Your Top 3 fixes (Players)

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-09-2020, 05:18 PM)J24 Wrote: Twyman is an interesting case because of his size or lack of + missing a year of football he might skip to the third or 4th round. He has to nail his combine to be in the first RD.

There are not many DTs in this draft and that dude is explosive. I'm sure he will kill the combine.  No way he falls to 3rd round.  

[Hoofhearted]

Sign
Joe Thuney
Leonard Williams

Draft:
Sewell

Resign:
WJ3
Lawson

I probably did this wrong, but I think these are the highest priority items to address (Guard, T, and pass-rush...pretty much in that order))

[Geno_Can_Dunk]

Lots of scenarios ranging from super ambitious to bengal-like float around my imagination, but here's my latest, trying to keep w/in the "rules.'

Assume AJ and Shaun Williams gone, all other FA's of consequence return (maybe not Bullock, etc, but we're not getting that deep here). Cut Geno, Finney and probably XSF.

1. Sign Daryl Williams from Buffalo, cut Hart to make room. I'm calling this one of my 3 fixes. AAV around 12M but first year cap hit ~7-8M.
2. Sign WR Josh Reynolds from the Rams. Because I want him so bad? No, because I just see it happening and I'm a "accept what you can't control" kinda guy. So I've just wrapped it into my model whether I like it or not. ~5M.
3. Sign a mid-tier guard. I have some ideas of who but you guys won't like it so i'll just can it for now. I consider dumping loads on Thuney a bit of an overreaction. Or is XSF plays really well down the stretch maybe keep him.

I lost track of whether the draft counted as a fix, but it's a constant so I don't see why it should. I want to trade down to take Kwity Paye from Michigan. Assuming we're sticking w/ a 3-4, he can be a great pass rushing 5 technique that would help Hubbard and Lawson out greatly. As somebody else in this thread said, i'd rather get a badass interior rusher than an edge that just pushes one of those two guys off the roster or two the bench. Round 2 take let's say Trey Smith or Alex Leatherwood to play the other guard. Our newly acquired day 2 pick plus our third goes to DL and DB.

Would a trade down be available? I have no idea, but this is a scenario where we have a magic genie giving us three fixes, so i'm rolling w/ it. Called it my third fix if you want.

[Geno_Can_Dunk]

(12-09-2020, 06:07 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: There are not many DTs in this draft and that dude is explosive. I'm sure he will kill the combine.  No way he falls to 3rd round.  

He'd be a very interesting 2nd round pick for us. Post-combine he might not even fall that far, I agree. 

[Hoofhearted]

(12-09-2020, 11:51 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: We already have 16 million in cap committed to Waynes next season.  Let's just assume WJIII makes in the neighborhood of 8-12 million per (dependent on years, guaranteed money, and the market in a reduced cap year) and split the difference at 10 mil per.

You now have 26 million dollars committed to Waynes and WJIII in a 175 million cap year.  That is a lot of money to commit to two CB's that are nowhere near elite.

I really like Alexander, and would like to keep him as well.  But he's not going to be cheap either.  Believe it or not, Spotrac actually has his market value set at 8 mil.  I think we got a steep discount on a 1 year deal.  He's not going to go for peanuts.

You say you don't get better by on defense by losing your best parts, but you also don't improve your OL or DL by not making sacrifices at other positions.

Is WJIII worth so much to you that you'd be willing to miss out on signing a Joe Thuney?  Is he really that valuable we can choose to ignore other desperate needs?

To each their own, but I think most CB's outside of the shutdown elite, are overvalued.  If we can build a better DL, that actually gets pressure, then we can make below average to average DB's look average to good.  WJIII is a decent corner, but we have so many more pressing needs.

The Ravens do two things really well on defense: keep great edge rushers, and cycle CBs through like they change their underwear. You can never have too many of those types of players.

[Geno_Can_Dunk]

(12-09-2020, 11:51 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Is WJIII worth so much to you that you'd be willing to miss out on signing a Joe Thuney?  Is he really that valuable we can choose to ignore other desperate needs?

Yes. Even a good-not-great CB provides more value than a top of the market guard. Positional value is way higher. I know you weren't asking me but there it is anyway. 

[Geno_Can_Dunk]

(12-09-2020, 06:22 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: The Ravens do two things really well on defense: keep great edge rushers, and cycle CBs through like they change their underwear. You can never have too many of those types of players.

