Serious Question about OL talent in round 2.

[Murdock2420]

I changed my sig and everything so as not to come off as being one sided or an ass or anything.

I actually wanted to hear from everyone that is saying there is plenty of OL talent that will be around at 38 on one simple question.

If there is so much talent at 38, why did a team that was OL needy in KC who has over spent this off-season to completely rebuild their line move out of 31 to trade for a LT? Why not stay at 31 and get one of the plug and play guys that is going to be there at 38?

I keep hearing that Leatherwood and Eichenberg and Jenkins and Mayfield and etc, etc, aren't that far of a drop from Sewell.

To me this looks like the Chiefs evaluated the options for OL at 31 and said "no thanks" and paid a heavy price to get a guy for their line instead of gambling on the draft.

Does this not concern anyone else about the evaluation of the OL talent in the 30's from a team that has a pretty good front office?

[Whatever]

(04-24-2021, 01:40 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I changed my sig and everything so as not to come off as being one sided or an ass or anything.

I actually wanted to hear from everyone that is saying there is plenty of OL talent that will be around at 38 on one simple question.

If there is so much talent at 38, why did a team that was OL needy in KC who has over spent this off-season to completely rebuild their line move out of 31 to trade for a LT? Why not stay at 31 and get one of the plug and play guys that is going to be there at 38?

I keep hearing that Leatherwood and Eichenberg and Jenkins and Mayfield and etc, etc, aren't that far of a drop from Sewell.

To me this looks like the Chiefs evaluated the options for OL at 31 and said "no thanks" and paid a heavy price to get a guy for their line instead of gambling on the draft.

Does this not concern anyone else about the evaluation of the OL talent in the 30's from a team that has a pretty good front office?

Different situations completely.  KC was in the SB last year and won it the year before.  Orlando Brown is still very young and is already a 2x Pro Bowler.  With any draft pick, there is an element of risk, no matter how confident you are in your evaluation.  Brown is a sure thing, or as close as you can get to it.  That close to a championship and with that few holes, it makes sense.  For a team like the Bengals that needs to increase it's talent base in a number of different position groups, it doesn't make sense.  To that point, KC lost a Pro Bowl LT in Eric Fisher that they are trying to replace with a player of equal ability.  It's simply not realistic to think any rookie T, even the top guys like Sewell and Slater, will step in and play at Fisher's level as a rookie.   It should also be noted that last year Deandre Hopkins and Stefon Diggs were traded before what was considered a stacked WR draft.  It certainly didn't mean there were no good WR's left after round 1.

KC also needed a starting LT.  The Bengals don't.  The Bengals need a starting RG and/or LG.  That's going to mean the Bengals will have a lot more viable options than the Chiefs will.  Also keep in mind that Baltimore is confident enough in this draft class to find Brown's replacement, similar to the Vikings finding Diggs' replacement in Jefferson last year.  

[CoachGeorge]

What has KC done really?. They’ve replaced 2 pro bowl players with 2 other pro bowl players. One is a 1 year rental and the other was a significant overpay. The lost a center and replaced him in what could only be described as a slight upgrade. And they got an aged injury prone guard who signed for a 1.1 mil base salary high on incentives which sounds like a move that Bengals fans would frown on if Tobin did that.

Brown is a terrific run-blocking LT who will be asked to drop into pass protection at a far higher rate and deeper sets than he ever has. Tunney, the 10th best guard via PFF will be asked to excel outside of New England on a new team with high expectations. That’s a lot of moving pieces for a position group that heavily relies on continuity and chemistry.

Will it work out? Maybe or maybe not. I am pretty sure they would have much preferred to not have to make all these moves in the middle of PM unbelievable run.

[SunsetBengal]

Avoiding the KC portion of the post, I'll stick with the original question.

The 2nd round looks to be loaded with interior linemen, plug and play Tackles, not so much. Sitting with the 5th pick, you'd love to see the Bengals take a cornerstone player, a man who will be the foundation of the team for 10-12 years. Weather you start him at LG, then shift him out to RT next year, or he wins the LT job outright, Penei Sewell is the type of physical OL that the Bengals need to become competitive again in the AFCN.

