Rating the Starters

[CanadianBengal]

The Bengals roster lacks impact players and has too many sub-par starters. Adding a few elite players (Sewell, Thuney) could allow some other players to elevate their play. Need some players to emerge next year with improved play for this team to take a major step

5 - Top five player at the position -- All Pro- Opposing teams need to game plan around this player
4 - Above average player (top 15)at the position - Pro Bowl alternate some years - Consistently performs week to week
3- Average to serviceable starter (top 32) at position - dependendable but needs support with some plays
2 - Useful back-up --spot starter - salary matches amount of playing time
1 - Only on roster as a developmental player or bottom of roster with a minimum salary

QB - Burrows - ranking 4 - this is a projection -- but big question is will he emerge as a 5

RB - Mixon - ranking 4 - very good player but not a 5 as rarely has carried the team to a victory

WR 1 - Green - Ranking 3 - still drew top corner - but lacks explosiveness and salary way beyond production
WR 2 - Boyd -- Ranking 4- Boyd is great but not a dominant WR
WR 3 - Higgins - Ranking 3/4 - Could emerge as 4 if offense grows around him


TE 1 - Uzomah/Sample - Ranking 2 - both are solid back-ups

LT- Williams - Ranking 3 - may move up to a 4 and his play would improve with better linemantes
RT - Hart - Ranking 1/2 - plays like a 2 but his salary decreases his value
LG/RG - Spain, XSF, Jordan - ranking 2 - with decent support around them Spain may elevate, Jordan young but needs to improve
C - Hopkins -ranking 2 - with better players on either side of him - may be serviceable starter

DE - Lawson - ranking 3 - his rookie year raised hope but he just doesn't seem to make much impact
DE- Hubbard - ranking 3 - solid player
DT- Atkins - Ranking - was a five but now a 1/2 - not sure if it is playing time, injury. fit or what but he disappeared and is expensive
DR - Reader - Ranking 3 -- was a 4 in Houston but played like a 3 here -- improving his linemates may allow him to elevate

OLB- Pratt -Ranking 2/3- really hasn't established himself as a true starter --didn't take jump in year two (Bengal LB's rarely do)
ILB - Bynes - Ranking 2 - is a solid back-up
OLB- Wilson - Ranking 2/3 - has looked good at times needs to make jump in year two (see Pratt comment)

CB- Waynes - Ranking 3/4 - hard to comment on him due to injury but is paid like a 4 and his play in Minny was definitely a 3
CB - WJIII - Ranking 3/4 - I struggled with how to rank him -- sometimes he looks great and then gets beat or takes bad penalties
SCB- Alexander - Ranking 3 - serviceable as a slot CB
SS- Bell - Ranking 3 - He's solid --play has improved over the course of the year
FS - Bates - Ranking 5 - Best safety in the league --legit star

P - Huber -- ranking 3 -- solid
K- Bullock ranking 2 - not good enough

Have at it

[THE PISTONS]

(12-19-2020, 12:49 PM)CanadianBengal Wrote: The Bengals roster lacks impact players and has too many sub-par starters. Adding a few elite players (Sewell, Thuney) could allow some other players to elevate their play. Need some players to emerge next year with improved play for this team to take a major step

5 - Top five player at the position -- All Pro- Opposing teams need to game plan around this player
4 - Above average player (top 15)at the position - Pro Bowl alternate some years - Consistently performs week to week
3- Average to serviceable starter (top 32) at position - dependendable but needs support with some plays
2 - Useful back-up --spot starter - salary matches amount of playing time
1 - Only on roster as a developmental player or bottom of roster with a minimum salary

QB - Burrows - ranking 4 - this is a projection -- but big question is will he emerge as a 5

RB - Mixon - ranking 4 - very good player but not a 5 as rarely has carried the team to a victory

WR 1 - Green - Ranking 3 - still drew top corner - but lacks explosiveness and salary way beyond production
WR 2 - Boyd -- Ranking 4- Boyd is great but not a dominant WR
WR 3 - Higgins - Ranking 3/4 - Could emerge as 4 if offense grows around him


TE 1 - Uzomah/Sample - Ranking 2 - both are solid back-ups

LT- Williams - Ranking 3 - may move up to a 4 and his play would improve with better linemantes
RT - Hart - Ranking 1/2 - plays like a 2 but his salary decreases his value
LG/RG - Spain, XSF, Jordan - ranking 2 - with decent support around them Spain may elevate, Jordan young but needs to improve
C - Hopkins -ranking 2 - with better players on either side of him - may be serviceable starter

