Anyone think the Bengals will take lessons from this Super Bowl?

[Au165]

There were a lot of issues here from jump, coaching may have been the biggest. With two back up tackles, KC ran 5 man protection 92% of the time. Add to that their running. Attempts in the first half were almost non existent and they put themselves in a can’t win situation. Understand, you don’t need a great O line to win but it has to be serviceable and with their injuries the line wasn’t and they had nothing game plan wise to help hide that.

The other issue was that Tom Brady was pressured at the lowest rate of any SB he has ever played in. The reality is, KC never really sent pressure and they don’t have a 4 man front that could get home. They were getting gashed inside by Fournette which ended up allowing PA take take hold as the game progresses.

While no one will ever argue the “trenches” piece, there is a bit of a knee jerk reaction to last night. KC got out coached on both sides of the ball. Their defense was built on their corners holding every play assuming the refs can’t call them all ( old Seattle strategy) and when they started to they melted down.

[Goalpost]

The penalties were a big factor in this one. A lots of plays that affected momentum. Penalties ended up 11-4.

[*bengalfan74*]

I sure hope they learned some lessons from last season.

FIX THE LINES

[XenoMorph]

(02-08-2021, 12:26 AM)Joelist Wrote: Tampa just throttled the Chiefs and it was built on both lines. Yes Brady was Brady but Tampa's OL dominated KCs DL and KCs DL embarrassed the Chiefs OL. Brady had time to throw and the Bucs ran effectively while Mahomes was running for his life all night and the Chiefs while getting a couple of splash run plays overall were not running effectively.

You also saw what a good Defensive Coordinator can do as the Bucs defensive game plan was superb. They took away the big explosive plays and made the Chiefs play methodically, which with the dominant Tampa DL was suicide.

Will the Bengals take any notes from this?

ehhhhh.......

that experienced coaches with good staffs win SB's

[Nicomo Cosca]

congrats to anyone curious what Mahomes would look like playing for the Bengals

— Gregg Rosenthal (@greggrosenthal) February 8, 2021

Some well deserved shade thrown our way, but the first thing I think is that should tell everyone just how good Burrow is...

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

Using Pro Football Reference
Tampa Bay's O starters*

TB 1st round picks 2
TB 2nd round picks 3
TB 3rd round picks 2
Other teams' 2nd round picks 1
Other teams' 6th round picks 2

Tampa Bay's D starters
TB 1st round picks 1
TB 2nd round picks 4
TB 4th round picks 2
Other team's UDFA 1
Other team's 1st round picks 2
Other team's 6th round picks 1



Buc's 1st round picks 3 - 2014, 2019, 2020
Buc's 2nd round picks 7 - 2012, 2015, 2015, 2018, 2018, 2019, 2020
Buc's 3rd round picks 2 - 2017, 2018
Buc's 4th round picks 2 - 2013, 2018

Seems a vindication of building through the draft - those 7 second round picks in particular.

How does that compare to the Bengals? We're likely to have 3 starters who we drafted in the first round next season (at least before our first round pick's season is ended early by injury). Higgins, Boyd, Mixon, Bates, the 2021 2nd round pick and maybe Sample are all 2nd round picks. Dunlap would have been the 7th if he hadn't have been traded.
Hubbard and Logan Wilson are 3rd round starters.
Geno and Lawson (if both are still here) would be 4th round starters. If they don't maybe two of Wren/Davis-Gaither and Jordan start.

The Bucs had two former first round picks of other teams - the Bengals have one in Trae Waynes - and two other teams' second round picks - the Bengals have Vonn Bell and XSF (Mackensie Alexander was a third last year).

So sign a former first rounder (Scherff?), re-sign Lawson, keep Geno, sign some former 6th rounders in free agency then draft starters in the first and second including trade back into the second round for a second second rounder and the Bengals should be good to go all the way....

*Yes it was impressive that they won a SB with only 10

[Whatever]

(02-08-2021, 12:57 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: Using Pro Football Reference
Tampa Bay's O starters*

TB 1st round picks 2
TB 2nd round picks 3
TB 3rd round picks 2
Other teams' 2nd round picks 1
Other teams' 6th round picks 2

Tampa Bay's D starters
TB 1st round picks 1
TB 2nd round picks 4
TB 4th round picks 2
Other team's UDFA 1
Other team's 1st round picks 2
Other team's 6th round picks 1



Buc's 1st round picks 3 - 2014, 2019, 2020
Buc's 2nd round picks 7 -  2012, 2015, 2015, 2018, 2018, 2019, 2020
Buc's 3rd round picks 2 - 2017, 2018
Buc's 4th round picks 2 - 2013, 2018

Seems a vindication of building through the draft - those 7 second round picks in particular.