[lone bengal]

Bengals fans make no sense they say the Chiefs are in win now mode so Brown makes sense for them yet a rebuilding Bengals team signs a 33 year old Reiff to a one year deal , Spain to a 1 year deal , has XSF as another stop gap guard and they say we should pass on a tackle at number 5 because we’re ok this year. It’s about the future we have no long term solutions on the line outside of Williams who’s played 10 games in 2 years and we’re not winning anything this year. Good moves by KC they signed one of the best young guards in football in Thuney , got a good young LT to replace an older tackle coming off an Achilles , ,signed Jarren Reid and there quarterback is making 400 million dollars lol. Burrows on a rookie deal coming off an ACL , we have tons of cap space and we’re happy with Reiff , band - aid guards and hoping for lineman to fall to us in later rounds.

[Hammerstripes]

My personal opinion is that you always make sure that you have a line in front of a franchise QB. We don't have that and there is a guy at 5 that would seriously upgrade that.

I also feel that there is a major drop-off between Sewell and tier 3 guys. I put Slater and Sewell in tier 1, Darrisaw in Tier 2, and the rest of the fringe round 1/2 in tier 3.

[Whatever]

(04-24-2021, 09:31 AM)lone bengal Wrote: Bengals fans make no sense they say the Chiefs are in win now mode so Brown makes sense for them yet a rebuilding Bengals team signs a 33 year old Reiff to a one year deal , Spain to a 1 year deal , has  XSF as another stop gap guard and they say we should pass on a tackle at number 5 because we’re ok this year.  It’s about the future we have no long term solutions on the line outside of Williams who’s played 10 games in 2 years  and we’re not winning anything this year. Good moves by KC they signed one of the best young guards in football in Thuney , got a good young LT to replace an older tackle coming off an Achilles  , ,signed  Jarren Reid and there quarterback is making 400 million dollars lol. Burrows on a rookie deal coming off an ACL , we have tons of cap space and we’re happy with Reiff , band - aid guards and hoping for lineman to fall to us in later rounds.

It's fine to say we don't have a high quality option at RT next year and it should be addressed.  However, there's 7 rounds in the draft this year to take a guy to develop for a year before throwing him in the fire, there's also a loaded T FA class next year(Taylor Moton, Terron Armstead, Duane Brown, Charles Leno, Mike McGlinchy, Brandon Shell, Mike Remmers, Isaiah Wynn, Ryan Ramcyk, Orlando Brown) as well as next year's draft.  We have this draft to fill our need for a starting X WR and do not have the luxury of drafting a guy who may be a year away from being a starter.  Williams and Reiff are miles better as starters than Auden Tate or Mike Thomas.

You can't just write the season off before it starts, either.  What kind of HC do you think you're going to get when you fire Taylor after failing to provide him with the personnel to run his offense?

[Hammerstripes]

(04-24-2021, 01:31 PM)Whatever Wrote: It's fine to say we don't have a high quality option at RT next year and it should be addressed.  However, there's 7 rounds in the draft this year to take a guy to develop for a year before throwing him in the fire, there's also a loaded T FA class next year(Taylor Moton, Terron Armstead, Duane Brown, Charles Leno, Mike McGlinchy, Brandon Shell, Mike Remmers, Isaiah Wynn, Ryan Ramcyk, Orlando Brown) as well as next year's draft.  We have this draft to fill our need for a starting X WR and do not have the luxury of drafting a guy who may be a year away from being a starter.  Williams and Reiff are miles better as starters than Auden Tate or Mike Thomas.

You can't just write the season off before it starts, either.  What kind of HC do you think you're going to get when you fire Taylor after failing to provide him with the personnel to run his offense?

We can fill this draft with playmakers in rounds 2-7 as well.  The priority of keeping a great line in front of Burrow for some reason has taken a back seat - again.

Sure, we can bring in Tier 3 guys to play O-line, but we've seen how that works out.  At this point, I'd be happy with whoever we get.  But it just baffles me how during the season and even during last year's draft it was imperative to follow the blueprint to building around a franchise QB (protect him being priority #1) and the team ignored it.

My worry, is not that they take Chase at 5, but that they take a CB or Edge in round 2.  Then they take a DT in round 3.  And then we are right back where we started.

[BengalsRocker]

(04-24-2021, 01:40 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I changed my sig and everything so as not to come off as being one sided or an ass or anything.

I actually wanted to hear from everyone that is saying there is plenty of OL talent that will be around at 38 on one simple question.

