Chase versus Pitts

[Luvnit2]

(03-24-2021, 09:29 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Sorry to flame you on this, bud, but this is exactly the problem that I have with Pitts.  People look at his size and speed (straight line) and think he will be indestructible, but Chase is a far better route runner and is very smooth in his deception.  

If everyone wants Pitts to play WR since that is his skill set, you have no idea how he will uncover against NFL safeties and CBs when he had LBs trying to cover him in college.  

And there is no way I am moving Tyler Boyd out of the slot for him, either.  

I don't agree he is a WR, just be have some WR skills. He is a TE, is young and likely can add 10 to 15 lbs. to help him take on bigger DL. It is also not like we will not draft or add a WR like Conley who compliments Boyd and Higgins well.

I am not saying you, but some are hung up on #5 draft position and say no way. I also disagree with then, it is a new era in the NFL, give me a Kelsey, Kittle or great receiving option at TE and it help Burrow have better options on quick routes so he does have to wait 3 seconds for receivers to get open.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-24-2021, 09:29 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Sorry to flame you on this, bud, but this is exactly the problem that I have with Pitts.  People look at his size and speed (straight line) and think he will be indestructible, but Chase is a far better route runner and is very smooth in his deception.  

If everyone wants Pitts to play WR since that is his skill set, you have no idea how he will uncover against NFL safeties and CBs when he had LBs trying to cover him in college.  

And there is no way I am moving Tyler Boyd out of the slot for him, either.  

False. Pitts did not always have LBs covering him. When he played outside, he did have DBs attempt to cover him, and he beat them.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(03-24-2021, 11:22 AM)ochocincos Wrote: False. Pitts did not always have LBs covering him. When he played outside, he did have DBs attempt to cover him, and he beat them.

There’s clips in this very thread of him going against Surtain.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-24-2021, 11:25 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: There’s clips in this very thread of him going against Surtain.

Yep. He's a true hybrid guy. 
Given the Bengals need an outside receiver, why not have Pitts cover that role this year and then move more toward TE after Uzomah's contract is up? They can also take a WR in Rd 3-5 to groom into that outside WR spot in 2022. This is assuming they don't get a cheap veteran in FA at this point, which is becoming more and more likely as we get further into FA.

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-24-2021, 11:22 AM)ochocincos Wrote: False. Pitts did not always have LBs covering him. When he played outside, he did have DBs attempt to cover him, and he beat them.

How many snaps did he play outside vs Chase?  Win rate?  Deep ball catch rate?  All favor Chase significantly.  

Remember how crazy everyone was when Engram ran a 4.42 as a TE?  So what?  Win rate, route running, catch success all matter more than 40 time.  

[impactplaya]

(03-24-2021, 01:23 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: How many snaps did he play outside vs Chase?  Win rate?  Deep ball catch rate?  All favor Chase significantly.  

Remember how crazy everyone was when Engram ran a 4.42 as a TE?  So what?  Win rate, route running, catch success all matter more than 40 time.  

Dont forget Kyle Pitts has a,larger catch radius than Chase.
That still matters in todays NFL.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-24-2021, 01:23 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: How many snaps did he play outside vs Chase?  Win rate?  Deep ball catch rate?  All favor Chase significantly.  

Remember how crazy everyone was when Engram ran a 4.42 as a TE?  So what?  Win rate, route running, catch success all matter more than 40 time.  

I don't know all that info, but you are welcome to go find out and share 
And I'm not just now saying go Pitts because of his 40 time. He's an outstanding receiver anywhere on the field, and I've been saying he's really good for months now.
He's my preferred pass catcher at 5 over Chase, Smith, or Waddle.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-24-2021, 01:50 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Dont forget Kyle Pitts has a,larger catch radius than Chase.
That still matters in todays NFL.

