengals trade or cut them now to add some additional cap this year that can be rolled over to next year?

I thought they could.

To trade them would require a trading partner who would be willing to pick up their contracts.  That is not easy to find.  In fact, it can be pretty near impossible.

[*psychdoctor*]

I think players that are injured should be given pass. I really like Reader. WTS, I am unfamiliar with Waynes but from what I have read, it seems he plays rush well but plays like Kirk in pass-cov. My understanding is the Bengals can get out of Waynes contract in year two but not certain.

I think Bengals need to part ways or trade:
Ross
Green
Dunlap
Geno

They need to sign WJ3 and Alexander.

I Don't think Green will be worth 18 or more mil per year. I know he is one of the good guys, but I have see enough that points the team going younger with more aggressive WR via draft.

I am extremely disappointed in Mike Thomas. I was pimping him early in the year. I knew he had Simpson like ability of making fantastic catches but dropping easy ones, but he has shown not much.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-19-2020, 05:08 PM)pally Wrote: To trade them would require a trading partner who would be willing to pick up their contracts.  That is not easy to find.  In fact, it can be pretty near impossible.

To trade, yes.
But can't they be cut and still save some cap space for the remaining games?

[*psychdoctor*]

(10-19-2020, 05:10 PM)ochocincos Wrote: To trade, yes.
But can't they be cut and still save some cap space for the remaining games?

I believe cap space and cap hit depends on the language of the contract, including guaranteed monies and such.  Cutting Green or trading him and Ross are different because it is their final year.  Dunlap, Geno, Waynes, are different.  

[*ochocincos*]

(10-19-2020, 05:10 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I think players that are injured should be given pass.  I really like Reader.   WTS, I am unfamiliar with Waynes but from what I have read, it seems he plays rush well but plays like Kirk in pass-cov.  My understanding is the Bengals can get out of Waynes contract in year two but not certain.  

I think Bengals need to part ways or trade:
Ross
Green
Dunlap
Geno

They need to sign WJ3 and Alexander.  

I Don't think Green will be worth 18 or more mil per year.  I know he is one of the good guys, but I have see enough that points the team going younger with more aggressive WR via draft.  

I am extremely disappointed in Mike Thomas.  I was pimping him early in the year.  I knew he had Simpson like ability of making fantastic catches but dropping easy ones, but he has shown not much.

All of Ross's cap hit is guaranteed, so cutting him isn't really an option. Trading him is really the only thing worth doing.

[*psychdoctor*]

Ocho and others: Here is an article that best explains current cap space, dead monies per player and such. Each player carries different cap hit and dead money based on contract language, guaranteed monies, years of deal and such.

Hope this helps...

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/cap/

[fredtoast]

(10-19-2020, 04:14 PM)ochocincos Wrote: This is an honest question because I don't know the answer...but couldn't the Bengals trade or cut them now to add some additional cap this year that can be rolled over to next year?

I thought they could.

Cutting Dunlap and Atkins would actually create dead cap space because the remaining amount of their signing bonus that was prorated over the life of the contract would all be counted this year.

4.5 Mill dead cap space for Dunlap and 7.8 for Geno.

Greens contract is 100% guaranteed, so we gain nothing by cutting him.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-19-2020, 05:10 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I think players that are injured should be given pass.  I really like Reader.   WTS, I am unfamiliar with Waynes but from what I have read, it seems he plays rush well but plays like Kirk in pass-cov.  My understanding is the Bengals can get out of Waynes contract in year two but not certain.  

I think Bengals need to part ways or trade:
Ross
Green
Dunlap
Geno

They need to sign WJ3 and Alexander.  

I Don't think Green will be worth 18 or more mil per year.  I know he is one of the good guys, but I have see enough that points the team going younger with more aggressive WR via draft.  

I am extremely disappointed in Mike Thomas.  I was pimping him early in the year.  I knew he had Simpson like ability of making fantastic catches but dropping easy ones, but he has shown not much.

I apologize if I made it sound like this thread was about the guys who were injured. I simply included them because they are not able to contribute even though they have big cap hits.
The primary focus is the guys who are not injured but still not playing enough snaps/contributing enough.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-19-2020, 05:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Cutting Dunlap and Atkins would actually create dead cap space because the remaining amount of their signing bonus that was prorated over the life of the contract would all be counted this year.

4.5 Mill dead cap space for Dunlap and 7.8 for Geno.

Greens contract is 100% guaranteed, so we gain nothing by cutting him.

Creating dead cap space is fine. It would happen whether cut now or in the offseason.
Would cutting now save any additional money compared to cutting in the offseason?
That's what I am asking.

I would think so because the amount they would be paid the rest of this year would still be higher than their dead cap, right?

[*psychdoctor*]

Looking at the link I posted above, Lawson is dirt cheap. Green carries the highest Cap %. Interesting look. I think cutting Dunlap, Geno after this season makes sense. I think letting Green, Ross walk makes sense from purely a production view. Lawson is a keeper, so is Wj3, Alexander. I do not know enough about Waynes but his base is 5 mil per year. Like to see what he brings.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-19-2020, 05:21 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Ocho and others:  Here is an article that best explains current cap space, dead monies per player and such.  Each player carries different cap hit and dead money based on contract language, guaranteed monies, years of deal and such.  

Hope this helps...

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/cap/

I reference Spotrac frequently and am aware of the numbers listed.

What I am not sure of is what happens if someone is released mid-season.
Spotrac does not explain that.