How does that compare to the Bengals? We're likely to have 3 starters who we drafted in the first round next season (at least before our first round pick's season is ended early by injury). Higgins, Boyd, Mixon, Bates, the 2021 2nd round pick and maybe Sample are all 2nd round picks. Dunlap would have been the 7th if he hadn't have been traded.
Hubbard and Logan Wilson are 3rd round starters.
Geno and Lawson (if both are still here) would be 4th round starters. If they don't maybe two of Wren/Davis-Gaither and Jordan start.

The Bucs had two former first round picks of other teams - the Bengals have one in Trae Waynes - and two other teams' second round picks - the Bengals have Vonn Bell and XSF (Mackensie Alexander was a third last year).

So sign a former first rounder (Scherff?), re-sign Lawson, keep Geno, sign some former 6th rounders in free agency then draft starters in the first and second including trade back into the second round for a second second rounder and the Bengals should be good to go all the way....

*Yes it was impressive that they won a SB with only 10

That's a bit misleading.  The Bucs were a 7-9 team last year.  They went out and got the GoaT QB in Tom Brady, plus Gronk, AB, and Fournette and hit on Wirfs in the 1st round of the draft.  

[higgy100]

(02-08-2021, 10:59 AM)Whatever Wrote: KC was down 3 starters on the OL, including both T's.  2 of those were former All Pro's and the other is a former Pro Bowler.  It's very difficult to overcome that kind of talent loss at a position group.  Reid did them no favors by not even trying to run the ball and making the KC offense one dimensional.  They only ran 17 times and 5 of those were Mahommes scrambling, so only 12 designed runs all game long.  TB was free to tee off all game long.

Gotta remember a big part of what they consider to be their running game are short passes/end arounds. They did come out at the start of the 2nd half and ran more.

The TO's at the end of half that KC too were criminal and determined the game, imo. They weren't doing squat and even if they got the ball back it would be with 30-35 seconds left and probably around their 15-20 yard line. They weren't throwing the ball downfield so they should have just gone into halftime feeling really lucky to just be down 8 points.

[JSR18]

Answering the OP: Nope. With ZT at the top, he needs failed HC's as coordinators.

Example: OC--Hue Jackson
DC--Wade Phillips


...and above all, ZT needs to give up play calling. He's not in Andy Reid's realm yet...

[XenoMorph]

(02-08-2021, 01:14 PM)Whatever Wrote: That's a bit misleading.  The Bucs were a 7-9 team last year.  They went out and got the GoaT QB in Tom Brady, plus Gronk, AB, and Fournette and hit on Wirfs in the 1st round of the draft.  

another big thing with TB on board they met at the bye week and dropped all the plays that were not successful from the playbook simiplifed it and then rolled thru the the rest of the season and superbowl

Mid season adjustments that worked. we dont even see half time adjustments lol

[Clark W Griswold]

(02-08-2021, 01:14 PM)Whatever Wrote: That's a bit misleading.  The Bucs were a 7-9 team last year.  They went out and got the GoaT QB in Tom Brady, plus Gronk, AB, and Fournette and hit on Wirfs in the 1st round of the draft.  

I just hope this doesn’t become a trend like in the NBA. The Bucs winning is bad for the NFL IMO. A bunch of guys teaming up to win (and it worked so credit to them) but I don’t like it. NBA only has a few teams that can compete for a championship every year and I don’t want the NFL to become that. The Bucs are the only SB team I can think of where most of their star players won’t be remembered for playing on that team after they retire.

Officiating was terrible but missing 2 starting OTs and Reid’s son’s accident doomed KC from the start.

Brady is no doubt the GOAT based on accomplishments but switch QBs and the Bucs probably put up 50 points last night.

[Luvnit2]

TB controlled the LOS and the refs controlled any possible momentum by the largest one sided hit job ordered by Goodell and the NFL in history.

Brady is awesome, he did not need refs to give his team every call and ignore the holding and punch to the head of Mahommes by one of dirtiest player in in the NFL.

But, congrats to TB, from bad team to SB winner in one year with tons of FA's.

Devon White is a beast, if Parsons is 95% as good, we need him with the 5th pick of the draft.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(02-08-2021, 01:14 PM)Whatever Wrote: That's a bit misleading.  The Bucs were a 7-9 team last year.  They went out and got the GoaT QB in Tom Brady, plus Gronk, AB, and Fournette and hit on Wirfs in the 1st round of the draft.  

Wirfs is an absolute stud. Rookie OT playing in the Super Bowl and I don’t think I noticed him once last night (which is obviously a good thing).

[Nicomo Cosca]

(02-08-2021, 01:32 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Devon White is a beast, if Parsons is 95% as good, we need him with the 5th pick of the draft.

White was great in coverage last night, but Parsons is not going to look like that here with the current state of our DL. Tampa’s had Mahomes running for his life all night.

Other than replacing WJ3 (if he leaves) the only thing we should be focusing on for that side of the ball is pass rush. At least until it’s significantly improved.

