Do You Want Zac Taylor Back for Year 3 (Everybody Vote Please)

[Hoofhearted]

(12-02-2020, 03:41 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Even if Zac is able to win one more game, he'll still finish his first 2 years with a .171 winning %. Other than John McKay with the expansion Buc's, what team during the SB era has ever brought back a head coach with a sub .200 win % for a 3rd year?

I thought it was insane when Mike gave Shula a 2 year extension after going 8-24, but bringing Zac back would top that, IMO.

What makes this even worse is he's really not even competitive in our division. He averages over a two touchdown loss in division (think it was something like 17.5 point differential). It's bad.  

[Bengalholic]

(12-02-2020, 04:18 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: What makes this even worse is he's really not even competitive in our division. He averages over a two touchdown loss in division (think it was something like 17.5 point differential). It's bad.  

Yeah, the only division win is against the Brownies, but he's still only 1-3 overall against them. 

[Hoofhearted]

(12-02-2020, 04:22 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Yeah, the only division win is against the Brownies, but he's still only 1-3 overall against them. 

Found where I did the math

Vs AFCN teams (1-9 record):

Point against: 300
Points for: 172
Point differential: 128
Average points against: 30
Average point for: 12.8

[Bengalholic]

(12-02-2020, 04:29 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Found where I did the math

Vs AFCN teams (1-9 record):

Point against: 300
Points for: 172
Point differential: 128
Average points against: 30
Average point for: 12.8

Holy hell, that's pathetic. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-02-2020, 11:09 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Wilson's been ok in coverage and I noticed him on a handful of pressures on the QB, but he's been bad against the run. All the LBs have.
I agree with Adeniji. He's shown enough to stick on the roster as a developmental depth guy even if the Bengals add new OL in the offseason.

The LBs are out of position quite a bit...they bite on misdirection too much. That's a sign of inexperience to me. Also, a lot times, the D line does them no favors, and blockers get to the 2nd level way too often. It's a combination of a few variables in my opinion. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-02-2020, 04:29 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Found where I did the math

Vs AFCN teams (1-9 record):

Point against: 300
Points for: 172
Point differential: 128
Average points against: 30
Average point for: 12.8

Yikes!

[Benton]

(12-02-2020, 03:41 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Even if Zac is able to win one more game, he'll still finish his first 2 years with a .171 winning %. Other than John McKay with the expansion Buc's, what team during the SB era has ever brought back a head coach with a sub .200 win % for a 3rd year?

I thought it was insane when Mike gave Shula a 2 year extension after going 8-24, but bringing Zac back would top that, IMO.

Hue and the Browns?

Wasn't he 1-31 after the first two? They didn't fire him until midway through year three. 

[*jason*]

(12-02-2020, 04:29 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Found where I did the math

Vs AFCN teams (1-9 record):

Point against: 300
Points for: 172
Point differential: 128
Average points against: 30
Average point for: 12.8

Turrible...

[Bengalholic]

(12-02-2020, 04:56 PM)Benton Wrote: Hue and the Browns?

Wasn't he 1-31 after the first two? They didn't fire him until midway through year three. 

I was talking about the actual first 2 years of being a head coach, and having the team that hired them as a rookie HC bringing them back for a 3rd year.

[Hoofhearted]

(12-02-2020, 05:00 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I was talking about the actual first 2 years of being a head coach, and having the team that hired them as a rookie HC bringing them back for a 3rd year.

Hue is still really bad (11-44-1, %.205). 

[Bengalholic]

(12-02-2020, 05:16 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Hue is still really bad (11-44-1, %.205). 

Yup.