If there is so much talent at 38, why did a team that was OL needy in KC who has over spent this off-season to completely rebuild their line move out of 31 to trade for a LT? Why not stay at 31 and get one of the plug and play guys that is going to be there at 38?

I keep hearing that Leatherwood and Eichenberg and Jenkins and Mayfield and etc, etc, aren't that far of a drop from Sewell.

To me this looks like the Chiefs evaluated the options for OL at 31 and said "no thanks" and paid a heavy price to get a guy for their line instead of gambling on the draft.

Does this not concern anyone else about the evaluation of the OL talent in the 30's from a team that has a pretty good front office?

Well to me this looks like they wanted the known NFL talent as opposed to the unknown draft pick.

Not so much that guys at 31 aren't any good.  Just unproven or perhaps not even the right fit.

[BengalsRocker]

(04-24-2021, 01:49 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: We can fill this draft with playmakers in rounds 2-7 as well.  The priority of keeping a great line in front of Burrow for some reason has taken a back seat - again.

Sure, we can bring in Tier 3 guys to play O-line, but we've seen how that works out.  At this point, I'd be happy with whoever we get.  But it just baffles me how during the season and even during last year's draft it was imperative to follow the blueprint to building around a franchise QB (protect him being priority #1) and the team ignored it.

My worry, is not that they take Chase at 5, but that they take a CB or Edge in round 2.  Then they take a DT in round 3.  And then we are right back where we started.

That would be my concern too.

This team might have to actually do some work and move around to get their guys.

Otherwise they'll be standing around with a bunch of BPAs that don't improve the team in areas of most need immediately.

[Burma]

(04-24-2021, 01:31 PM)Whatever Wrote: You can't just write the season off before it starts, either.  What kind of HC do you think you're going to get when you fire Taylor after failing to provide him with the personnel to run his offense?

What more does he need? He has 2 2nd round picks at WR who can ball, a 2nd round pick at TE who we were lead to believe was the real deal, a 2nd round pick at RB who would have been a 1st but couldn't resist punching a girl, and the #1 QB prospect in a long time.  That is more than a ton of teams have now. Do the Bengals need to get all 1st round picks so Taylor's offense can work as intended? If so then he is not a good coach and has shown he is incapable of adapting his scheme to best use the ample talent on the team. Look no further than the fact that Pitts, the best TE prospect in a long time, is not even really in consideration for the Bengals. If his infatuation with 11 personel is so rigid he can't figure out how to use Sample and Pitts effectively he is a shit coach in over his head.   I am willing to bet there are many coaches out there who would jump at the chance to run the Bengals and be more successful.

[Murdock2420]

(04-24-2021, 03:19 AM)Whatever Wrote: Different situations completely.  KC was in the SB last year and won it the year before.  Orlando Brown is still very young and is already a 2x Pro Bowler.  With any draft pick, there is an element of risk, no matter how confident you are in your evaluation.  Brown is a sure thing, or as close as you can get to it.  That close to a championship and with that few holes, it makes sense.  For a team like the Bengals that needs to increase it's talent base in a number of different position groups, it doesn't make sense.  To that point, KC lost a Pro Bowl LT in Eric Fisher that they are trying to replace with a player of equal ability.  It's simply not realistic to think any rookie T, even the top guys like Sewell and Slater, will step in and play at Fisher's level as a rookie.   It should also be noted that last year Deandre Hopkins and Stefon Diggs were traded before what was considered a stacked WR draft.  It certainly didn't mean there were no good WR's left after round 1.

KC also needed a starting LT.  The Bengals don't.  The Bengals need a starting RG and/or LG.  That's going to mean the Bengals will have a lot more viable options than the Chiefs will.  Also keep in mind that Baltimore is confident enough in this draft class to find Brown's replacement, similar to the Vikings finding Diggs' replacement in Jefferson last year.  

Appreciate the reply, and it makes sense. They certainly did get the known versus an unknown.

I have one other question though. If we need RG/LG help then why are the names being tossed around Radunz, Leatherwood and Eichenberg who are all Tackles? 

[masonbengals fan]

I'm not sure how many would jump at the chance but there's little doubt other coaches could have been more successful.

[Murdock2420]

(04-24-2021, 09:07 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Avoiding the KC portion of the post, I'll stick with the original question.

