Chase versus Pitts

[Bengalpool]

I almost feel bad merely because Burrow and Chase were teammates at LSU and had a connection like no other. It's almost as if the stars were aligned for us to take Chase if he were there at 5. But damn. Pitts has to be half human, half something else. If I'm a team in the top 5 NOT looking for a QB, I take Pitts and I never look back. WR's can be found in EVERY ROUND. You take Pitts and don't look back.

If we take Chase over Pitts (if both are there which I doubt at this point), I won't be upset, but it could be the pick we look back on 5 years from now. I feel both players will be solid going into the pro's, I'm just giving an edge to Pitts. He's a baller.

[Bengalpool]

Another note that some of us may be forgetting. Burrow throws his receivers open. I'm not saying they don't create separation, but our QB is WR whisperer if I ever seen one. I just feel Pitts will help put us at the top before any receiver can/will.

[Au165]

Here is something I am not sure most people talk about. Let's say Pitts gives you Kelce/Waller production on his rookie deal and Chase gives you Davante Adams/Tyreek Hill production. At the end of that contract, there is a massive difference, Pitts, as a TE will command far less money as the top of the TE market is almost 10 million less per year than the top of the WR market. If you can get elite production from both guys, from a financial standpoint it makes better sense to go with the TE. Hell, if you end up in a franchise tag situation you'd have been looking at 16 basically for a WR versus 9.5 for a TE this year as an example.

I think both can be great players, but I think the age of the elite TE is coming back, and being at the forefront of that offers a lot of advantages.

[*SHRacerX*]

I am blown away by the love for Pitts over Chase.

Doesn't fit our offensive scheme, and they aren't changing it for him.

I think the failure of Ross is too fresh in everyone's mind. But where would this team have been without Green all those years? We saw the team's record when he was injured.

[Au165]

(03-23-2021, 10:17 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I am blown away by the love for Pitts over Chase.  

Doesn't fit our offensive scheme, and they aren't changing it for him.  

I think the failure of Ross is too fresh in everyone's mind.  But where would this team have been without Green all those years?  We saw the team's record when he was injured.

Offensive scheme? The guy can literally play X. What about the "scheme" doesn't he fit? He fits every scheme in the NFL because he is a weapon and simply calling him a TE is a dated view of the game.

[Sled21]

(03-23-2021, 10:17 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I am blown away by the love for Pitts over Chase.  

Doesn't fit our offensive scheme, and they aren't changing it for him.  

I think the failure of Ross is too fresh in everyone's mind.  But where would this team have been without Green all those years?  We saw the team's record when he was injured.

Right.  And if I have Pitts and Chase even, according to each's measurables, I go with Chase, simply because he already has history and rhythm with Burrow.  JB won't have to take time learning where Chase wants the ball, or get the timing with him. It's already there. And if we are going to draft a TE basically to be a pass catcher instead of a blocker, let's just draft the receiver. 

[Au165]

(03-23-2021, 10:31 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Right.  And if I have Pitts and Chase even, according to each's measurables, I go with Chase, simply because he already has history and rhythm with Burrow.  JB won't have to take time learning where Chase wants the ball, or get the timing with him. It's already there. And if we are going to draft a TE basically to be a pass catcher instead of a blocker, let's just draft the receiver. 

A TE led the league as a pass-catcher this year. 

[Schmitbuck]

Ha, I'm the one person that picked OL (but prefer trading back if Sewell is gone). There are a lot of teams in the 20-32 range that needs OL. Every team in the NFL knows the Bengals desperately need OL that I see teams jumping them in the 2nd. I don't want to take a chance of the position being too picked through.

After OL, my 2nd choice would be Chase. I want no part of a TE in the first round, let alone at 5.

[Schmitbuck]

(03-23-2021, 10:27 AM)Au165 Wrote: Offensive scheme? The guy can literally play X. What about the "scheme" doesn't he fit? He fits every scheme in the NFL because he is a weapon and simply calling him a TE is a dated view of the game.

If you want an X receiver at 5, draft an X receiver (Chase). IMO, if the Bengals are going to draft a first round TE and are going to call him a TE, they shouldn't take a guy that's a liability as a blocker. 

[Au165]

(03-23-2021, 10:44 AM)Schmitbuck Wrote: If you want an X receiver at 5, draft an X receiver (Chase). IMO, if the Bengals are going to draft a first round TE and are going to call him a TE, they shouldn't take a guy that's a liability as a blocker. 

I could draft a guy who can be an X AND also line up inline...Chase can't do that. It's no secret, many NFL people have Pitts as the best non-QB in the draft and even with QB's have him at 2 or 3. Pitts is better at what he does than Chase is at what he does. Both are very good but there are less people in this world who are built like Pitts who can do what he does compared to Chase. Also, his blocking really isn't as bad as people pretend it is. 

[Big Boss]

They like Uzomah.
We hardly use Tight Ends.

Seems Chase is the better fit for us.

[*Synric*]

(03-23-2021, 10:27 AM)Au165 Wrote: Offensive scheme? The guy can literally play X. What about the "scheme" doesn't he fit? He fits every scheme in the NFL because he is a weapon and simply calling him a TE is a dated view of the game.

I've been saying this for a couple weeks now but it's the same "He's a TE" "TE's dont get that production as a WR" "Offense doesn't use TE's"

Kyle Pitts is a Receiver that can play TE. He is the kinda guy you can do anything with win any matchup line up anywhere. The Motions and Shift I see with Pitts the matchup issues defensive coordinators pulling out their hair.  If the Offensive minds in Cincy cannot figure out what to do with Kyle Pitts they need fired on the spot because the possibilities are endless.

