Chase versus Pitts

[*Synric*]

(03-25-2021, 02:49 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Going Chase or Pitts really is splitting hairs TBH.
I prefer Pitts, but I'd be happy with Chase.
Either would be a hell of a selection and arguably better than anyone other than Sewell.

My preference of Pitts over Chase is his versatility and rarity. Pitts can line up an any receiver or TE position which is huge for an offense. Rarity is you just dont see Prospects like Kyle Pitts it's not just his straight line speed but his but his short area quickness his catch radius body control etc. 

[Essex Johnson]

(03-25-2021, 10:18 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Correct, Reiff and Spain are only on one-year deals. However, for 2021, they are here.
The team may decide they will be covered for this year and just get a new OG and/or OT next year.
In total, here is the roster:
OT = Williams, Reiff, Adeniji, Johnson
OG = Spain, XSF, Jordan, Sutherland
C = Hopkins, Price

I don't recall a time more than maybe once in the past decade where they've kept more than 10 OL on the roster.
Williams, Reiff, Spain, XSF, and Hopkins are locks to make the roster.
Price probably isn't getting replaced due to Hopkins injury.
Sutherland is the most likely candidate to get replaced by a draft pick, but I'm not sure how many more of the other guys would get knocked off in favor of a draft pick. Maybe 1-2 of them.

My guess - The Bengals take one OL on Day 1/2 and one on Day 3.

I totally see Johnson as replacement , with Sutherland also.. possible Price

[Au165]

Just as an FYI, I think if both are on the board the team takes Chase. I am simply pointing out why Pitts is such a crazy good prospect.

[impactplaya]

Ive seen more WRs like Chase who really light it up
Their last year in college then when they get to the pros
They flop. Chase's last year he really put on a show.
But he wasnt the only WR who prospered in that offense.

Didnt they have Terrence Marshall and Justin Jefferson
Too?
I can recall a couple of WRs who dominated in their
Last years in school.then totally became waiver pickups or after thoughts, WRs are a hard position to project..but the following failed to meet expectations In the pros....Corey Coleman, Josh Doctson, Doriel Beckham Green,John Ross,
I think the skillset that Pitts possesses is more rare in TEs
WRs like Chase you can find in most every draft

[*ochocincos*]

Per NFL Live (about 25 seconds into https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7rhWbmYDnw), Pitts ran 48% of his routes from inline TE, 30% out of the slot, and 22% out wide in 2020.

So anyone who says he "only plays outside" or "can't play outside" (yes, two conflicting concepts), they don't know what they're talking about. He can play all over.

[samhain]

(03-24-2021, 11:19 PM)impactplaya Wrote: I was thinking today and its a whack theroy.
What if the Bengals draft Jamar Chase?
Now you have a situation where now you have
A QB and WR that has history and success together
People will say "look.at their chemistry"

Well.there is a flipside to that. 
All WRs want to be the "man". Every WR thinks he's a #1
Well because up until they arrived in the NFL, they were #1 or #2s in college.
There is a chance JB could feel pressured to get Chase
The football because of their past success
You think.Chase would be content being the #3 behind
Boyd and Higgins? 
In time Chase wants to be the man. 

I saw this in.Cleveland where the Browns offense
Was better without OBJ cause Mayfield wasnt pressured 
To get him the ball. 
He was able to spread the ball out minus OBJ.

From what I've seen of Burrow, I don't feel like we have to get overly worried about him locking in on a particular receiver.  He tried to make it work with AJ, it wasn't there, and Joe went to other options.  I think he'd throw it to Tony Brown if he was on the field and the only guy open.  A lot of his game is based on anticipation and having a feel for developing routes.  Guys like that will get the ball to any receiver until they prove they can't be relied on.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-25-2021, 07:55 PM)samhain Wrote: From what I've seen of Burrow, I don't feel like we have to get overly worried about him locking in on a particular receiver.  He tried to make it work with AJ, it wasn't there, and Joe went to other options.  I think he'd throw it to Tony Brown if he was on the field and the only guy open.  A lot of his game is based on anticipation and having a feel for developing routes.  Guys like that will get the ball to any receiver until they prove they can't be relied on.

That's not really what he was saying.
He was saying what if Chase (or Boyd or Higgins) gets frustrated with not getting enough targets to produce enough yardage and be considered a WR1 in the league.

[SunsetBengal]

If Sewell is gone, then the Bengals should trade down. However, if forced into an "either or" situation, I go with Chase. The people that are crazy over the Bengals drafting Pitts don't realize one thing. The Zac Taylor offense doesn't feature TE as a primary option..

