Mike Greenberg on 1530 today.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-21-2021, 01:08 PM)blt4584 Wrote: Bob McGinn put out an article on The Athletic today about Wrs, he asked scouts to rank them 1-5 with first place getting five points and 5th getting 1. Out of a possible 80 points, Chase got 80. The last guy to do that was Calvin Johnson. Waddle came in with 53 and Smith 52. It's not just the Bengals that think highly of Chase in spite of what the rest of the league thinks.

Yep. This narrative that it’s all about the Burrow connection is nonsense. The rest of the league is drooling over Chase as well. He’s a special, special talent.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-21-2021, 01:48 PM)tms Wrote: I follow the draft year-round. That's hype. Chase is WR1 in a class that is anything but top-heavy (no pun intended). He wasn't even WR1 on his own team. More importantly for me, he's distanced himself from his peers without having played a game. As recently as January, he had a modest Top 10 label. Now he's supposedly launched into a new stratosphere lol. It's nonsense. Skill players have been milked like this at draft time since time immemorial. 

He'll be a good player. A lot of these guys will be good players. But the Megatron comparisons need to stop, I don't care how they draw the link. No one in this class is in that category. It's pure sales. Megatron was unimpeachable. No one bothered to argue his skills for "separation" and "physicality at the LOS" because there was no need. His results spoke for themselves and it would have been merely pointing out the obvious.

You can keep repeating this as much as you want, doesn’t make it anymore true.

[tms]

(04-21-2021, 07:36 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: You can keep repeating this as much as you want, doesn’t make it anymore true.

It is true. Playing the F in LSU's offense is the #1 option, which is why Jefferson graduated there from the Z in 2019 and Marshall did the same this past year. Are you saying it's not- and just because it's in the "slot" it doesn't count as #1 anymore?

[*Synric*]

(04-21-2021, 07:45 PM)tms Wrote: It is true. Playing the F in LSU's offense is the #1 option, which is why Jefferson graduated there from the Z in 2019 and Marshall did the same this past year. Are you saying it's not- and just because it's in the "slot" it doesn't count as #1 anymore?

The F? No the Fullback is not the primary receiver in any offense...

[tms]

(04-21-2021, 07:49 PM)Synric Wrote: The F? No the Fullback is not the primary receiver in any offense...

Lol it would mean fullback to you, my man.

[SunsetBengal]

To all of those claiming that Ja'Marr Chase will somehow open up the offense. How exactly does adding a WR open up an offense? Wasn't that the same argument people made when the Bengals selected John Ross? WTF, people..

The way to truly "open up" an offense is to protect the franchise QB, and develop a strong rushing attack. Those are things that Penei Sewell can help with, Chase, not so much. To not be constantly in a "must pass" situation, able to run the ball with authority, and protect the QB when you do elect to pass is the ultimate opening up of an offense.

[BengalsRocker]

(04-21-2021, 12:53 PM)tms Wrote: I just wonder how people would feel about Chase if he were from another school, holding all other variables constant. Actually I don't wonder. It makes my skin crawl lol. We would not be here having this debate. Even if we were, we'd be considering the merits of Smith and Waddle too, just like any other team. But I've scarcely heard their names at all. It's telling. We don't want a WR- we want Chase. We're not prioritizing wideouts- we're prioritizing Chase. We say it's about "separation" or "downfield speed" or some other arbitrary factor- when we really mean that it's about Chase. We can't get out of our own way. It has to be Chase for Chase's sake, to heck with what the rest of the league would do. This is why we're the Bengals.

I know I'm preaching to the choir. Just felt the need to vent. And yes, about Chase lol.

The LSU connection with Burrow will of course be somewhat of a factor.

However the common talk about Smith is his thin size and Waddle the injury concerns.

That is why most of those guys are not being mentioned.

Chase has none of those issues.

[*Synric*]

(04-21-2021, 07:54 PM)tms Wrote: Lol it would mean fullback to you, my man.

In a 11 personnel formations the Receiver designations are Primary X which is the receiver on the side by himself on the line of scrimmage, Z the boundary receiver lined up on the side of the slot (either on or off the line depending of the slots alignments), and the Y which is your slot receiver.

F is rarely used as a WR designation mostly coming in 4 or 5 receiver sets and even then its usually a TE lined up in the slot. (Alot of teams use H instead of F in those 4 receiver situations.)

F is primarily the designation for a Fullback in a 21 personnel formation

[blt4584]

(04-21-2021, 07:57 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: To all of those claiming that Ja'Marr Chase will somehow open up the offense.  How exactly does adding a WR open up an offense?  Wasn't that the same argument people made when the Bengals selected John Ross?  WTF, people..