[thillan]

My only worry, and this is probably true for every year, as its obvious that we aren't a perfect spot for anyone.. And I'm all on board for firing Zac, and I do believe that since there are only 32 openings, people will take it anyways. BUT.. this is rough for us to get the best possible candidate. These teams also will or might have openings:

Texans (Watson)
Chargers (ROY)
Jets (#1-2 pick, Lawrence or Fields)
Jags (#1-2 pick, Lawrence or Fields)
Lions (I think we are better than this one)

That puts us at #5 IMO without bringing up any other possible ones (don't see any others off the top of my head). I say #5 because of the history behind the franchise and how others know how its ran, and the fact that Burrow will be coming back from injury and already will be 24 without a full year under him. Worries me for picking the last of the bunch again.

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-30-2020, 07:34 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Obviously, I voted no.  However, as we have all become accustomed to accepting, fan opinions don't mean Jack Shit with the Brown family.

So, I'm fully expecting to see him back here next season.

Wow.  I was one of the 10 that said I wanted him back.  I see flashes of a great offensive mind, but the defensive mind just isn't cutting the mustard.  To be fair, the defense had a lot of injuries as well, but as someone pointed out, SF 49ers have more injuries and a better record.  

I guess I want to give him one more year to see how it goes, but I really dislike the offensive line coach and the defensive coordinator.  As I brought up in another thread, I don't know who would be the best candidate for DC, but I think Anarumo just is outfoxed by almost every OC. I know the subject of this is Zac but I wanted to voice my thoughts with those two.

Zac had a brief period where Burrow was being protected and the weapons that worked their way to the front of the depth chart were being very effective together.  That all fell apart against pitt.  That game was a huge disappointment for me.  The offense just did...nothing.  Having to play pitt and baltimore twice and looking like such duds against them is pretty damning evidence that he is overmatched. 

The one thing I would like to see him get is a weapon like JaMarr Chase.  I think the offensive line could be really solid if they added Joe Thuney.  See what that offense can do.  That's all I'm hoping for.  This is an offensive league and you need a team that can put of 30 on anyone to have a chance.  I think he could get the Bengals to that with the weapons I mentioned.

Get Reader back, get Waynes back, sign Alexander and WJIII, draft heavy on the defensive line and the defense might go from awful to average in one season.  I am not a big fan of Anarumo, and have a feeling he will be the fall guy...but that is why I give ZT one more year.  

[Hoofhearted]

(12-02-2020, 05:18 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Yup.

Browns did give him a third year and fired him around half way through, but the difference was the Browns really didn't want him as a long term solution since they were in full blown tanking. He also didn't get "his QB" until his third year (he got fired for how he handled that too). 

[Hoofhearted]

(12-02-2020, 05:23 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Wow.  I was one of the 10 that said I wanted him back.  I see flashes of a great offensive mind, but the defensive mind just isn't cutting the mustard.  To be fair, the defense had a lot of injuries as well, but as someone pointed out, SF 49ers have more injuries and a better record.  

I guess I want to give him one more year to see how it goes, but I really dislike the offensive line coach and the defensive coordinator.  As I brought up in another thread, I don't know who would be the best candidate for DC, but I think Anarumo just is outfoxed by almost every OC. I know the subject of this is Zac but I wanted to voice my thoughts with those two.

Zac had a brief period where Burrow was being protected and the weapons that worked their way to the front of the depth chart were being very effective together.  That all fell apart against pitt.  That game was a huge disappointment for me.  The offense just did...nothing.  Having to play pitt and baltimore twice and looking like such duds against them is pretty damning evidence that he is overmatched. 

The one thing I would like to see him get is a weapon like JaMarr Chase.  I think the offensive line could be really solid if they added Joe Thuney.  See what that offense can do.  That's all I'm hoping for.  This is an offensive league and you need a team that can put of 30 on anyone to have a chance.  I think he could get the Bengals to that with the weapons I mentioned.

Get Reader back, get Waynes back, sign Alexander and WJIII, draft heavy on the defensive line and the defense might go from awful to average in one season.  I am not a big fan of Anarumo, and have a feeling he will be the fall guy...but that is why I give ZT one more year.  