DE - Lawson - ranking 3 - his rookie year raised hope but he just doesn't seem to make much impact
DE- Hubbard - ranking 3 - solid player
DT- Atkins - Ranking - was a five but now a 1/2 - not sure if it is playing time, injury. fit or what but he disappeared and is expensive
DR - Reader  - Ranking 3 -- was a 4 in Houston but played like a 3 here -- improving his linemates may allow him to elevate

OLB- Pratt -Ranking 2/3- really hasn't established himself as a true starter --didn't take jump in year two (Bengal LB's rarely do)
ILB - Bynes - Ranking 2 - is a solid back-up
OLB- Wilson - Ranking 2/3 - has looked good at times needs to make jump in year two (see Pratt comment)

CB- Waynes - Ranking 3/4 - hard to comment on him due to injury but is paid like a 4 and his play in Minny was definitely a 3
CB - WJIII - Ranking 3/4 - I struggled with how to rank him -- sometimes he looks great and then gets beat or takes bad penalties
SCB- Alexander - Ranking 3 - serviceable as a slot CB
SS- Bell - Ranking 3 - He's solid --play has improved over the course of the year
FS - Bates - Ranking 5 - Best safety in the league --legit star

P - Huber -- ranking 3 -- solid
K- Bullock ranking 2 - not good enough

Have at it

I think Burrow is a 3+ now with great potential to hopefully be a 4 and 5.

Mixon? Gotta be a 3. Our running game has struggled for 2 years. Yeah it's probably the line somewhat, but results are results.

Green is a 2 on most teams at this point. Top 32 player is WR 1.

Boyd and Higgins arent both Top 15 wrs. They'd likely be 3s on your scale.

Other than those, your ol and defense look good to me.

Coaching -1. That's the big one. Worst staff in the league.

[No-huddle Joe]

Coaching---0 Even Dave Shula wouldn't have hired these guys.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-20-2020, 10:51 PM)No-huddle Joe Wrote: Coaching---0     Even Dave Shula wouldn't have hired these guys.

Yeah. It's hard to evaluate a roster when coaching is this bad.

[Bengalfan4life27c]

(12-19-2020, 12:49 PM)CanadianBengal Wrote: The Bengals roster lacks impact players and has too many sub-par starters. Adding a few elite players (Sewell, Thuney) could allow some other players to elevate their play. Need some players to emerge next year with improved play for this team to take a major step

5 - Top five player at the position -- All Pro- Opposing teams need to game plan around this player
4 - Above average player (top 15)at the position - Pro Bowl alternate some years - Consistently performs week to week
3- Average to serviceable starter (top 32) at position - dependendable but needs support with some plays
2 - Useful back-up --spot starter - salary matches amount of playing time
1 - Only on roster as a developmental player or bottom of roster with a minimum salary

QB - Burrows - ranking 4 - this is a projection -- but big question is will he emerge as a 5

RB - Mixon - ranking 4 - very good player but not a 5 as rarely has carried the team to a victory

WR 1 - Green - Ranking 3 - still drew top corner - but lacks explosiveness and salary way beyond production
WR 2 - Boyd -- Ranking 4- Boyd is great but not a dominant WR
WR 3 - Higgins - Ranking 3/4 - Could emerge as 4 if offense grows around him


TE 1 - Uzomah/Sample - Ranking 2 - both are solid back-ups

LT- Williams - Ranking 3 - may move up to a 4 and his play would improve with better linemantes
RT - Hart - Ranking 1/2 - plays like a 2 but his salary decreases his value
LG/RG - Spain, XSF, Jordan - ranking 2 - with decent support around them Spain may elevate, Jordan young but needs to improve
C - Hopkins -ranking 2 - with better players on either side of him - may be serviceable starter

DE - Lawson - ranking 3 - his rookie year raised hope but he just doesn't seem to make much impact
DE- Hubbard - ranking 3 - solid player
DT- Atkins - Ranking - was a five but now a 1/2 - not sure if it is playing time, injury. fit or what but he disappeared and is expensive
DR - Reader  - Ranking 3 -- was a 4 in Houston but played like a 3 here -- improving his linemates may allow him to elevate

OLB- Pratt -Ranking 2/3- really hasn't established himself as a true starter --didn't take jump in year two (Bengal LB's rarely do)
ILB - Bynes - Ranking 2 - is a solid back-up
OLB- Wilson - Ranking 2/3 - has looked good at times needs to make jump in year two (see Pratt comment)

CB- Waynes - Ranking 3/4 - hard to comment on him due to injury but is paid like a 4 and his play in Minny was definitely a 3
CB - WJIII - Ranking 3/4 - I struggled with how to rank him -- sometimes he looks great and then gets beat or takes bad penalties
SCB- Alexander - Ranking 3 - serviceable as a slot CB
SS- Bell - Ranking 3 - He's solid --play has improved over the course of the year
FS - Bates - Ranking 5 - Best safety in the league --legit star

P - Huber -- ranking 3 -- solid
K- Bullock ranking 2 - not good enough

Have at it

Wilson is a 3 to a 4. ADG needs to replace Bynes or Pratt. 2 to 3 Hopkins is a 3 as well

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

That's about right....maybe overrated a couple....this roster has been declining for years now.

