Will Green's collapse effect Bengals dealings with Geno?

[fredtoast]

As most of you probably remember I was against tagging Green to play in 2020. Now the team is facing the same situation with Geno. The facts are not identical, but there are a lot of similarities.

Both Green and Atkins had proven to be elite players in their prime. These type of players get more consideration when they start aging and dealing with injuries because even if they only return at 80%-90% of their previous level they would still be good, above-average players.

Green was a much bigger concern to me because there appeared to be complications with his recovery. Geno had shoulder surgery 3 months ago. The entire decision about what to do with him depends on what the doctors are saying about his shoulder. And that is something us fans will really know nothing about.

However at the time Green was injured in 2018 he was still at the top of his game. He was averaging a career high 15.1 per catch and his 85 yards per game average was the second best in his career. On the other hand Atkins appeared to be on the decline in 2019. Even though he was selected to the Pro Bowl his production dropped dramatically from 2018. He had about half as many sacks (4.5 to 10) and QB Hits (10 to 19), and less than a third as many TFL (4 to 13). Even if he did not deserve the Pro Bowl selection he was obviously still a good, above average starter. But it appeared he was in decline and in 2021 he will be two years older coming off shoulder surgery.

Despite all the questions about Atkins, if we had not just wasted $18 million on A J Green I would almost guarantee that the front office would keep Atkins under his current contract for 2021. But I'll bet the burn of that $18 mistake is still fresh in their minds.

[Gdale_Bengal]

Think most of us are cutting him. He is one of my all time favorite players but right now I want wins and play off runs. I don’t think Geno’s contract or play on the field is helping the team win, so I think he needs cut.

It’s time to get younger, and add some key veterans that have something in the tank. It should be a decent offseason this year again.

[Luvnit2]

(03-07-2021, 12:49 PM)fredtoast Wrote: As most of you probably remember I was against tagging Green to play in 2020.  Now the team is facing the same situation with Geno.  The facts are not identical, but there are a lot of similarities.

Both Green and Atkins had proven to be elite players in their prime.  These type of players get more consideration when they start aging and dealing with injuries because even if they only return at 80%-90% of their previous level they would still be good, above-average players.

Green was a much bigger concern to me because there appeared to be complications with his recovery.  Geno had shoulder surgery 3 months ago.  The entire decision about what to do with him depends on what the doctors are saying about his shoulder.  And that is something us fans will really know nothing about.

However at the time Green was injured in 2018 he was still at the top of his game.  He was averaging a career high 15.1 per catch and his 85 yards per game average was the second best in his career.  On the other hand Atkins appeared to be on the decline in 2019.  Even though he was selected to the Pro Bowl his production dropped dramatically from 2018.  He had about half as many sacks (4.5 to 10) and QB Hits (10 to 19), and less than a third as many TFL (4 to 13).  Even if he did not deserve the Pro Bowl selection he was obviously still a good, above average starter.  But it appeared he was in decline and in 2021 he will be two years older coming off shoulder surgery.

Despite all the questions about Atkins, if we had not just wasted $18 million on A J Green I would almost guarantee that the front office would keep Atkins under his current contract for 2021.  But I'll bet the burn of that $18 mistake is still fresh in their minds.

I am not sure other than age and being very good in the past there are any other similarities between Green and Geno. Green had not really played for 2 years and was not under contract, so they tagged him to keep him.

Geno is under contract and not a FA so they could cut him, restructure him adding years, but loosening guarantees lowering hos cap hit for 2021. I think Geno's play in 2020 showed he does not deserve for the Bengals to ignore his poor performance + his injuries. If Geno wants to stay a Bengal, his agent should be offering a new deal lowering his compensation. In my opinion, has nothing to do with AJ's play falling off a cliff in 2020 after being tagged.

[jfkbengals]

(03-07-2021, 01:05 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I am not sure other than age and being very good in the past there are any other similarities between Green and Geno. Green had not really played for 2 years and was not under contract, so they tagged him to keep him.

Geno is under contract and not a FA so they could cut him, restructure him adding years, but loosening guarantees lowering hos cap hit for 2021. I think Geno's play in 2020 showed he does not deserve for the Bengals to ignore his poor performance + his injuries. If Geno wants to stay a Bengal, his agent should be offering a new deal lowering his compensation. In my opinion, has nothing to do with AJ's play falling off a cliff in 2020 after being tagged.