Right now they have two pro bowl CBs which allow them to blitz a lot. 

There are different ways to get to the passer. You can either have a great DL so you can play coverage and not blitz, or a great back end that allows you to blitz. Most teams can't fit both onto their roster. Which way we go should be based on what we can find, ie, what's available in the draft when we're picking. We don't have to make that decision ahead of time. 

[Wes Mantooth]

(12-09-2020, 06:25 PM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: Yes. Even a good-not-great CB provides more value than a top of the market guard. Positional value is way higher. I know you weren't asking me but there it is anyway. 

Burrow's knee begs to differ.

[Wes Mantooth]

(12-09-2020, 06:25 PM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: Yes. Even a good-not-great CB provides more value than a top of the market guard. Positional value is way higher. I know you weren't asking me but there it is anyway. 

We already have a good-not-great CB in Trae Waynes. 

We potentially have another average to good Mackanzie Alexander, if we choose to resign him.  Not to mention players like Darquez Denard, who are serviceable, can be had for a 4.5 million average.

We don't have one single guard signed for next year that is even close to average.

Seems incredibly unwise to throw a near 30 million at two CB's with a terrible OL, and no pass rush.  You'd be better off focusing on OL/DL in free agency and the draft, and getting by with a highly paid Waynes and a mid-tier vet (3-6 mil) and using that money elsewhere.

[Luvnit2]

Most NFL teams will be forced to cut players or force them into pay cuts due to cap going down to $175 million. Right now, we have 42 million, 31 million if you deduct a rookie draft pool. We should be able to replace 3 current 2021 cap players minimum with our draft picks.
OT - Sewall (I save keep Hart as a backup, but could cut him and save 6 million in cap money so Sewall is almost paid 100% with Hart money
Round 2 DT - cut or trade Geno and add minimum of 9 million cap money (rookie pool money already added)
Round 4 WR - Green already off books, but we need a WR with speed and many teams have found their guy in round 3 or 4, again money in rookie pool already
Cut Gio and draft a 3rd to 6th round RB to back up Mixon - Gio cuts saves 4 million and part of rookie cap, and we save cap money

So, we start with our roster by adding 7 rookies for 11 million to the 42 million (now have 31 million) we have right now, so after cuts of Geno (9 million) and Gio (4 million) we have about 44 million left after rookies signed. As of now, we keep Hart and his 6 million on books, but could cut him after training camp.

I do not see huge contracts in 2021 due to cap being reduced by 20 million dollars versus rising by 15 million as the norm

Sign Jackson for cap hit of 12 million a year (contract can be creative with bonuses and less guarantees later)
Sign Alexander for 8 million a year
Sign Joe Thuney for 13 million a year (same as Jackson, larger cap hits in later years) and cut one of our 3 million guards

We still have cap money left (14 million) and we still go to others and get them to take pay cuts due to it being the norm in the league in 2021 in my opinion. We could find a cheap vet or 2 who are good players but won't get paid in 2021 due to cap issues

But Geno has to go period, he is not worth 5 million and has a cap hit of 14 million, 5 million dead cap if we cut him.

[Geno_Can_Dunk]

(12-09-2020, 06:39 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: We already have a good-not-great CB in Trae Waynes. 

We potentially have another average to good Mackanzie Alexander, if we choose to resign him.  Not to mention players like Darquez Denard, who are serviceable, can be had for a 4.5 million average.

We don't have one single guard signed for next year that is even close to average.

Seems incredibly unwise to throw a near 30 million at two CB's with a terrible OL, and no pass rush.  You'd be better off focusing on OL/DL in free agency and the draft, and getting by with a highly paid Waynes and a mid-tier vet (3-6 mil) and using that money elsewhere.

It's not as if our only guard options are Joe Thuney or Mike Jordan. Jordan was just abysmal (and that's setting aside the question of a new OL coach). You make it sound like if we pay a CB we just have to line up Jordan again. 

Incidentally, you often point to Miami as a team that represents all of our personnel failings - and they pay two top dollar CBs. It means you don't have to pay a top dollar pass rusher, not necessarily that you have to have Mike Jordan as a starting guard. 

Not having two good CBs lost us the Cleveland game, btw. Somebody better than Phillips probably makes that play at the end. 

[JSR18]

(12-08-2020, 10:40 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We need to start drafting lineman from Wisconsin. I think Zeitler was there, but man do they produce good lineman in the Pros.