[No-huddle Joe]

(12-20-2020, 10:55 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah. It's hard to evaluate a roster when coaching is this bad.

Exactly.  Look what happened to Carlos when he left.  If you were rating him based on how he was playing here, and how he is playing at Seattle, it would be two different ratings.  I'm not saying every player would be better, but I believe that some of these guys are not being used to their strengths, and not in positions that they are better suited at.  I have a feeling we have at least one more year of this misery.

[impactplaya]

How many current Bengals could start for other AFC
NORTH teams right now? I will give you a hint...not too many.

Bates and Boyd could. Probally Jackson.
Thats about it.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-21-2020, 12:05 PM)impactplaya Wrote: How many current Bengals could start for other AFC
NORTH teams right now? I will give you a hint...not too many.

Bates and Boyd could. Probally Jackson.
Thats about it.

Yup, I said in another thread, we have 3 or 4 legit players...and Bates and Boyd are two of them. I'd go Burrow, then maybe Higgins. After that, it's some serviceable guys, some backup quality guys, and some that shouldn't be on a game day roster, let alone starting.

[impactplaya]

(12-21-2020, 12:09 PM)Wyche Wrote: Yup, I said in another thread, we have 3 or 4 legit players...and Bates and Boyd are two of them. I'd go Burrow, then maybe Higgins. After that, it's some serviceable guys, some backup quality guys, and some that shouldn't be on a game day roster, let alone starting.

On game day the Bengals have 2 things that as a organization
It.cannot overcome currently.....the other teams have better schemes and better talent. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-21-2020, 12:34 PM)impactplaya Wrote: On game day the Bengals have 2 things that as a organization
It.cannot overcome currently.....the other teams have better schemes and better talent. 

Yep. 

[THE PISTONS]

(12-21-2020, 12:09 PM)Wyche Wrote: Yup, I said in another thread, we have 3 or 4 legit players...and Bates and Boyd are two of them. I'd go Burrow, then maybe Higgins. After that, it's some serviceable guys, some backup quality guys, and some that shouldn't be on a game day roster, let alone starting.

Yep. We're every bit a 2.5 win team.

Now, fix our scheme, and get coaches who coach fundamentals and technique and maybe some other guys blossom.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-21-2020, 01:48 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yep. We're every bit a 2.5 win team.

Now, fix our scheme, and get coaches who coach fundamentals and technique and maybe some other guys blossom.

One can hope....

[THE PISTONS]

(12-21-2020, 01:49 PM)Wyche Wrote: One can hope....

After that Elise Jesse article of how coaches don't drill fundamentals, etc...IF they keep these guys...Zac included...it's the most inept thing I will have seen them do.

[*ochocincos*]

I will only list the guys as starters who I think should/will be kept in that role for 2021.

5:
Bates

4:
Boyd
Higgins
Burrow
WJ3 (if re-signed)
Reader
Lawson (if re-signed)
Mixon

3:
Jonah Williams (only because he's not Top 15 yet, but I think will get to 4)
Hopkins
Sample
Waynes
Hubbard
Bell (if you wanted to argue 4 because of distinguish between SS and FS, I could accept that)
Phillips (from slot only)

2:
Wilson
Pratt

[bengals67]

Bottom line

Roster is poor and coaches and personnel department are worse.

One reason why the roster is so poor.

Poor player selection and poor player development.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-21-2020, 01:53 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I will only list the guys as starters who I think should/will be kept in that role for 2021.

5:
Bates

4:
Boyd
Higgins
Burrow
WJ3 (if re-signed)
Reader
Lawson (if re-signed)
Mixon

3:
Jonah Williams (only because he's not Top 15 yet, but I think will get to 4)
Hopkins
Sample
Waynes
Hubbard
Bell (if you wanted to argue 4 because of distinguish between SS and FS, I could accept that)
Phillips (from slot only)

2:
Wilson
Pratt

Those are guys to consider keeping for sure. I don't have Mixon real high, but that's due to results. Is it him, or the blocking? I say blocking, but ya never know.  I'm not real high on WJIII or Lawson either, but that may be due to performance around them. Maybe better players around them make them "legit" instead of "a guy". Chances are, that's the case, but still a bit of a gamble. I also think Williams will be ok, he's just average right now.