This ^^^

Green, playing a skill position that requires repetition and timing, missed two years of that and was trying to step back in at an advanced age for the position.  Geno, meanwhile, was essentially trying to play with one arm, and that doesn't work against NFL competition.  One guy was trying to play at less than 100%, the other was trying just to get back on the field at all after missing so much time.

[SadFaceBengal15]

(03-07-2021, 12:49 PM)fredtoast Wrote: As most of you probably remember I was against tagging Green to play in 2020. Now the team is facing the same situation with Geno. The facts are not identical, but there are a lot of similarities.

Both Green and Atkins had proven to be elite players in their prime. These type of players get more consideration when they start aging and dealing with injuries because even if they only return at 80%-90% of their previous level they would still be good, above-average players.

Green was a much bigger concern to me because there appeared to be complications with his recovery. Geno had shoulder surgery 3 months ago. The entire decision about what to do with him depends on what the doctors are saying about his shoulder. And that is something us fans will really know nothing about.

However at the time Green was injured in 2018 he was still at the top of his game. He was averaging a career high 15.1 per catch and his 85 yards per game average was the second best in his career. On the other hand Atkins appeared to be on the decline in 2019. Even though he was selected to the Pro Bowl his production dropped dramatically from 2018. He had about half as many sacks (4.5 to 10) and QB Hits (10 to 19), and less than a third as many TFL (4 to 13). Even if he did not deserve the Pro Bowl selection he was obviously still a good, above average starter. But it appeared he was in decline and in 2021 he will be two years older coming off shoulder surgery.

Despite all the questions about Atkins, if we had not just wasted $18 million on A J Green I would almost guarantee that the front office would keep Atkins under his current contract for 2021. But I'll bet the burn of that $18 mistake is still fresh in their minds.

Good point but I’m letting both walk

[QueenCity]

I was under the impression that the Bengals and Atkins had agreed to part ways this off-season? Or am I wrong on that.

[lone bengal]

It’s a no brainer for them to cut Geno. Can’t pay A 32 year old declining DT on a rebuilding team big money when your needs include Guard x2, RT, WR, DE, pass rushing DT and two CB’s. On top of it we’re paying two RB’s big money, we draft a TE in round 2 and mostly run one TE sets and we’re paying Uzomah a good chunk of money along with Hart.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

I think the better comparison rather than AJ and Geno is Carlos and Geno.

I just don't think Anarumo is putting his guys in a position to succeed. If they let Geno go, get ready for him to go back to 2017-2018 form on another team.

(Side note, I have no idea what they were trying to accomplish by having Geno play one armed last year rather than just letting the guy get the surgery he needed and get back to 100% sooner.)

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-07-2021, 12:49 PM)fredtoast Wrote: As most of you probably remember I was against tagging Green to play in 2020.  Now the team is facing the same situation with Geno.  The facts are not identical, but there are a lot of similarities.

Both Green and Atkins had proven to be elite players in their prime.  These type of players get more consideration when they start aging and dealing with injuries because even if they only return at 80%-90% of their previous level they would still be good, above-average players.

Green was a much bigger concern to me because there appeared to be complications with his recovery.  Geno had shoulder surgery 3 months ago.  The entire decision about what to do with him depends on what the doctors are saying about his shoulder.  And that is something us fans will really know nothing about.

However at the time Green was injured in 2018 he was still at the top of his game.  He was averaging a career high 15.1 per catch and his 85 yards per game average was the second best in his career.  On the other hand Atkins appeared to be on the decline in 2019.  Even though he was selected to the Pro Bowl his production dropped dramatically from 2018.  He had about half as many sacks (4.5 to 10) and QB Hits (10 to 19), and less than a third as many TFL (4 to 13).  Even if he did not deserve the Pro Bowl selection he was obviously still a good, above average starter.  But it appeared he was in decline and in 2021 he will be two years older coming off shoulder surgery.

Despite all the questions about Atkins, if we had not just wasted $18 million on A J Green I would almost guarantee that the front office would keep Atkins under his current contract for 2021.  But I'll bet the burn of that $18 mistake is still fresh in their minds.