I almost feel like those who really want a WR at 5 are thinking about the team returning to the offense like back in mid-2000's with Palmer at QB, Chad, Housh, and Henry being the top 3 WRs, Rudi in the backfield, and a blocking TE.
Over 3000 yards between just those 3 receivers in 2006, with Rudi rushing for over 1300 and Palmer throwing for over 4000.

It's not a bad strategy by any means, but I just prefer an offense that has more emphasis on pass catching TEs.

[*Synric*]

(03-24-2021, 09:29 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Sorry to flame you on this, bud, but this is exactly the problem that I have with Pitts.  People look at his size and speed (straight line) and think he will be indestructible, but Chase is a far better route runner and is very smooth in his deception.  

If everyone wants Pitts to play WR since that is his skill set, you have no idea how he will uncover against NFL safeties and CBs when he had LBs trying to cover him in college.  

And there is no way I am moving Tyler Boyd out of the slot for him, either.  

In the twitter thread I posted earlier in this thread it shows Kyle Pitts beating both Patrick Surtain II a top 10 pick and Jaycee Horn another 1st round prospect. In 2019 He beats Derek Stingley (2022 top 10 prospect) and Browns 2nd round pick at Safety Grant Delpit.

[Au165]

(03-24-2021, 09:29 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Sorry to flame you on this, bud, but this is exactly the problem that I have with Pitts.  People look at his size and speed (straight line) and think he will be indestructible, but Chase is a far better route runner and is very smooth in his deception.  

If everyone wants Pitts to play WR since that is his skill set, you have no idea how he will uncover against NFL safeties and CBs when he had LBs trying to cover him in college.  

And there is no way I am moving Tyler Boyd out of the slot for him, either.  

You never answered my question, what route can't he run? I ask because he practiced the last year with WR's at Florida and ran their route trees in practice every day, and it all transferred to the tape. I got video clips of him running various level digs, Bang 8's, slants, corners, fades, wheel routes, whip routes, and these are against high-end corners too, not just linebackers. He is a CRISP route runner and runs many of them with the nuance of very high-end WR's, showing an ability to set up routes as the game progresses. 

[Au165]

(03-24-2021, 02:29 PM)Synric Wrote: In the twitter thread I posted earlier in this thread it shows Kyle Pitts beating both Patrick Surtain II a top 10 pick and Jaycee Horn another 1st round prospect. In 2019 He beats Derek Stingley (2022 top 10 prospect) and Browns 2nd round pick at Safety Grant Delpit.

Seriously, it's funny because I have not seen a TE prospect get as much coverage from a team's top corner in a long time. You can tell teams felt he was the most dangerous threat on the team, and that is saying something because Toney is no slouch himself.

[yang]

(03-24-2021, 02:50 PM)Au165 Wrote: Seriously, it's funny because I have not seen a TE prospect get as much coverage from a team's top corner in a long time. You can tell teams felt he was the most dangerous threat on the team, and that is saying something because Toney is no slouch himself.

Pitts is still a Tight End and not a starting X receiver.  Despite all the intangibles people are going to have Chase higher and the #1 non-QB on the board imho.  Who knows what the Bengals are thinking,  but if he is there I don't see them passing and will take Oline in the 2nd.  

[*ochocincos*]

(03-24-2021, 04:38 PM)yang Wrote: Pitts is still a Tight End and not a starting X receiver.  Despite all the intangibles people are going to have Chase higher and the #1 non-QB on the board imho.  Who knows what the Bengals are thinking,  but if he is there I don't see them passing and will take Oline in the 2nd.  

There is talk that some experts/teams don't even have Chase as the top WR, let alone top non-QB. Part of that could be because he hasn't played since winning that National Championship though.

[Au165]

(03-24-2021, 04:38 PM)yang Wrote: Pitts is still a Tight End and not a starting X receiver.  Despite all the intangibles people are going to have Chase higher and the #1 non-QB on the board imho.  Who knows what the Bengals are thinking,  but if he is there I don't see them passing and will take Oline in the 2nd.  