The cats that are succeeding despite a poor cast around them are the ones I'm calling "legit", and to me, that's the four I named.

[*ochocincos*]

(12-21-2020, 02:01 PM)Wyche Wrote: Those are guys to consider keeping for sure. I don't have Mixon real high, but that's due to results. Is it him, or the blocking? I say blocking, but ya never know.  I'm not real high on WJIII or Lawson either, but that may be due to performance around them. Maybe better players around them make them "legit" instead of "a guy". Chances are, that's the case, but still a bit of a gamble. I also think Williams will be ok, he's just average right now.

The cats that are succeeding despite a poor cast around them are the ones I'm calling "legit", and to me, that's the four I named.

Mixon put up 1400+ yards both in 2018 and 2019, so I have confidence he's a 4.

Depending on definition, I guess Boyd and Higgins may not be a 4 since neither are Top 15 when it comes to WRs.
But given both are in the Top 30, I felt it was appropriate to put them both as 4.

Only the following teams have two players in the Top 30 receiving yards:
KC (Kelce, Hill)
CAR (Moore, Anderson)
BUF (Diggs, Beasley)
SEA (Metcalf, Lockett)
LAR (Woods, Kupp)
HOU (Fuller, Cooks)
DAL (Cooper, Lamb)
TEN (Brown, Davis)
CIN (Boyd, Higgins)

Lawson is Top 5 in pressures, so that's why I put him there.
WJ3 I could see arguing as 3+. He's very close to being Top 15 CB. He's 18th best CB in coverage and 21st best CB overall according to PFF.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-21-2020, 02:16 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Mixon put up 1400+ yards both in 2018 and 2019, so I have confidence he's a 4.

Depending on definition, I guess Boyd and Higgins may not be a 4 since neither are Top 15 when it comes to WRs.
But given both are in the Top 30, I felt it was appropriate to put them both as 4.

Only the following teams have two players in the Top 30 receiving yards:
KC (Kelce, Hill)
CAR (Moore, Anderson)
BUF (Diggs, Beasley)
SEA (Metcalf, Lockett)
LAR (Woods, Kupp)
HOU (Fuller, Cooks)
DAL (Cooper, Lamb)
TEN (Brown, Davis)
CIN (Boyd, Higgins)

Lawson is Top 5 in pressures, so that's why I put him there.
WJ3 I could see arguing as 3+. He's very close to being Top 15 CB. He's 18th best CB in coverage and 21st best CB overall according to PFF.

Oh, I'm seeing your points, and pretty much in agreement. Mixon looked kinda meh this year, but I think it's mostly due to poor blocking and not running a lot...not going off 18 or 19.

Same goes for Lawson and Will Jax... there has been no one else on the dline doing much of anything. To me, that makes it tough on Lawson, and makes it hard to truly evaluate the secondary and backers. Like you, I think those two are better than they have shown, but results are results.

Bates has played out of his mind, Higgins and Boyd are having good seasons, even without JB. We all saw what Joe was doing....those are my four "legit" guys.

[CanadianBengal]

(12-21-2020, 02:01 PM)Wyche Wrote: Those are guys to consider keeping for sure. I don't have Mixon real high, but that's due to results. Is it him, or the blocking? I say blocking, but ya never know.  I'm not real high on WJIII or Lawson either, but that may be due to performance around them. Maybe better players around them make them "legit" instead of "a guy". Chances are, that's the case, but still a bit of a gamble. I also think Williams will be ok, he's just average right now.

The cats that are succeeding despite a poor cast around them are the ones I'm calling "legit", and to me, that's the four I named.

Good point -- for WRs top 15 is probably not fair to be a 4 given most teams will not have 2 players in top 15. Top 30 makes sense to score a 4. I think Boyd and Higgens can be the top 2 WR for this team. A solid number WR3 who has speed to stretch the D would round out this team. I don't think it needs to be an early pick but a guy like Marvin Jones ( at least Marvin when he played for the Bengals) -- lots of holes on this team though-- not one position group is set.  We seem to draft a lot of LB's in the third round and none of emerged as sure fire starters. CB may be set if Alexander and WJIII come back --if we lose both it is a position of need. Hell we even need a kicker