I think they are completely separate. Burrow wanted Green here so that cemented the tag.

With Geno I think he has fell off the cliff with the shoulder injuries. When you are a DT you have to be 100% in your shoulders 
to push around Guards and Centers. We need to cut Geno and free up that money to help the team. Geno will always be a Bengal
great though, our best DT maybe of all time which is saying something with Krumrie and company.

[*bengalfan74*]

Both are on my all time favorite Bengals list.

And both need to go.

[Bengalstripes9]

Hobson definitely hinted at either a Geno restructuring or release in his latest Hobson Choice. If that’s the case, he’s very likely not playing out his contract.

Geno has been one of my favorites of the last ten years. Sad to see him and Green go, but players get older I guess. Geno doesn’t fit the new scheme as well as he did the 4-3.

I’m sure Green’s season weighs in on their decision somewhat. Also a big factor is we suck, and need a youth movement.

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

I think you’d like to have him and even green back at the right price. If they want to eat up a ton of money I’m much less sure about bringing them back.

[Murdock2420]

(03-07-2021, 06:13 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: Hobson definitely hinted at either a Geno restructuring or release in his latest Hobson Choice. If that’s the case, he’s very likely not playing out his contract.

Geno has been one of my favorites of the last ten years. Sad to see him and Green go, but players get older I guess. Geno doesn’t fit the new scheme as well as he did the 4-3.

I’m sure Green’s season weighs in on their decision somewhat. Also a big factor is we suck, and need a youth movement.

If they can restructure it is absolutely the best case for the team. He is still someone other teams respect, and even at a lower level of production, he is better then a lot of guys in the league. 

Plus, you have him next to Reader and that makes it hard to double both of them. A healthy Geno with a healthy Reader could be a nice interior.

That said, you can not keep him here at his current cap number.

[*ochocincos*]

Do they have to wait for new league year to start to cut Atkins if they are going to use the post-June 1 designation?
I thought they did, but not sure.

If they don't, I don't understand why they haven't moved on from Atkins already. Cutting him after FA starts is kind of crap because that player likely isn't going to get as good of a deal compared to if he was available on Day 1 of FA.

[XenoMorph]

(03-08-2021, 10:41 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Do they have to wait for new league year to start to cut Atkins if they are going to use the post-June 1 designation?
I thought they did, but not sure.

If they don't, I don't understand why they haven't moved on from Atkins already. Cutting him after FA starts is kind of crap because that player likely isn't going to get as good of a deal compared to if he was available on Day 1 of FA.

geno was hurt to finish the year correct? maybe they have to wait till healthy to cut to avoid an injury settlement  or maybe they havent decided to move on and are exploring an extension

[*ochocincos*]

(03-08-2021, 10:45 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: geno was hurt to finish the year correct? maybe they have to wait till healthy to cut to avoid an injury settlement  or maybe they havent decided to move on and are exploring an extension

When you say extension, do you mean a restructure? I ask because Atkins still has 2 years left on his deal. No need to extend.

[XenoMorph]

(03-08-2021, 10:58 AM)ochocincos Wrote: When you say extension, do you mean a restructure? I ask because Atkins still has 2 years left on his deal. No need to extend.

Yeah or you can say add 1 year at the same total contract price.. However they want to do it.  

[*ochocincos*]

(03-08-2021, 12:52 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Yeah or you can say add 1 year at the same total contract price.. However they want to do it.  

If I'm Atkins, I'm not adding more years without adding more money. He could go to an actual contender if cut, which might be desirable given his age. Bengals probably aren't truly competing until at least 2022.

[XenoMorph]

(03-08-2021, 01:35 PM)ochocincos Wrote: If I'm Atkins, I'm not adding more years without adding more money. He could go to an actual contender if cut, which might be desirable given his age. Bengals probably aren't truly competing until at least 2022.

lol i didnt say it was likely.

[grampahol]

I'm of two minds on this. Part of me, the humanitarian part wants both to retire as Bengals and they still might, but the other side of me is the way I think of cars.. Once they cost more than they're worth it's time to move on to something better. Football, the NFL in particular is NOT an NGO dedicated to the well being of the human race. It's a business first and foremost. It's almost like hanging on to your old VCR tapes hoping that some miracle technology will make them all viable again and rival the streaming services..