[XenoMorph]

(02-08-2021, 01:31 PM)Clark W Griswold Wrote: I just hope this doesn’t become a trend like in the NBA.  The Bucs winning is bad for the NFL IMO.  A bunch of guys teaming up to win (and it worked so credit to them) but I don’t like it. NBA only has a few teams that can compete for a championship every year and I don’t want the NFL to become that.  The Bucs are the only SB team I can think of where most of their star players won’t be remembered for playing on that team after they retire.

Officiating was terrible but missing 2 starting OTs and Reid’s son’s accident doomed KC from the start.

Brady is no doubt the GOAT based on accomplishments but switch QBs and the Bucs probably put up 50 points last night.

well any player can take less money so they can play for a good team    And if you get enough to do that its hard to compete with but you gotta have a good reasons for players to take less money.

Bucs brought in hired guns?   will people remember that in 20 years or the fact the bucs won the superbowl

[Okeana]

if you draft well and utilize free agency correctly then you win superbowls.

Oh and don't backflip and throw up peace signs in a regular-season game vs a team you could see in the Superbowl.

[*Nately120*]

(02-08-2021, 01:31 PM)Clark W Griswold Wrote: I just hope this doesn’t become a trend like in the NBA.  The Bucs winning is bad for the NFL IMO.  A bunch of guys teaming up to win (and it worked so credit to them) but I don’t like it. NBA only has a few teams that can compete for a championship every year and I don’t want the NFL to become that.  The Bucs are the only SB team I can think of where most of their star players won’t be remembered for playing on that team after they retire.

Officiating was terrible but missing 2 starting OTs and Reid’s son’s accident doomed KC from the start.

Brady is no doubt the GOAT based on accomplishments but switch QBs and the Bucs probably put up 50 points last night.

Brady was a 43 year old free agent (we certainly wouldn't have wanted him in 2020), Fournette cleared waivers, AB was on the scrapheap, and Gronkowski was retired.  I'd hardly compare that to an NBA team getting a big three.  Add in that Bruce Arians was retired, Byron Leftwich was a QB bust who was a 2nd year OC and Todd Bowles was a disgraced HC who went crawling back to his former HC and you can see how none of the individual parts of this puzzle were top-tier acquisitions.

Going into the year people (at least people I talk sports with) were amused that Brady (who didn't look too great in 2019) and Gronk off the couch were going to reconnect in TB as if they could move down to Florida like any retired couple.  My argument was that TB had to go all-in on the free agents because they were trying to move away from a record-breakingly bad year from a 1st overall pick bust QB.  

My comments about TB was that yes, they were going a little overboard with the old and retired pieces on and off the field and bolstering their team with talented locker room cancers like AB and Fournette and over the hill high-priced nut cases like Suh and Pierre Paul, but they were doing what they had to to make an immediate reboot.  Should it have worked?  Hell, after typing that out I'm amazed it worked, but it did.

Still, there are a lot of pieces to this puzzle that other franchises didn't want and the overall view of the Bucs going into this season seemed a lot more like "Ha, good luck with THAT!" than "Oh crap, they're a deadly mercenary force!"

[*SHRacerX*]

(02-08-2021, 10:18 AM)Bengalitis Wrote: The chiefs never got the running game going. That was their biggest mistake.  Reid is now 1-2 in the Bowls as HC? lost in philly & now with the chiefs (both to Brady as opposing QB, kinda like us losing to the niners 2x).

Never got it going?  CEH was avering 7 ypc, and still only ran it 9 times, and a total of 17 times vs. 49 passes.  Sure, once they fell way behind, it was air it out time, but seemed like a poor game plan.  

[*Nately120*]

(02-08-2021, 02:21 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Never got it going?  CEH was avering 7 ypc, and still only ran it 9 times, and a total of 17 times vs. 49 passes.  Sure, once they fell way behind, it was air it out time, but seemed like a poor game plan.  

Yeah, then again a gameplan of Mahommes throwing the ball all over the place to guys like Kelce and Hill usually pays off, too.  

The craziest thing is that the Bucs won a SB 5 years after busting on a #1 overall QB pick...that's impressive. 

[*ochocincos*]

On the KC side, it showed that it doesn't matter how many offensive weapons you have, you need good OL play.

On the TB side, it showed that you can go from a 7-9 team just a year ago to 11-5 and win the Super Bowl by being smart with FA.
They added the following key guys in FA in 2020:
- Tom Brady ($25 mill APY)
- Rob Gronkowski ($9.25 mill)
- Antonio Brown ($1.25 mill)
- Leonard Fournette ($2 mill)
- Re-signed Ndamukong Suh ($8 mill)

They drafted well, getting high performance from their early round draft picks Wirfs and Winfield.
Their entire secondary is being paid cheap right now, which allowed them to invest in DL and offense.

TB also went right up to their spending limit, having less than $1 mill remaining in their 2020 cap.