Argument for and against Sewell.

[*Synric*]

(12-16-2020, 09:43 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Madden i guess is played every year then.. trade backs happen and I posted that Miami is a piece or so away from a very good team.. one of those pieces is OL and they have plenty of draft picks to play with.. don;t you agree ?

Miami took two offensive tackles in 2020. 

Austin Jackson and Robert Hunt were First and Second round picks. There are some growing pains this year as they are rookies but the Dolphins more than likely continue to develop their high 2020 drafted tackles and use those extra picks to continue to build their roster. 

Edit: If I had to guess I'd say Miami is going to be targeting defense. Gregory Rousseau, Micah Parsons, Kwity Paye etc...

[Essex Johnson]

(12-16-2020, 10:42 PM)Synric Wrote: Miami took two offensive tackles in 2020. 

Austin Jackson and Robert Hunt were First and Second round picks. There are some growing pains this year as they are rookies but the Dolphins more than likely continue to develop their high 2020 drafted tackles and use those extra picks to continue to build their roster. 

Edit: If I had to guess I'd say Miami is going to be targeting defense. Gregory Rousseau, Micah Parsons, Kwity Paye etc...

Point taken just seemed to struggle on line this year but we dont know what what will  happen but offers will come I believe 

[Gdale_Bengal]

(12-16-2020, 09:43 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Madden i guess is played every year then.. trade backs happen and I posted that Miami is a piece or so away from a very good team.. one of those pieces is OL and they have plenty of draft picks to play with.. don;t you agree ?

So they are going to offer us a really lucrative deal to move up and get Sewell? I think they are more likely to try to deal with the Jags before they try to lose the farm on the Bengals. Because the Browns cover there draft capital far more than most other teams.

I don’t think Miami is going to try for the 3rd pick, so we are drafting Sewell, Parsons, Rosseau, or Chase.

[*ochocincos*]

(12-16-2020, 10:42 PM)Synric Wrote: Miami took two offensive tackles in 2020. 

Austin Jackson and Robert Hunt were First and Second round picks. There are some growing pains this year as they are rookies but the Dolphins more than likely continue to develop their high 2020 drafted tackles and use those extra picks to continue to build their roster. 

Edit: If I had to guess I'd say Miami is going to be targeting defense. Gregory Rousseau, Micah Parsons, Kwity Paye etc...

They could also probably use another WR and/or RB. They might be willing to trade up for Chase to pair with Parker and Gesicki.

[*Synric*]

(12-17-2020, 11:10 AM)ochocincos Wrote: They could also probably use another WR and/or RB. They might be willing to trade up for Chase to pair with Parker and Gesicki.

Maybe but I don't see that happening. Chase might actually slide to 8 and even if he doesnt Jaylen Waddle or Davonte Smith are excellent consolation prizes. 

[Gdale_Bengal]

What team has the draft capital to move to 3 for Sewell other than Miami, who I think is going to stay put and take BPA or whatever receiver is available?

I don’t think there is another team, and I don’t think they take a bad deal just to move back for some mid round picks

[Whatever]

(12-17-2020, 01:29 PM)Synric Wrote: Maybe but I don't see that happening. Chase might actually slide to 8 and even if he doesnt Jaylen Waddle or Davonte Smith are excellent consolation prizes. 

They also only have 39 players under contract next year, so I don't see them being terribly eager to give up a bunch of picks.  Plus Smith with have immediate chemistry with Tua.

[*ochocincos*]

(12-17-2020, 01:29 PM)Synric Wrote: Maybe but I don't see that happening. Chase might actually slide to 8 and even if he doesnt Jaylen Waddle or Davonte Smith are excellent consolation prizes. 

Depends on what their goal is, I guess.
If they feel that Parker is their clear WR1, they may just want that complimentary piece and feel Smith, Waddle, or some other receiver could all be fine.
But if they want arguably the best WR in the draft to have two WR1's, they may feel Chase is that missing piece to get them to a Top 10 offense.
They are 22nd in passing yards, 27th in rushing yards.

What would be better: Ja'Marr Chase and a 2nd round RB (Najee Harris?), or Devonta Smith/Jaylen Waddle and Travis Etienne in Rd 1?