The 2nd round looks to be loaded with interior linemen, plug and play Tackles, not so much.  Sitting with the 5th pick, you'd love to see the Bengals take a cornerstone player, a man who will be the foundation of the team for 10-12 years.  Weather you start him at LG, then shift him out to RT next year, or he wins the LT job outright, Penei Sewell is the type of physical OL that the Bengals need to become competitive again in the AFCN.

I guess I don't see the interior lineman, as all the names people keep saying they want in round two are... Jenkins, Eichenberg, Leatherwood, Radunz all these guys are tackles none of them played guard.

The natural interior guys are Vera Tucker, Humphries, Dickerson (no to the injured guy) and Meinerz. I left off Wyatt Davis since he is a round 3 projection and also... injured.

[*bfine32*]

(04-24-2021, 03:19 AM)Whatever Wrote: Different situations completely.  KC was in the SB last year and won it the year before.  Orlando Brown is still very young and is already a 2x Pro Bowler.  With any draft pick, there is an element of risk, no matter how confident you are in your evaluation.  Brown is a sure thing, or as close as you can get to it.  That close to a championship and with that few holes, it makes sense.  For a team like the Bengals that needs to increase it's talent base in a number of different position groups, it doesn't make sense.  To that point, KC lost a Pro Bowl LT in Eric Fisher that they are trying to replace with a player of equal ability.  It's simply not realistic to think any rookie T, even the top guys like Sewell and Slater, will step in and play at Fisher's level as a rookie.   It should also be noted that last year Deandre Hopkins and Stefon Diggs were traded before what was considered a stacked WR draft.  It certainly didn't mean there were no good WR's left after round 1.

KC also needed a starting LT.  The Bengals don't.  The Bengals need a starting RG and/or LG.  That's going to mean the Bengals will have a lot more viable options than the Chiefs will.  Also keep in mind that Baltimore is confident enough in this draft class to find Brown's replacement, similar to the Vikings finding Diggs' replacement in Jefferson last year.  

Actually heard they were pretty keen of signing Villanueva to replace Brown.

As to the OP: even though I prefer Sewell at #5, there will be oline talent there at #38. Just as there will be WR talent.

Contrary to what you're reading around here: Sewell is not the only OT in this draft; nor is Chase the only WR

[bengaloo]

I feel like after Sewell, Slater and Darrisaw there is a pretty big drop at OT that fit the team, but thats just my opinion. Sure we have a better chance at getting good G's later in the draft like a Quinn or even Green, but despite signing Reiff, we do need the RT of the future. Not too mention, even though our patchwork OL looks better on paper than the ones we started with last year, we have little to no depth, and Williams has been an injury bug so far. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that Adeniji works out and ends up being good. He would at least give us 1 solid backup at OT. We have no depth at G though at all. Behind Spain and XSF it looks bleak. C is a question mark as well. Hopkins could likely have a drop in level of play after his injury if he's even ready. I just hope Price really steps up big time and becomes the C we drafted him to be. That would help a lot but regardless, the OL needs work.

Its not just about protecting Burrow in the pocket either, imo. We have to be able to run the ball again especially in the AFCN. This isnt the Big 12.

[BengalsRocker]

(04-24-2021, 02:46 PM)bengaloo Wrote: I feel like after Sewell, Slater and Darrisaw there is a pretty big drop at OT that fit the team, but thats just my opinion. Sure we have a better chance at getting good G's later in the draft like a Quinn or even Green, but despite signing Reiff, we do need the RT of the future. Not too mention, even though our patchwork OL looks better on paper than the ones we started with last year, we have little to no depth, and Williams has been an injury bug so far. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that Adeniji works out and ends up being good. He would at least give us 1 solid backup at OT. We have no depth at G though at all. Behind Spain and XSF it looks bleak. C is a question mark as well. Hopkins could likely have a drop in level of play after his injury if he's even ready. I just hope Price really steps up big time and becomes the C we drafted him to be. That would help a lot but regardless, the OL needs work.

Its not just about protecting Burrow in the pocket either, imo. We have to be able to run the ball again especially in the AFCN. This isnt the Big 12.

Let us pray.  I just can't believe how bad Price has been in the NFL.  Major disappointment to me.

