For those that hated the trade down.

[Bengalbug]

What if... The Bengals flip one of their 4th round picks for Zach Ertz today and then sign (fa) one or two of trae turner/Eric fisher/Russ pking/etc to a 1-2 year deal for depth/camp competition? This would be in addition to 5 other picks today as well.

Would those of you be able to look back at this weekend as a win?

[Essex Johnson]

(05-01-2021, 08:07 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: What if... The  Bengals  flip one of their 4th round picks for Zach Ertz today and then sign (fa) one or two of trae turner/Eric fisher/Russ pking/etc to a 1-2 year deal for depth/camp competition?  This would be in addition to 5 other picks today as well.

Would those of you be able to look back at this weekend as a win?

The What If lies the problem, those on the board are missing the issue is more contol of the draft board than anything. For example 1st round we had contol to take the consensus top lineman, we passed.. 2nd round we traded back after just 1 oline had went since mid 1st round we passed, 3rd round we can add more depth to Oline we pass.
And if Carman was our guy all along in 2nd round why risk trading back?  Finally FA  they dont sign a FA oline to what day 3 and for a 1 year contract..so that tells me they still dont believe Oline was priority #1. I will admit that I probably overreacted on the Carman the player some still most of my frustration was due to the issues with approach but it came right back in 3rd when we passed again on taking Oline and now are in the dreaded 4/5 area of increased bust risk..

[NATI BENGALS]

I wasn’t watching it live but if I was I would have been upset trading back and missing on Barmore Jenkins and Eichenberg. Like super upset.

I just happened to see the pick and didn’t know anything about how the round started. Loved it. Then had someone tell me we traded down with the Pats and got two 4th round picks before taking Jack the Jiant. I almost pooped.

We needed a massive infusion of talent. And we had a damn good free agency. Then we addressed our 3 biggest weaknesses with our first 3 picks being big time players at those positions. And now we have 7 picks to keep stock piling talent. We are crushing it.

[Essex Johnson]

(05-01-2021, 08:29 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I wasn’t watching it live but if I was I would have been upset trading back and missing on Barmore Jenkins and Eichenberg. Like super upset.

I just happened to see the pick and didn’t know anything about how the round started. Loved it. Then had someone tell me we traded down with the Pats and got two 4th round picks before taking Jack the Jiant. I almost pooped.

We needed a massive infusion of talent. And we had a damn good free agency. Then we addressed our 3 biggest weaknesses with our first 3 picks being big time players at those positions.  And now we have 7 picks to keep stock piling talent. We are crushing it.

Yes crushing it since Burrow got hurt we added a 30 plus tackle in FA for 1 year, passed on consensus best Tackle in draft, then traded back to pick a another tackle that just had back surgery that we hope to move to guard where he never played and then continued to pass on Oline in 3rd now we drift to our dreaded 4th round bust range for Oline. I dont think we are crushing it.

[Destro]

Bengals are bad in a lot of ways. Very good players are needed, but also need some depth. Players will get hurt. That is a guarantee. So having more/high rated players to evaluate would also be beneficial. Keep and use the picks or give numbers up for "better" players...could be a good argument to do either. But, this is the Bengals, so....

[NUGDUKWE]

There's still some good oline talent on the board. The Bengals needed some extra picks in this draft and I think if the board shaped up the right way they had to risk a trade down for more picks. I would've preferred an extra pick in the 3rd. But there's still talent in the 4th and with 3 picks this is whats really gonna make this draft.

[*SHRacerX*]

I had no problem with the trade back. Predicted it, and like the selection of Carmen as a RG for this team. I did not like the pick of Ossai. Not with Spencer Brown on the board as a developmental RT. I will wonder if they believe Carman can be the RT of the future, because that is not how I saw him.

Everything was great until that 3rd pick. I am sure the guy is a freak, but I simply didn't have him anywhere near Brown.

[Essex Johnson]

(05-01-2021, 09:03 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: There's still some good oline talent on the board. The Bengals needed some extra picks in this draft and I think if the board shaped up the right way they had to risk a trade down for more picks. I would've preferred an extra pick in the 3rd. But there's still talent in the 4th and with 3 picks this is whats really gonna make this draft.

First , the idea that there is not talent does not seem relative since we are talking about the elite players of College that will be drafted , so yes there is always talent the difference is risk vs. reward... Funny that now we talk about talent in 4th for Oline but how long did we read so many on board preach we can;t wait till 4th round for two reasons:  need starters now, most are development players in 4/5 range and then you do have the increased risk of a bust since by value standards there is more risk in later rounds...

