Let talk Tackles

[SuperBowlBound!]

(02-16-2021, 08:59 PM)pulses Wrote: They have another OG Tommy Kraemer who should be available on day 3 who should be a starter somewhere as well.

I like him as well at Guard. He will be available on day 3. Maybe we can draft him and Peyton Ramsey as a backup QB.

[Benton]

(02-16-2021, 09:47 PM)pulses Wrote: I would even draft a LT late in the draft.....Kayode Awosika OT would be a steal and he has experience on both sides.

I'd be ok with that.

Hell, if we get the right guys, I'd be ok with taking tackles in 1 & 2. But it's gotta be the right two guys. 

[pulses]

(02-16-2021, 11:53 PM)Benton Wrote: I'd be ok with that.

Hell, if we get the right guys, I'd be ok with taking tackles in 1 & 2. But it's gotta be the right two guys. 

Trade back and take Darrisaw in 1 and then Teven Jenkins/Spencer Brown in 2?  Move Jonah to LG?

[pulses]

(02-16-2021, 11:03 PM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: I like him as well at Guard. He will be available on day 3. Maybe we can draft him and Peyton Ramsey as a backup QB.

I like Ramsey and I'm sure he can be had late in the draft.

[fredtoast]

(02-16-2021, 10:49 PM)samhain Wrote: So you think he's good, then?

He is a solid starting Tackle.  It seems everyone here is still judging him based on 2018.  Over the last two seasons his numbers for sacks allowed. penalties, and pressures allowed place him in the top half of all starting tackles in the league.

Reminds me a lot of when Andre Smith stared playing like one of the top RTs in the league (much better than Hart is now) and most people around here still mocked him as a bum based on how he played his first two seasons.

And if you want to judge a player just by clips of his 5 or 6 worst plays of the season then I can make Burrow look like a bum also.

[SunsetBengal]

(02-16-2021, 11:53 PM)Benton Wrote: I'd be ok with that.

Hell, if we get the right guys, I'd be ok with taking tackles in 1 & 2. But it's gotta be the right two guys. 

The last time that the Bengals took a pair of Tackles to begin a draft, the results were disastrous.  Tyler Kroft was the "star" of that draft class..

[fredtoast]

(02-17-2021, 12:43 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The last time that the Bengals took a pair of Tackles to begin a draft, the results were disastrous.  Tyler Kroft was the "star" of that draft class..

And the last time we took a WR or O-lineman in the first round the results were bad.

Does that mean we can't do it again?

[Benton]

(02-17-2021, 12:43 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The last time that the Bengals took a pair of Tackles to begin a draft, the results were disastrous.  Tyler Kroft was the "star" of that draft class..

Gotta be the right two. I hated the og pick. 

[SunsetBengal]

(02-17-2021, 02:11 PM)Benton Wrote: Gotta be the right two. I hated the og pick. 

They need to catch a break with this streak of less than stellar 1st round draft picks.

[XenoMorph]

(02-17-2021, 02:18 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: They need to catch a break with this streak of less than stellar 1st round draft picks.

ill give them passes on injuries and such...  But none of these linemen have panned out recently.   
now if it is a talent evaluation or coaching issue i cant know.   its not like we are drafting names no one has heard of these guys were listed toward the top of their positions. so its hard to think everyone was wrong about the player but it happens.. players dont always translate.

[SuperBowlBound!]

(02-17-2021, 12:24 AM)pulses Wrote: I like Ramsey and I'm sure he can be had late in the draft.

Ramsey will be an un-drafted free agent.

[Joelist]

As much as I would like Kyle Pitts, I keep going back to what I saw watching every game this last season (I foolishly sprung for NFL Sunday Ticket). And that was us as the season went on having the TE our a back inline on almost every passing down; and of those the vast majority of the time the additional blocker was lined up next to Hart. Drafting Pitts just to have him condemned to helping a tackle who apparently can’t play on an island is wasteful. Nor does it help that Taylor’s favored offensive system seems to be like the Rams where the TE is typically inline.

Now if we use Free Agency to set ourselves up with having BOTH tackle spots capable of playing without constant assistance then a Kyle Pitts suddenly gives us a Travis Kelce type of threat.

[fredtoast]

(02-17-2021, 10:16 PM)Joelist Wrote: And that was us as the season went on having the TE our a back inline on almost every passing down; and of those the vast majority of the time the additional blocker was lined up next to Hart. Drafting Pitts just to have him condemned to helping a tackle who apparently can’t play on an island is wasteful. 

This is the second time you have made these comments about Hart.  So let me repeat what I said after the first time you said it.

(02-15-2021, 02:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't see this at all.  Every team in the league uses RBs and TEs to help with pass blocking.  What makes you say Bengals do it more with Hart?  I'd be interested to see if anyone has actually studied this. 

[Joelist]

Like I said, it comes from watching every game of the season in some detail due to having popped for NFL Sunday Ticket. If you want to go research it you're welcome to try but I have no idea what sports site is going to show something like that.

[fredtoast]

(02-18-2021, 01:45 AM)Joelist Wrote: Like I said, it comes from watching every game of the season in some detail due to having popped for NFL Sunday Ticket. If you want to go research it you're welcome to try but I have no idea what sports site is going to show something like that.

I do watch a lot of football and I see every team using TEs and RBs to help with pass blocking.  And I also have seen many plays where Hart does not have help.

I know PFF keeps track of how often teams use 4 WR so when I get their almanac I'll post the numbers.  I just thought you might haver already had them from another source.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Fred is always looking for numbers and stats rather than watching the games. I saw the same thing as Joelist saw.

TE's mostly Sample lining up next to Hart a lot. Would be nice to have a RT that can block on an island.

Hart is not as bad as some people say and he has gotten better every year but he is not a top RT like we need.

Hart is also getting paid very well, a little too well especially if we moved him inside to Guard as some have wanted.

He is a pretty good run blocker.

I just think we brought in new Guards last year and they struggled, this could change under Pollack and an entire
year in the system. Decent Guards are easier to find than top Tackles. I think Jonah could be a top Tackle but if we
draft Sewell I think he would be on the right side and Hart is being paid too much to be a backup IMO.

[Joelist]

The Guard situation was weird last year. MJ was disastrously bad, so was Calhoun and so was Redmond. Spain fell into our laps out of the proverbial sky and when they put him at Guard instead of Tackle (where they had to a couple of games because of injuries) things got better. And when XSF got back they improved more. So I would like to keep them both AND add another truly NFL capable Guard as well as a RT who can actually play on an island on passing downs. If we drop that I become a member of the Pitts fan club - otherwise I have to stick with OT.

[fredtoast]

(02-18-2021, 04:54 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Fred is always looking for numbers and stats rather than watching the games. I saw the same thing as Joelist saw.

I watch games and I see EVERY OTHER NFL team using TE's and RBs to help in pass blocking.  I also see the Bengals run 4 WR sets with no one to help Hart at times.

[fredtoast]

(02-18-2021, 06:36 PM)Joelist Wrote:  a RT who can actually play on an island on passing downs.

Like who.

Give me a list of all the RTs who never had a TE help them in pass blocking.  Or never had a RB help in pass blocking.

I'll wait.

[SunsetBengal]

(02-18-2021, 08:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Like who.

Give me a list of all the RTs who never had a TE help them in pass blocking.  Or never had a RB help in pass blocking.

I'll wait.

See, he didn't say "never";  What he did ask for was one that could play on an island, as opposed to seemingly always needing help.

Quit playing syntax games, it's annoying.