So, you think this guy is going to re-engineer his offense, because you force one player on him??

[Waite Hoyt]

(03-25-2021, 09:06 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: If Sewell is gone, then the Bengals should trade down. However, if forced into an "either or" situation, I go with Chase. The people that are crazy over the Bengals drafting Pitts don't realize one thing. The Zac Taylor offense doesn't feature TE as a primary option..

So, you think this guy is going to re-engineer his offense, because you force one player on him??

Taylor offense can certainly feature a TE. Especially one who has size, range and speed of Pitts. He would create mismatches that Birrows accuracy and quick decision making could capitalize on.

[*Synric*]

(03-25-2021, 09:06 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: If Sewell is gone, then the Bengals should trade down.  However, if forced into an "either or" situation, I go with Chase.  The people that are crazy over the Bengals drafting Pitts don't realize one thing.  The Zac Taylor offense doesn't feature TE as a primary option..

So, you think this guy is going to re-engineer his offense, because you force one player on him??

Brian Callahan came from the Raiders who feature Darren Waller.

When Sean McVay was in Washington under Jay Gruden he was the TE coach and as the OC featured Jordan Reed. That is the Offense Zac Taylor has modeled his offense around.

They can absolutely feature a TE of Kyle Pitts caliber in their west coast and wide zone offense.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(03-25-2021, 09:24 PM)Synric Wrote: Brian Callahan the Offensive Coordinator came from the Raiders who feature Darren Waller.

When Sean McVay was in Washington under Jay Gruden he was the TE coach and as the OC featured Jordan Reed. That is the Offense Zac Taylor has modeled his offense around.

They can absolutely feature a TE of Kyle Pitts caliber in their west coast and wide zone offense.

Good points.

[QueenCity]

I'm starting to learn towards Pitts.... but I wonder if it's because I love passing to TE's in Madden. Our currents ones suck to play with lol

[*Synric*]

Joe Burrow is pushing hard for Ja'Marr Chase. I would take Pitts but what the QB wants...

Quote:5) Cincinnati Bengals: Ja'Marr Chase, WR LSU

I could easily see Penei Sewell or Rashawn Slater going here, but word on the street is that Joe Burrow is stumping for Cincy to bring his old Tiger teammate to Ohio. And the Riley Reiff signing gives the Bengals the flexibility to add a playmaker who’s an ideal stylistic fit for their quarterback.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/03/25/gameplan-nfl-mock-draft-trevor-lawrence-top-four-quarterbacks

[Whatever]

(03-25-2021, 04:40 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Ive seen more WRs like Chase who really light it up
Their last year in college then when they get to the pros
They flop. Chase's last year he really put on a show.
But he wasnt the only WR who prospered in that offense.

Didnt they have Terrence Marshall and Justin Jefferson
Too?
I can recall a couple of WRs who dominated in their
Last years in school.then totally became waiver pickups or after thoughts, WRs are a hard position to project..but the following failed to meet expectations In the pros....Corey Coleman, Josh Doctson, Doriel Beckham Green,John Ross,
I think the skillset that Pitts possesses is more rare in TEs
WRs like Chase you can find in most every draft

The thing with Chase is he had his monster season when he was a true sophomore.  Pro projections favor guys who were better early in their careers.  For him to set records that young in the SEC is huge, because the kid is nowhere near topped out yet.  He's not polished as a route runner, yet, and is winning with his hands and his burst.  

You mentioned Jefferson, who had his breakout year as a junior.  Chase was better than Jefferson when he was only a sophomore and Jefferson broke the rookie receiving record and was the first rookie All Pro WR in over 30 years.  

I think it's easy to look at Chase's height/weight/speed and say guys like him come along every year, but he's a special prospect.  He doesn't have the physical freak aspect Pitts does, but he's going to be a top tier NFL WR.

[Essex Johnson]

(03-25-2021, 07:55 PM)samhain Wrote: From what I've seen of Burrow, I don't feel like we have to get overly worried about him locking in on a particular receiver.  He tried to make it work with AJ, it wasn't there, and Joe went to other options.  I think he'd throw it to Tony Brown if he was on the field and the only guy open.  A lot of his game is based on anticipation and having a feel for developing routes.  Guys like that will get the ball to any receiver until they prove they can't be relied on.