Some people may have Chase higher, but PLENTY of people have Pitts as the 2nd best player in the draft behind only Lawrence. Funny enough, there are people that have Smith over Chase, so the idea Chase is this clearly superior player is odd. 

Off the top of my head, people who have Pitts over Chase currently:

NFL.com
The Draft Network
Lance Zerlin
Gill Brandt
Jordan Reid
Todd McShay
Mel Kiper
Danielle Jeremiah

I'm sure there are more but those are just the guys I can remember.

[*Synric*]

(03-24-2021, 04:38 PM)yang Wrote: Pitts is still a Tight End and not a starting X receiver.  Despite all the intangibles people are going to have Chase higher and the #1 non-QB on the board imho.  Who knows what the Bengals are thinking,  but if he is there I don't see them passing and will take Oline in the 2nd.  

"Starting X Receiver" All the Boundary receivers will end up taking snaps at all 3 positions X, Z, and Y. Kyle Pitts can win as an X has shown it against the best college football has to offer. He can win in the slot, he can win as an TE-F, and TE-Y.


Most people agains't Pitts are stuck on his "Tight End" tag don't view him as a TE think of everything he can do. How he can transform your offense. Pitts instantly becomes the most dynamic piece on a offense that you can build around.

[yang]

(03-24-2021, 05:00 PM)Synric Wrote: "Starting X Receiver" All the Boundary receivers will end up taking snaps at all 3 positions X, Z, and Y. Kyle Pitts can win as an X has shown it against the best college football has to offer. He can win in the slot, he can win as an TE-F, and TE-Y.


Most people agains't Pitts are stuck on his "Tight End" tag don't view him as a TE think of everything he can do. How he can transform your offense. Pitts instantly becomes the most dynamic piece on a offense that you can build around.

It's def an argument that won't be decided for a few years.   I agree he is special.  It's just a WR is more valuable than a TE, and we need a WR.  to me this isn't close.   

[Essex Johnson]

(03-24-2021, 09:42 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I don't agree he is a WR, just be have some WR skills. He is a TE, is young and likely can add 10 to 15 lbs. to help him take on bigger DL. It is also not like we will not draft or add a WR like Conley who compliments Boyd and Higgins well.

I am not saying you, but some are hung up on #5 draft position and say no way. I also disagree with then, it is a new era in the NFL, give me a Kelsey, Kittle or great receiving option at TE and it help Burrow have better options on quick routes so he does have to wait 3 seconds for receivers to get open.

With your idea of getting bigger could we not say the same about Smith putting on weight which makes him more appealing than Chase and Pitts then

[Essex Johnson]

With lack FA oline picks sure seems to be Oline in 1st round and I hope so ..

[Luvnit2]

(03-24-2021, 05:56 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: With your idea of getting bigger could we not say the same about Smith putting on weight which makes him more appealing than Chase and Pitts then

Yes, but I have also said I consider Pitts a TE now and not a WR so for me it comes down to best WR or best TE in the draft. One is a clear cut best in Pitts, Chase has major competition with Smith and Waddle and others. WR is much deeper.

Also, I respect Gil Brandt and here are his overall rankings for 2021:

#2 - Sewell
#3 - Pitts
#4 - Chase

I respect the arguments and discussion for both Pitts or Chase. It is why I started this thread because to me it is very close either way.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-24-2021, 05:58 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: With lack FA oline picks sure seems to be Oline in 1st round and I hope so ..

I'm not sure the team sees it that way.
This is just my assumption, but I get the sense they feel OT is covered with Reiff added.
As such, they just need to worry about OG, which they can get a guy either later in Rd 1 or in Rd 2.
I have a feeling their top two guys are Sewell and Chase.
I'd like for Pitts to be in that convo too, but we don't know how the team is viewing Pitts. They probably won't take Pitts if they treat him as TE-only and want their TEs to be more blockers like they were the past two years.
So if Sewell is off the board, my money is on pass catcher, not OL.