This draft Ohio State lineman needs to change.

I'm a HUGE Ohio State fan, but I've been saying this for years...

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[Wes Mantooth]

(12-09-2020, 06:51 PM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: Incidentally, you often point to Miami as a team that represents all of our personnel failings - and they pay two top dollar CBs. It means you don't have to pay a top dollar pass rusher, not necessarily that you have to have Mike Jordan as a starting guard. 

This couldn't be futher from the truth.  Honestly, I'm taken aback that this thinking is attributed to me.

I really couldn't have been more clear anytime I bring up Miami.  I speak to what a great job Flores has done with a worse roster.  Me saying Miami represents our failings in hiring a compentent HC and staff is not at all the same as me saying I think they have a better roster.

Our roster is currently better than theirs.  I've been pretty clear on that since last year. They've positioned themselves for success through stockpiling draft picks. The fact Flores is winning now shows just how good of a coach he is.

[JSR18]

(12-09-2020, 11:51 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: We already have 16 million in cap committed to Waynes next season.  Let's just assume WJIII makes in the neighborhood of 8-12 million per (dependent on years, guaranteed money, and the market in a reduced cap year) and split the difference at 10 mil per.

You now have 26 million dollars committed to Waynes and WJIII in a 175 million cap year.  That is a lot of money to commit to two CB's that are nowhere near elite.

I really like Alexander, and would like to keep him as well.  But he's not going to be cheap either.  Believe it or not, Spotrac actually has his market value set at 8 mil.  I think we got a steep discount on a 1 year deal.  He's not going to go for peanuts.

You say you don't get better by on defense by losing your best parts, but you also don't improve your OL or DL by not making sacrifices at other positions.

Is WJIII worth so much to you that you'd be willing to miss out on signing a Joe Thuney?  Is he really that valuable we can choose to ignore other desperate needs?

To each their own, but I think most CB's outside of the shutdown elite, are overvalued.  If we can build a better DL, that actually gets pressure, then we can make below average to average DB's look average to good.  WJIII is a decent corner, but we have so many more pressing needs.

Agree. Outside of his rookie year, WJIII has loomed just this side of hot garbage. He's constantly in the trail position or trying to make up the 2-3 steps he's getting beat by...hard pass...

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[Wes Mantooth]

(12-09-2020, 06:51 PM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: It's not as if our only guard options are Joe Thuney or Mike Jordan. Jordan was just abysmal (and that's setting aside the question of a new OL coach). You make it sound like if we pay a CB we just have to line up Jordan again. 

And it's not as if we pay a Guard we're relegated to starting Darius Phillips either.

It's really simple, I want an above average Guard and a mid-tier, cheaper vet CB to pair with Waynes (rather than WJIII).

You make it sound as if I'm ignoring CB.  I'm not.  I just don't think we have the luxury of paying two of them.  Our OL is terrible, our DL is terrible, and our LB's are terrible.  We need help elsewhere.

[*bfine32*]

(12-09-2020, 07:02 PM)JSR18 Wrote: Agree. Outside of his rookie year, WJIII has loomed just this side of hot garbage. He's constantly in the trail position or trying to make up the 2-3 steps he's getting beat by...hard pass...

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Actually his 2nd year, but I agree he has regressed, but how much of that and our other CB play can be tied to the fact that we but less pressure on a QB that a hotel shower head.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(12-08-2020, 04:29 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: May I ask why you thumbs down my post when 2 of my 3 suggestions are pretty much identical to yours?

Do you really hate spending 4 mil more on Hunter Henry than CJ Uzomah that much?

I hit the wrong button.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(12-08-2020, 04:48 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: FYI: All of that money is already accounted for in the projected 41.7 million in cap space.  None are under contract, and letting them walk doesn't add to our space.  It just prevents us from using some of it on them.

Only way you're opening up money in addition to that figure is by cuts or trades.

Yeah, you are correct on the capology. My post did not go into that much detail. It was going to be longer/more detailed, but I wimped out on it.

Does the $41 mil count rollover cap? And include draft picks?

[THE PISTONS]

Leonard William's is mainly a run stuff and limited pass rusher. He is projected to make like $17 mill a year.

I'd pass.

[*bfine32*]

(12-09-2020, 11:05 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Leonard William's is mainly a run stuff and limited pass rusher. He is projected to make like $17 mill a year.

I'd pass.

A limited pass rusher with 8.5 sacks this year. Our Team has 13