[Tiger Teeth]

https://sports.yahoo.com/2021-nfl-mock-draft-4-quarterbacks-go-in-top-7-overall-picks-140635174.html

[J24]

(12-17-2020, 01:40 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: What team has the draft capital to move to 3 for Sewell other than Miami, who I think is going to stay put and take BPA or whatever receiver is available?

I don’t think there is another team, and I don’t think they take a bad deal just to move back for some mid round picks

Jacksonville and the Jets both have the ammunition to get a deal done. Both have a late first , multiple 2nd RD picks, and could put future first RD picks into the deal. I would watch the Jags in Particular they could draft(not so much with us) Sewell @ 2 and move back into the top 10 to draft a QB.
Edit Jets do not have multiple 2nds but multiple 3rd RD picks. They could potentially move Sam Darnold for a 2nd though. Still they could have a potential enticing trade package.

[*bfine32*]

(12-16-2020, 10:42 PM)Synric Wrote: Miami took two offensive tackles in 2020. 

Austin Jackson and Robert Hunt were First and Second round picks. There are some growing pains this year as they are rookies but the Dolphins more than likely continue to develop their high 2020 drafted tackles and use those extra picks to continue to build their roster. 

Edit: If I had to guess I'd say Miami is going to be targeting defense. Gregory Rousseau, Micah Parsons, Kwity Paye etc...

Maybe the Dolphins learned from the mistake of the Bengals trying to stick with Cedric Og and Jake Fisher

[J24]

(12-17-2020, 02:15 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Depends on what their goal is, I guess.
If they feel that Parker is their clear WR1, they may just want that complimentary piece and feel Smith, Waddle, or some other receiver could all be fine.
But if they want arguably the best WR in the draft to have two WR1's, they may feel Chase is that missing piece to get them to a Top 10 offense.
They are 22nd in passing yards, 27th in rushing yards.

What would be better: Ja'Marr Chase and a 2nd round RB (Najee Harris?), or Devonta Smith/Jaylen Waddle and Travis Etienne in Rd 1?

I would go with Smith and Etienne on that.
Reverse question though if Miami offers both their second RD picks plus an additional 2nd in 2022 and we only have to move down 4 spots do you take the deal or say no? 

[Au165]

To the question of who has the draft capital? Pretty much any team can get to 3 from the top 10 with a 2nd and 3rd and depending on how late a day 3 pick. With LA winning last night you now potentially are looking at Dallas, Atlanta, and Carolina all sitting right behind us with a potential QB need at 4/5/6. I know everyone will say Dallas won't go QB, but Dallas is in rebuild mode it just comes down to does Jerry know that or not. You aren't going to pay Dak 35 Million a year during a rebuild when your defense is absolutely crushed and your entire O line needs to be rebuilt as it has aged and broken down.

Trade backs are hard to get done, but this is a really weird year. I am not even sure how or if a combine will happen which may make things similar to last year in terms of teams having wildly different valuations on guys because there is less group think. I know there are some teams right now who think Slater is better than Sewell for example.

[Gdale_Bengal]

(12-18-2020, 09:36 AM)Au165 Wrote: To the question of who has the draft capital? Pretty much any team can get to 3 from the top 10 with a 2nd and 3rd and depending on how late a day 3 pick. With LA winning last night you now potentially are looking at Dallas, Atlanta, and Carolina all sitting right behind us with a potential QB need at 4/5/6. I know everyone will say Dallas won't go QB, but Dallas is in rebuild mode it just comes down to does Jerry know that or not. You aren't going to pay Dak 35 Million a year during a rebuild when your defense is absolutely crushed and your entire O line needs to be rebuilt as it has aged and broken down.

Trade backs are hard to get done, but this is a really weird year. I am not even sure how or if a combine will happen which may make things similar to last year in terms of teams having wildly different valuations on guys because there is less group think. I know there are some teams right now who think Slater is better than Sewell for example.

Slater chose to play this year and was able to show his growth as a lineman, which may make him better right now, and you can probably make that same argument about Cosmi too. But seeing as Sewell is 19, was dominant that young and raw at the position, you can probably project Sewell being the better player in about a year or 2 in the nfl and how well he develops physically it might not be close.

[*ochocincos*]

(12-18-2020, 02:30 AM)J24 Wrote: I would go with Smith and Etienne on that.
Reverse question though if Miami offers both their second RD picks plus an additional 2nd in 2022 and we only have to move down 4 spots do you take the deal or say no? 