That was on full display Sunday 

For me, that was the deciding factor for how "good" he can be. Can he take a backup and make them serviceable? If so, you may have something. But since JB went down, he's had around 155 yards of offense in a game and some change. His offensive mind is not that good.

[Bengalholic]

(12-02-2020, 05:25 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Browns did give him a third year and fired him around half way through, but the difference was the Browns really didn't want him as a long term solution since they were in full blown tanking. He also didn't get "his QB" until his third year (he got fired for how he handled that too). 

Yeah, I was just talking about first time head coaches after 2 years. Hue wasn't a rookie HC with the Browns.

[BURROWorBUST]

I voted no. even though I think it might be a little harsh considering the hand that Zac's been dealt. He was a late hire. Sp, 2019 is forgivable. In 2020, did get the front office to sign some free agents to improve the defense and, w/Sua-Filo, the OLine. Then, COVID (but the entire league had to deal to it) and, worse, all of the injuries. Still, if we can sign Eric Bienemy to be the next HC, I say we should do it. His track record in KC speaks for itself.

[Wes Mantooth]

(12-02-2020, 05:25 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Browns did give him a third year and fired him around half way through, but the difference was the Browns really didn't want him as a long term solution since they were in full blown tanking. He also didn't get "his QB" until his third year (he got fired for how he handled that too). 

What's funny is that Hue should be proof that a guy like that can't get a 3rd year.

He started out 2-5-1, and their QB coach somehow managed to go 5-3 to close out the year.  They instantly improved (literally).

---Hue's record in Cleveland: 3-37-1

---Cleveland's Record Since: 19-16

If you bring Zac Taylor back for year 3 I fear he's going to be an absolute lame duck, barring any super hot start to the year.  If he's sitting at, say, 3-5 at the midway point then the writing is on the wall. (Unless the Bengals just refuse to cut bait).

Does anyone think Taylor has a good chance to start at the season strong, especially with Joe Burrow's return date in question?

And by far my biggest thing with this entire discussion:  What message are you sending to everyone in that entire building by retaining this guy?

How can you hold anyone else accountable, or to a certain standard, when you've clearly set the standard for the man in charge so terribly low?  It sends a terrible message, and tells every player, coach, and staff member that are our standards are lower here.  Whether you actually say those words or not, the message is clear.

You can never win that way.  Never.  His failures and losing will permeate throughout the enitre building.

[Benton]

(12-02-2020, 05:00 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I was talking about the actual first 2 years of being a head coach, and having the team that hired them as a rookie HC bringing them back for a 3rd year.

Ah, gotcha.

In that case, none that I know of. 

[Bengalholic]

(12-02-2020, 05:35 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: What's funny is that Hue should be proof that a guy like that can't get a 3rd year.

He started out 2-5-1, and their QB coach somehow managed to go 5-3 to close out the year.  They instantly improved (literally).

---Hue's record in Cleveland: 3-37-1

---Cleveland's Record Since: 19-16

If you bring Zac Taylor back for year 3 I fear he's going to be an absolute lame duck, barring any super hot start to the year.  If he's sitting at, say, 3-5 at the midway point then the writing is on the wall. (Unless the Bengals just refuse to cut bait).

Does anyone think Taylor has a good chance to start at the season strong, especially with Joe Burrow's return date in question?

And by far my biggest thing with this entire discussion:  What message are you sending to everyone in that entire building by retaining this guy?

How can you hold anyone else accountable, or to a certain standard, when you've clearly set the standard for the man in charge so terribly low?  It sends a terrible message, and tells every player, coach, and staff member that are our standards are lower here.  Whether you actually say those words or not, the message is clear.

You can never win that way.  Never.  His failures and losing will permeate throughout the enitre building.

If they bring Zac back, it just goes to show that nothing much has really changed. Winning can't be truly considered paramount if you bring back a guy that's created an artform out of finding different ways to lose. It's tells me that they're still not serious enough about winning, and complacency is still way too much of a comfort zone to them.