The way to truly "open up" an offense is to protect the franchise QB, and develop a strong rushing attack.  Those are things that Penei Sewell can help with, Chase, not so much.  To not be constantly in a "must pass" situation, able to run the ball with authority, and protect the QB when you do elect to pass is the ultimate opening up of an offense.

What would your line look like if the pick is Sewell? I know some people say start him at G, but with his potential, any plan that doesn't involve moving him to LT at some point seems like a waste to me. I would probably start him at LT and work out the kinks as soon as possible with Williams moving to RT.

I still think the way to build the line would be to trade down to acquire picks and pick up an true OG since that's where the real problems on the line are.

[tms]

(04-21-2021, 08:01 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: The LSU connection with Burrow will of course be somewhat of a factor.

However the common talk about Smith is his thin size and Waddle the injury concerns.

That is why most of those guys are not being mentioned.

Chase has none of those issues.

This just reinforces my point. All of these issues were there months ago. Nothing is true about their bodies now that wasn't true about them then. That's all I'm saying. Nobody has taken the field. And yet draft stocks are flying up and down and all-around.  

I love the draft and college football. But I can't pretend like this isn't happening at the expense of some players, and to the good fortune of others. It's tough to watch every year.

[GreenCornBengal]

(04-21-2021, 07:57 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: To all of those claiming that Ja'Marr Chase will somehow open up the offense. How exactly does adding a WR open up an offense? Wasn't that the same argument people made when the Bengals selected John Ross? WTF, people..

The way to truly "open up" an offense is to protect the franchise QB, and develop a strong rushing attack. Those are things that Penei Sewell can help with, Chase, not so much. To not be constantly in a "must pass" situation, able to run the ball with authority, and protect the QB when you do elect to pass is the ultimate opening up of an offense.

While I agree with you about opening the offense by strong protection and running game... comparing John Ross to Chase is absurd. not even a close comparison lol.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-21-2021, 08:04 PM)blt4584 Wrote: What would your line look like if the pick is Sewell? I know some people say start him at G, but with his potential, any plan that doesn't involve moving him to LT at some point seems like a waste to me. I would probably start him at LT and work out the kinks as soon as possible with Williams moving to RT.

I still think the way to build the line would be to trade down to acquire picks and pick up an true OG since that's where the real problems on the line are.

Actually, I am in favor of Sewell beginning his career at Guard.  Simply because it allows the team to put the best 5 on the field.  Also, after a year off of football, easing a young player in at a limited role is a good way to get him NFL experience, as well as be ready and in shape should an injury occur to one of the current Tackles.

Don't get me wrong, the interior of the OL certainly needs attention as well.  I'd also like to see a top Guard taken, in either the 2nd or 3rd round as well.  Would be a bonus if that player is also comfortable at Center.  We don't know what Hopkins will look like post injury, and Price seems like he's on his last chance to prove worth being retained.

I know to some it sounds like overkill, but to me it is what needs to be done.  I've always subscribed to the philosophy that the way to build a football team is from the inside out.  On offense that means OL and QB before skill players.  On Defense it's having strong DTs, LBs and Safetys.

[Murdock2420]

(04-21-2021, 03:54 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Are you saying unequivocally that Sewell is the only olineman 
In.this draft that can.come in and start day 1 and it can pay off 
Divends from.the get go.?
No other OG or OT can provide what Sewell can?

I'm saying Sewell is a bigger upgrade to the OL group then Chase is to the WR group.

I'm saying Sewell and Marshall, Brown or Toney is a bigger upgrade then Chase and Leatherwood, Eichenberg or Radunz.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-21-2021, 08:07 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: While I agree with you about opening the offense by strong protection and running game... comparing John Ross to Chase is absurd. not even a close comparison lol.

Sure seems that way now, doesn't it?  Take yourself back to the time of the 2017 draft.  All we saw were highlights of John Ross catching long balls for TDs, then the fastest man at the combine stuff.  History repeats itself.  Taking any WR with our first pick is as wrong now, as it was in 2017.

[blt4584]

(04-21-2021, 08:14 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Actually, I am in favor of Sewell beginning his career at Guard.  Simply because it allows the team to put the best 5 on the field.  Also, after a year off of football, easing a young player in at a limited role is a good way to get him NFL experience, as well as be ready and in shape should an injury occur to one of the current Tackles.

Don't get me wrong, the interior of the OL certainly needs attention as well.  I'd also like to see a top Guard taken, in either the 2nd or 3rd round as well.  Would be a bonus if that player is also comfortable at Center.  We don't know what Hopkins will look like post injury, and Price seems like he's on his last chance to prove worth being retained.