I would take that deal.

According to the trade value chart, Pick #3 is worth 2200 points.
The #7 overall pick is worth 1500 points.
The two second rounders (38, 54) are worth 520+360=880 points.
In total, the Bengals come out ahead on that trade even without the 2022 2nd rounder.

[Au165]

(12-18-2020, 10:24 AM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Slater chose to play this year and was able to show his growth as a lineman, which may make him better right now, and you can probably make that same argument about Cosmi too. But seeing as Sewell is 19, was dominant that young and raw at the position, you can probably project Sewell being the better player in about a year or 2 in the nfl and how well he develops physically it might not be close.

Slater opted out this year so your first statement isn't really true. Slater's tape against Chase Young last year was better than anything Sewell put on tape simply because Sewell never played anyone close to as good. Sewell honestly has never faced an elite pass rusher and I think the fact people are glancing over that is a mistake. The one time he went against a solid rusher, but not an elite one on the edge, in Derrick Brown he struggled.

[Gdale_Bengal]

(12-18-2020, 11:08 AM)Au165 Wrote: Slater opted out this year so your first statement isn't really true. Slater's tape against Chase Young last year was better than anything Sewell put on tape simply because Sewell never played anyone close to as good. Sewell honestly has never faced an elite pass rusher and I think the fact people are glancing over that is a mistake. The one time he went against a solid rusher, but not an elite one on the edge, in Derrick Brown he struggled.

My bad in the first statement. I recalled watching some videos of him on tv and didn’t hear anything about him opting out. I know tge pac 10 doesn’t really have good edge rushers, but I also know that if he is as elite of an athlete as people say, given his age, he may just need reps against good edges to adjust. Hope that’s all it takes as I don’t see them moving from 3.

[Whatever]

(12-18-2020, 09:36 AM)Au165 Wrote: To the question of who has the draft capital? Pretty much any team can get to 3 from the top 10 with a 2nd and 3rd and depending on how late a day 3 pick. With LA winning last night you now potentially are looking at Dallas, Atlanta, and Carolina all sitting right behind us with a potential QB need at 4/5/6. I know everyone will say Dallas won't go QB, but Dallas is in rebuild mode it just comes down to does Jerry know that or not. You aren't going to pay Dak 35 Million a year during a rebuild when your defense is absolutely crushed and your entire O line needs to be rebuilt as it has aged and broken down.

Trade backs are hard to get done, but this is a really weird year. I am not even sure how or if a combine will happen which may make things similar to last year in terms of teams having wildly different valuations on guys because there is less group think. I know there are some teams right now who think Slater is better than Sewell for example.

Per the trade value chart, that deal only works down to pick 7.  Whoever is picking 8th would have to kick in their 4th.  There wouldn't be an easy way for 9 or 10 to make up the difference.  I think it would be very bad to give a discount to move down out of the range of getting an elite prospect.

[Au165]

(12-18-2020, 11:43 AM)Whatever Wrote: Per the trade value chart, that deal only works down to pick 7.  Whoever is picking 8th would have to kick in their 4th.  There wouldn't be an easy way for 9 or 10 to make up the difference.  I think it would be very bad to give a discount to move down out of the range of getting an elite prospect.

Ehh the trade value chart is kind of a guard rail but over the last few years has kind of been a pretty loose guide when looking at the deals that actually get done. At 10 you are probably talking a 2/3 and 2022 2 if you are being a stickler for the chart, but as I said I know last couple years there is a bit more drifting.

[*Synric*]

(12-18-2020, 11:08 AM)Au165 Wrote: Slater opted out this year so your first statement isn't really true. Slater's tape against Chase Young last year was better than anything Sewell put on tape simply because Sewell never played anyone close to as good. Sewell honestly has never faced an elite pass rusher and I think the fact people are glancing over that is a mistake. The one time he went against a solid rusher, but not an elite one on the edge, in Derrick Brown he struggled.

I know we differ on this but I hold that Slater is a guard. He will have not just sub 34 inch arms but they will be sub 33 inch like 32 3/4.

He might and it's a big might be able to hold a tackle position in the NFL but he will never be a great one. On the inside at Left Guard he has a lot better chance of being great.