[ezekiel23]

(05-01-2021, 08:07 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: What if... The Bengals flip one of their 4th round picks for Zach Ertz today and then sign (fa) one or two of trae turner/Eric fisher/Russ pking/etc to a 1-2 year deal for depth/camp competition? This would be in addition to 5 other picks today as well.

Would those of you be able to look back at this weekend as a win?

Jenkins would have been an immediate impact player,among others.I don’t see Carman as a plug and play guy.Plus,the back surgery issue really concerns me.Should have stayed at 38.Chase,Jenkins,Ossai.I would have given this an A+.

[PDub80]

(05-01-2021, 09:05 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I had no problem with the trade back.  Predicted it, and like the selection of Carmen as a RG for this team.  I did not like the pick of Ossai.  Not with Spencer Brown on the board as a developmental RT.  I will wonder if they believe Carman can be the RT of the future, because that is not how I saw him.  

Everything was great until that 3rd pick.  I am sure the guy is a freak, but I simply didn't have him anywhere near Brown.

Forsythe & Hudson are both viable RTs still left. Do not dispair!

Ossai is a MONSTER player. I see big time things for him. BIG TIME

[ezekiel23]

(05-01-2021, 08:46 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Yes crushing it since Burrow got hurt we added a 30 plus tackle in FA for 1 year, passed on consensus best Tackle in draft, then traded back to pick a another tackle that just had back surgery that we hope to move to guard where he never played and then continued to pass on Oline in 3rd now we drift to our dreaded 4th round bust range for Oline. I dont think we are crushing it.

Essex Johnson,I couldn’t have said it better.Agree 100%.They had their chance,and they passed on it.I feel like that pick 38 was the most crucial part of the draft process for the Bengals,after taking Chase,and they needed to get it right with the absolute best lineman available to them.I didn’t really care what they done after that,as long as they hit a home run with those 2 picks.

[Essex Johnson]

(05-01-2021, 09:41 AM)ezekiel23 Wrote: Essex Johnson,I couldn’t have said it better.Agree 100%.They had their chance,and they passed on it.I feel like that pick 38 was the most crucial part of the draft process for the Bengals,after taking Chase,and they needed to get it right with the absolute best lineman available to them.I didn’t really care what they done after that,as long as they hit a home run with those 2 picks.

I agree and what gets me is it feels the Chase supporters totally want to silence those like us but many of those have great pushed for a total reload on the line and have blasted picks like Sample right when they came out or blasted Bengals for picking someone with injury history and now they just put blinders on... and
say don;t complain or you are a non Bengal supporter..

I admitted in a previous post I overreacted to Carmen some though from again many of Chase supporters  stated: you should not reach even by a few picks high in draft so can't think about Slater etc.. but i guess that stops in 2nd round ??  Carmen was projected late 2nd round by most so this is a reach by their standards.  

Lets have a fair debate on this draft: which means debate our points not try to silence those that disagree since it hurts a certain narrative especially since many have done the same thing we are doing before.

Finally i would have graded this better if we would have taken a damn lineman in 3rd round...

[OSUfan]

There does not have to be a what if.

Frank Pollack obviously likes this selection and that should be all anyone needs to know. Pollack is one of the best line coaches in this game. We added a kid he really is high on and added selections in the 4th round in doing so.

The reality is that Jonah Williams and Riley Reiff are the starting OTs in 2021. They are drafting for future OT and OGs for 2021. Jackson provides a NFL ready opening day starter at either OG position and while he most likely will not play LT at the NFL level, other than emergency, he provides the flexibility and level of play to be a high caliber long time option at RT.

He is a mountain that is extremely athletic for his stature. Frank Pollack could turn this kid into a stud at RT or OG. Very good selection that immediately upgrades the offensive line.

[NUGDUKWE]

(05-01-2021, 09:19 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: First , the idea that there is not talent does not seem relative since we are talking about the elite players of College that will be drafted , so yes there is always talent the difference is risk vs. reward... Funny that now we talk about talent in 4th for Oline but how long did we read so many on board preach we can;t wait till 4th round for two reasons:  need starters now, most are development players in 4/5 range and then you do have the increased risk of a bust since by value standards there is more risk in later rounds...

I think the can't wait until the 4th was part of the Sewell debate. If we went WR 1st withou trading back and picking up an extra 3rd then we definitely risked pushing atleast the 2nd oline to the 4th rd. The draft went they way alot of the mocks did in the 3rd where the OL went in the later part of the rd so the Bengals went BPA which we all thought might happen. What I meant by talent is a guy who can compete to start this year but at the least be a solid backup this year and develop into a starter hopefully next year. I think there's still those guys available and hopefully the Bengals do that with pick 111 for the OL. I liked the trade back because the Bengals had need for guys like that at multiple positions.