There is no one in this draft class like Kyle Pitts. There was no one last year... or the year before. There will be no one next year. People complain about the use of the words "Generational Talent" That is literally Kyle Pitts.

[yang]

To me, a lot of this goes back to the projections and Chase simply has one of the best ever projections for a college WR and tied to doing that with Burrow it's borderline insanity not to draft him. I'm not going to draft Jerry Rice because of his future contract, c'mon man.

I get that people love Pitts' intangibles but Chase is simply the better safer pick. I do believe Chase is a generational talent and perennial all-pro.

Why didn't Pitts catch 20 TD's for 1800 yards last year? He 6'6"!!! He runs a 4'.46!! ????

[Au165]

(03-23-2021, 11:14 AM)yang Wrote: To me, a lot of this goes back to the projections and Chase simply has one of the best ever projections for a college WR and tied to doing that with Burrow it's borderline insanity not to draft him.  I'm not going to draft Jerry Rice because of his future contract, c'mon man.  

I get that people love Pitts' intangibles but Chase is simply the better safer pick.  I do believe Chase is a generational talent and perennial all-pro.  

Why didn't Pitts catch 20 TD's for 1800 yards last year?  He 6'6"!!!  He runs a 4'.46!!    ????

Are you trying to claim that college production predicts pro success? There is nothing in the history of the NFL that links those two things. Travis Kelce had less than 1k yards TOTAL at UC for his career and he just was 2nd in the league in receiving yards. I can give you a pretty long list of guys who had better, or comparable, single seasons as Chase and have average to horrible NFL careers too if you want.

[yang]

(03-23-2021, 11:24 AM)Au165 Wrote: Are you trying to claim that college production predicts pro success? There is nothing in the history of the NFL that links those two things. Travis Kelce had less than 1k yards TOTAL at UC for his career and he just was 2nd in the league in receiving yards. I can give you a pretty long list of guys who had better, or comparable, single seasons as Chase and have average to horrible NFL careers too if you want.

Yes, I am absolutely 100% saying there is a factually a strong statistical correlation from success in college to pros.  And I am sure you have seen further statistical breakdowns such as target share and breakout age.  This doesn't mean there isn't a range of projections and outliers, but you can pick the non-successful college guys for your team if you like.  I'll pass. 

Again, if Pitts is such and fantastic freak and outlier why were Chase's stats immensely better?   I mean, I can find lots of TE's that were worse than Pitts and draft them later and expect them to be all pro as well.  You would think that's crazy though, right?  

[Schmitbuck]

(03-23-2021, 11:12 AM)Synric Wrote: I've been saying this for a couple weeks now but it's the same "He's a TE" "TE's dont get that production as a WR" "Offense doesn't use TE's"

Kyle Pitts is a Receiver that can play TE. He is the kinda guy you can do anything with win any matchup line up anywhere. The Motions and Shift I see with Pitts the matchup issues defensive coordinators pulling out their hair.  If the Offensive minds in Cincy cannot figure out what to do with Kyle Pitts they need fired on the spot because the possibilities are endless.

There is no one in this draft class like Kyle Pitts. There was no one last year... or the year before. There will be no one next year. People complain about the use of the words "Generational Talent" That is literally Kyle Pitts.

I'm old enough to remember people calling Vernon Davis, Kellen Winslow, and Ricky Dudley generational talents. 

[Au165]

(03-23-2021, 11:47 AM)yang Wrote: Yes, I am absolutely 100% saying there is a factually a strong statistical correlation from success in college to pros.  And I am sure you have seen further statistical breakdowns such as target share and breakout age.  This doesn't mean there isn't a range of projections and outliers, but you can pick the non-successful college guys for your team if you like.  I'll pass. 

Again, if Pitts is such and fantastic freak and outlier why were Chase's stats immensely better?   I mean, I can find lots of TE's that were worse than Pitts and draft them later and expect them to be all pro as well.  You would think that's crazy though, right?  

No, there really isn't. It's not about picking "non-successful" the point is simply the stats don't tell you who the player is and doing so is a fool's errand. 

Because they played for different teams, with different schemes, alongside different personnel? Is that a serious question?

[Au165]

(03-23-2021, 12:00 PM)Schmitbuck Wrote: I'm old enough to remember people calling Vernon Davis, Kellen Winslow, and Ricky Dudley generational talents. 

You can do that with any position. Do you remember Greg Robinson? He was a sure-fire can't miss HoF ready tackle who the Rams took him 2nd overall and he was out of the NFL in a few years.

[Schmitbuck]

(03-23-2021, 12:08 PM)Au165 Wrote: You can do that with any position. Do you remember Greg Robinson? He was a sure-fire can't miss HoF ready tackle who the Rams took him 2nd overall and he was out of the NFL in a few years.

Ok, name some TEs in the last 25 years drafted in the first half of the first round that performed up to where they were picked?

[Au165]

(03-23-2021, 12:13 PM)Schmitbuck Wrote: Ok, name some TEs in the last 25 years drafted in the first half of the first round that performed up to where they were picked?

That is a failure of scouting because guys picked after them were elite. In the past, because Pitt wasn't a great (still solid) inline blocker, he would have been knocked down potentially to a 2nd or 3rd round pick in a league that was more worried about the TE being able to block. If you took Travis Kelce at 5, would you be upset? If you took Darren Waller at 5, would you be upset? 

The funny thing about all this is I actually don't think Pitts gets to us. If he does, and we pass, he will be in Philly at 6. The league as a whole recognizes this guy is elite, it really isn't even questionable.