[lone bengal]

(04-24-2021, 01:31 PM)Whatever Wrote: It's fine to say we don't have a high quality option at RT next year and it should be addressed.  However, there's 7 rounds in the draft this year to take a guy to develop for a year before throwing him in the fire, there's also a loaded T FA class next year(Taylor Moton, Terron Armstead, Duane Brown, Charles Leno, Mike McGlinchy, Brandon Shell, Mike Remmers, Isaiah Wynn, Ryan Ramcyk, Orlando Brown) as well as next year's draft.  We have this draft to fill our need for a starting X WR and do not have the luxury of drafting a guy who may be a year away from being a starter.  Williams and Reiff are miles better as starters than Auden Tate or Mike Thomas.

You can't just write the season off before it starts, either.  What kind of HC do you think you're going to get when you fire Taylor after failing to provide him with the personnel to run his offense?

I agree that we need WR as well as line help. I also agree there’s more line depth versus the type of reviver that we need. We can get greedy and try to kill 2 birds with one stone by trying to get the WR 1st and hit on lineman later. I fear the outcome of not hitting on lineman more than I do missing out on WR, which is getting Burrow hurt long term and short term. Percentage wise picks 5-7 don’t even make the roster /not impact players. We would be looking to hit on lineman in rounds 2-4 needing pass rush help too. We have no long term solution at RT, RG ,LG , in 2022, Hopkins is average coming off an ACL so we need to hit on multiple lineman in my opinion and if we don’t the Bengals deserve to get crucified. Far as free agency goes the Bengals haven’t shown there willing to overpay for a good lineman. Teams don’t usually let good young tackles go. The Chiefs aren’t giving up all those picks to let Brown walk, the Panthers and 49ers will try to keep Moton and McGlinchy to help project there young QBs. Browns is 35 years old , Remmers is 32 , Leno and Shell aren’t that good in my opinion. I think Ramcyk will hit the market Saints are in cap hell he’s an option I like just gotta bid for him.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-24-2021, 02:17 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I guess I don't see the interior lineman, as all the names people keep saying they want in round two are... Jenkins, Eichenberg, Leatherwood, Radunz all these guys are tackles none of them played guard.

The natural interior guys are Vera Tucker, Humphries, Dickerson (no to the injured guy) and Meinerz. I left off Wyatt Davis since he is a round 3 projection and also... injured.

Of that group, I'd be happy with Jenkins.  I feel like he is the underrated sleeper of the top Tackle prospects in this draft.  He is going to be a mean SOB at RT for many years.  However, everything that I've been hearing and reading lately has him going late in the 1st round.  Eichenburg and Leatherwood may be fine, if allowed to ease into their NFL roles.  Radunz looks to have a high ceiling, but I also feel he will need a year or so of developmental time.

Also agree with you about Wyatt Davis.  I'm a Buckeye fan, and I still can't figure out what all the draft hype on this kid is for.

[Murdock2420]

(04-24-2021, 05:04 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Of that group, I'd be happy with Jenkins.  I feel like he is the underrated sleeper of the top Tackle prospects in this draft.  He is going to be a mean SOB at RT for many years.  However, everything that I've been hearing and reading lately has him going late in the 1st round.  Eichenburg and Leatherwood may be fine, if allowed to ease into their NFL roles.  Radunz looks to have a high ceiling, but I also feel he will need a year or so of developmental time.

Also agree with you about Wyatt Davis.  I'm a Buckeye fan, and I still can't figure out what all the draft hype on this kid is for.

I think you are right on Radunz needing time to develop but again people are saying we can wait till round 2 to get OL help and we don't need a tackle.. every one of those guys Leatherwood, Radunz, Eichenberg, and Jenkins are tackles. 

I'm just not sure why we are okay taking a round two tackle and flipping him to guard when it is taboo to do it in round one? 

I get the love for Meinerz and I share that love, he will be a good fit for us as he is a natural interior lineman, same with Trey Smith from Tennessee, or Green from Illinois (well sort of natural as he was a DL that was converted) but at least these are inside guys. 

If we need a tackle (Leatherwood, Radunz, etc) then take the best one, if you need guards and that is why we pass on Sewell, then don't take a tackle in round two. Humphrey, Meinerz, Cleveland,  Smith, those all make sense but pick 38 might be too soon for them?