[Bengalholic]

(05-01-2021, 09:50 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I agree and what gets me is it feels the Chase supporters totally want to silence those like us but many of those have great pushed for a total reload on the line and have blasted picks like Sample right when they came out or blasted Bengals for picking someone with injury history and now they just put blinders on... and
say don;t complain or you are a non Bengal supporter..

I admitted in a previous post I overreacted to Carmen some though from again many of Chase supporters  stated: you should not reach even by a few picks high in draft so can't think about Slater etc.. but i guess that stops in 2nd round ??  Carmen was protected late 2nd round by most so this is a reach by their standards.  

Lets have a fair debate on this draft: which means debate our points not try to silence those that disagree since it hurts a certain narrative especially since many have done the same thing we are doing before.

Finally i would have graded this better if we would have taken a damn lineman in 3rd round...

Which is probably why they were comfortable moving back a few spots, getting 2 extra picks and still landing their guy. 

[hollodero]

(05-01-2021, 10:02 AM)Bengalholic Wrote: Which is probably why they were comfortable moving back a few spots, getting 2 extra picks and still landing their guy. 

Probably. I am just sceptical about calling a very large, raw, and injured OLiner that people who know more than me don't value that high was our O-Line plan from the start. We pass on Sewell, we got our eyes on Carman instead. It just doesn't ring like giving the line the priority it imho would have deserved. Also, I do not trust the Bengals' hidden gem OLiners any more.

Imho, we pass on Chase and have Terrace Marshall instead, who was on the board still even after the trade down, would have sounded better. But sure, nothing else to do than to hope for the best now, don't want to spread negativity.

[Bengalholic]

(05-01-2021, 10:16 AM)hollodero Wrote: Probably. I am just sceptical about calling a very large, raw, and injured OLiner that people who know more than me don't value that high was our O-Line plan from the start. We pass on Sewell, we got our eyes on Carman instead. It just doesn't ring like giving the line the priority it imho would have deserved. Also, I do not trust the Bengals' hidden gem OLiners any more.

Imho, we pass on Chase and have Terrace Marshall instead, who was on the board still even after the trade down, would have sounded better. But sure, nothing else to do than to hope for the best now, don't want to spread negativity.

Draft projections are a funny thing. Marshall was widely projected to go late 1st/early 2nd, but falls to 59. A guy like Aaron Banks was projected to be a 3rd to 4th round pick, but goes 2 picks after Carman to the 49ers in the 2nd.

[*psychdoctor*]

(05-01-2021, 10:16 AM)hollodero Wrote: Probably. I am just sceptical about calling a very large, raw, and injured OLiner that people who know more than me don't value that high was our O-Line plan from the start. We pass on Sewell, we got our eyes on Carman instead. It just doesn't ring like giving the line the priority it imho would have deserved. Also, I do not trust the Bengals' hidden gem OLiners any more.

Imho, we pass on Chase and have Terrace Marshall instead, who was on the board still even after the trade down, would have sounded better. But sure, nothing else to do than to hope for the best now, don't want to spread negativity.

The position coach at LSU believed that Marshall was the most talented of the bunch including Chase.  With that said Marshall dropped for a reason no one knows for sure but medicals were the speculation.  The same goes with Jenkins.  The Jenkins issue was more lingering medicals.

[hollodero]

(05-01-2021, 10:25 AM)Bengalholic Wrote: Draft projections are a funny thing. Marshall was widely projected to go late 1st/early 2nd, but falls to 59. A guy like Aaron Banks was projected to be a 3rd to 4th round pick, but goes 2 picks after Carman to the 49ers in the 2nd.

Yeah I'm well aware and it usually makes little sense to pretend one could know better than the teams because one read some mock drafts.

And if the Bengals history of picking OLiners weren't that particularly bad, I would be more willing to trust their judgment over those of analysts or board members.


- Regarding the trade down, I actually thought that was fine, especially since we seemed to get a higher price than other teams that made similar moves. Two fourth rounders is quite a lot, two more lottery tickets at least.

[OSUfan]

(05-01-2021, 10:25 AM)Bengalholic Wrote: Draft projections are a funny thing. Marshall was widely projected to go late 1st/early 2nd, but falls to 59. A guy like Aaron Banks was projected to be a 3rd to 4th round pick, but goes 2 picks after Carman to the 49ers in the 2nd.

Yeah look at Trey Smith who is one of the most physically imposing OGs in this draft, yes he had medical issues, but you would have thought someone would have take a shot on his immense talent by this point.