I know to some it sounds like overkill, but to me it is what needs to be done.  I've always subscribed to the philosophy that the way to build a football team is from the inside out.  On offense that means OL and QB before skill players.  On Defense it's having strong DTs, LBs and Safetys.

I do get starting him a guard and can't completely disagree, but with less practice time allowed, training him for OG while also trying to get him caught up with being in true pass sets at LT seems like a bit of a logistical nightmare and might spread him too thin. I am glad Pollack is here after seeing what he did with an even more raw guy last year in Becton.

No matter what they do, they have kinda backed themselves into a corner. They need real help at WR/OL/DL and a lot of it.

[*psychdoctor*]

(04-21-2021, 07:57 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: To all of those claiming that Ja'Marr Chase will somehow open up the offense.  How exactly does adding a WR open up an offense?  Wasn't that the same argument people made when the Bengals selected John Ross?  WTF, people..

The way to truly "open up" an offense is to protect the franchise QB, and develop a strong rushing attack.  Those are things that Penei Sewell can help with, Chase, not so much.  To not be constantly in a "must pass" situation, able to run the ball with authority, and protect the QB when you do elect to pass is the ultimate opening up of an offense.

In my mine, "opening up an offense" is somewhat vague in its assertion.  A WR can soften a defense in moving safeties back to allow running plays to be more effective.  But it will not prevent the front 7 from killing your QB.  WTS, Pitts could do more in that he may take a backer with him, and safety.  

I think a true deep threat, something the team has been missing in Green's later years, could "open up" slot and go routes on the other side of the field.  

If the Bengals pass on Sewell or even Slater in round 1, I feel they must address the OL in Round 2, even if a top shelf Edge player is there.  I get this uneasy feeling the Bengals really want Milton Williams.  I sense they want him badly enough to spend #38 pick in round two for him.  If this were to occur, I think many fans, especially fans on this forum, would tear their garments and run for the hills.  

[SunsetBengal]

(04-21-2021, 08:23 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: In my mine, "opening up an offense" is somewhat vague in its assertion.  A WR can softing a defense in moving safeties back to allow running plays to be more effective.  But it will not prevent the front 7 from killing your QB.  WTS, Pitts could do more in that he may take a backer with him, and safety.  

Doc, you sort of just answered yourself right there.  Adding that "one extra weapon" is what contending teams do in free agency, when they truly feel like they are "one player away".  Now, that one extra weapon may not always be a WR, sometimes it's a CB as demonstrated by the Pats a few years back.  However, I'm sure you can see the logic I'm leaning toward.
In order to benefit from the addition of one special, perimeter player?  A team must already be fundamentally sound, and the Bengals currently are not.  They have much work to do, before they reach that point of being "one player away"..

[SunsetBengal]

(04-21-2021, 08:22 PM)blt4584 Wrote: I do get starting him a guard and can't completely disagree, but with less practice time allowed, training him for OG while also trying to get him caught up with being in true pass sets at LT seems like a bit of a logistical nightmare and might spread him too thin. I am glad Pollack is here after seeing what he did with an even more raw guy last year in Becton.

No matter what they do, they have kinda backed themselves into a corner. They need real help at WR/OL/DL and a lot of it.

Hmm, did you not watch in amazement, when Clint Boling effortlessly slide out to LT for a few games, after having played his entire career at LG?

What is this "Guard training" that you speak of?  Sewell is a gifted, powerful athlete.  He can easily plug in the interior, and play to a much higher level than we've been used to, without even thinking about it much.

[blt4584]

(04-21-2021, 08:42 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Hmm, did you not watch in amazement, when Clint Boling effortlessly slide out to LT for a few games, after having played his entire career at LG?

What is this "Guard training" that you speak of?  Sewell is a gifted, powerful athlete.  He can easily plug in the interior, and play to a much higher level than we've been used to, without even thinking about it much.

I mean the guy in college that gave him the most trouble was when he had to occasional butt heads with Derrick Brown, an interior lineman. Being a OG would help since his problems now are him being very passive in pass pro and his feet getting messed up. I don't think he is a project, but he's still not very realized as a player yet.

As far as Boling goes, he played all the line at UGA in a more pro style system. 

[SunsetBengal]

(04-21-2021, 08:55 PM)blt4584 Wrote: I mean the guy in college that gave him the most trouble was when he had to occasional butt heads with Derrick Brown, an interior lineman. Being a OG would help since his problems now are him being very passive in pass pro and his feet getting messed up. I don't think he is a project, but he's still not very realized as a player yet.

As far as Boling goes, he played all the line at UGA in a more pro style system. 

If Turner was still here, I'd really be worried about the development of a player like Sewell.  However, since we all saw what Pollack did when he was handed top talent in Dallas, I'm not worried.