Actually I thought Burrow did fine in pocket but struggled out of pocket and overall throwing deep

[Nicomo Cosca]

(03-25-2021, 10:20 PM)Synric Wrote: Joe Burrow is pushing hard for Ja'Marr Chase. I would take Pitts but what the QB wants...


https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/03/25/gameplan-nfl-mock-draft-trevor-lawrence-top-four-quarterbacks

I gotta get myself back on the Chase hype-train...

If Sewell isn’t there and Chase is I’d think he’ll 100% be the pick.

[BengalsFanRealist2855]

As a player I like Pitts better,I just don't see the bengals doing it when Tyler boyd is best in the slot and you got one year of Higgins being #2 receiver, AJ green took the best corners still. If we had signed a guy in free agency to play x then I could see them going after Pitts but we are not. Also we lost 3 receivers,they aren't going to draft pitts and draft two other receivers in the draft and put them all out there. I don't see it happening. Even though there is some good speed guys in the later rounds I would like to draft.

I see them drafting chase and maybe drafting a later round tight end in the 4th or 5th,rather then try to fit Kyle Pitts in and have him play receiver a lot.

[CoachGeorge]

(03-25-2021, 09:06 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The people that are crazy over the Bengals drafting Pitts don't realize one thing. The Zac Taylor offense doesn't feature TE as a primary option.

Isn’t this a chicken and egg kind of thing? Why would anybody install a receiving TE-centric offense around the bush league TE’s the Bengals have had the last two years. I don’t expect Pitts to be a Bengal, but I am off the belief he is unlike any TE I have seen come out -ever. I agree with the anonymous NFL scout, if there is one guy who he would pick to get the HOF in this draft class, it’s Pitts.

(03-25-2021, 09:06 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: So, you think this guy is going to re-engineer his offense, because you force one player on him??

That’s exactly what a couple of guys did in 1981. They saw a player so extreme that they would be fools NOT to do some re-engineering. The player was LT. The DC was Bill Parcels and the LB coach was Bill Belichick. LT changed the game.

And LT was the second player drafted. LT was about a near unanimous lock to be #1. Bum Phillips’ excuse later in life basically said he was “comfortable” with his LB’s.

[Au165]

(03-25-2021, 09:24 PM)Synric Wrote: Brian Callahan came from the Raiders who feature Darren Waller.

When Sean McVay was in Washington under Jay Gruden he was the TE coach and as the OC featured Jordan Reed. That is the Offense Zac Taylor has modeled his offense around.

They can absolutely feature a TE of Kyle Pitts caliber in their west coast and wide zone offense.

Uzomah had 11 targets before getting hurt...a game and a half into the season. The offense was featuring a TE just fine before our starting TE went down, not sure what the heck people are talking about.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-23-2021, 01:53 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Pitts' unofficial 40 time matches Darren Waller's 40 time at 4.46.
Waller's height and weight are also near-identical to Pitts. 6'5", 241 lb for Waller, 6'6", 240 lb for Pitts.
That speed is just about 0.1 sec slower than Calvin Johnson, who was about the same size.
Megatron obviously stayed full-time at WR whereas Waller is more like a WR-TE hybrid.

Ja'Marr Chase reportedly ran 4.40 back last Summer, according to Bleacher Report. But he's "just" 6'1", 208 lb.

Personally, I'd take the 6'6", 240 lb guy who runs in upper 4.4's over a shorter guy who runs 4.40.
But both are very appealing.

Quote:The likelihood that the Bengals do a near-equal distribution of 100-110 targets to three WRs is likely not going to happen.

If someone like Chase is drafted, Chase likely would become the primary target and get 120+ targets.
What I would more expect to happen is Boyd or Higgins losing targets and essentially becoming third option in the offense.

Megatron stayed full-time at WR because he ran a 4.35 at the Combine. Even then that much mass moving and stopping and moving again that quickly and taking that many hits breaks down a body faster. 

- - - - -


Honestly, while it's nice to see 40 times, for me the more important times for a pass catcher are the 10-yd split, 20-yd shuttle, and the 3-cone. All about that initial burst and the change of direction agility. Rarely are guys allowed to get to run 40 yards in a straight line unimpeded in an actual game. 


It's why John Ross' 40 time was a red flag because he also ran a 4.35 20-yd shuttle compared to AJ Green who ran the 20-yd shuttle in 4.21, and Ross didn't even run the 3-cone at all. Despite running 0.24 faster in the 40 than Marvin Jones, his 10-yd split was 1.49, only 0.02 faster.


They aren't the end-all-be-all numbers for determining success, obviously, but I think they're pretty solid indications to look at and be very concerned if they're not good at all.