Punching Bags and their Replacements

[SunsetBengal]

(05-02-2021, 04:41 PM)Spider Wrote: Is two extra seconds asking too much??
Its a real question..
Whats the average time a QB has in the pocket when it clean??
Anyone Know?

You want your QB to get rid of the ball in about 3.5 seconds.  If your line gives him 4 seconds consistently, they're doing a really fine job.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(05-02-2021, 02:14 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Absolutely.  And it was discussed at length on the most recent (excellent) Bengals Booth Podcast where they went through all the players and spoke with the coaches of the earlier picks.  A very common thread as Lapham pointed out:  These guys (and he named Hendrickson and some other FAs as well) are all EFFORT guys.  High motor.  Relentless.  He said this team will have energy in every practice and every snap with all the relentless guys they have added.

Dunlap showed up big for Seattle for a couple games but then disappeared again.  I always liked the guy, but he really showed his ass in his final days here and I am glad we seemingly have fewer guys like this and more relentless team guys.  

We're just making up stuff now? I'm curious as to what you based this upon. He had at least 1 QB hit in 7 of his 8 games, multple in 5 of 8, and sacks in 4 of 8.

He had 2 tackles, 1 QB Hit, and 2 Pdef in the playoff game.

In 8 games with Seattle he had 5.0 sacks, 6 TFL, and 14 QB Hits. That is a Pro Bowl pace for a DE.

(05-02-2021, 06:38 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You want your QB to get rid of the ball in about 3.5 seconds.  If your line gives him 4 seconds consistently, they're doing a really fine job.

3.5 is an eternity in modern football. If you're taking that long, you're going to get sacked. A lot.

[SunsetBengal]

(05-02-2021, 06:55 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: We're just making up stuff now? I'm curious as to what you based this upon. He had at least 1 QB hit in 7 of his 8 games, multple in 5 of 8, and sacks in 4 of 8.

He had 2 tackles, 1 QB Hit, and 2 Pdef in the playoff game.

In 8 games with Seattle he had 5.0 sacks, 6 TFL, and 14 QB Hits. That is a Pro Bowl pace for a DE.


3.5 is an eternity in modern football. If you're taking that long, you're going to get sacked. A lot.

Good catch, as I hadn't looked at the actual stats in several years.

[Spider]

(05-02-2021, 06:38 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You want your QB to get rid of the ball in about 3.5 seconds.  If your line gives him 4 seconds consistently, they're doing a really fine job.

Thank for responding..
Andy Was one of the fastest in his time in Cincy to release the ball i think right?
Under 2 seconds on most passing plays i think..
I could definetly be wrong..

[SunsetBengal]

(05-02-2021, 07:01 PM)Spider Wrote: Thank for responding..
Andy Was one of the fastest in his time in Cincy to release the ball i think right?
Under 2 seconds on most passing plays i think..
I could definetly be wrong..

Well, that number I told you was wrong.  It was something I remembered hearing back around 2015.  And yes, at that time Andy had one of the quicker releases in the league.

[Spider]

(05-02-2021, 07:04 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Well, that number I told you was wrong.  It was something I remembered hearing back around 2015.  And yes, at that time Andy had one of the quicker releases in the league.

Well Burrow may not have a choice but to take a quicker release into consideration..
if the Oline doesnt come together as planned he will have too.. or continue to take massive hits..
He cant take the amount of hits and pressures he took last season..
Lets hope Pollack can figure out how to get the most out of the talent he has,,
Geez i hope he can..
Or we will be drafting a QB come 2023..

[*jason*]

(05-02-2021, 06:21 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: He will want to build on that. Let's hope the latter. 

Definitely an upgrade over Bledsoe... Amirite?

[Spider]

(05-02-2021, 07:04 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Well, that number I told you was wrong.  It was something I remembered hearing back around 2015.  And yes, at that time Andy had one of the quicker releases in the league.

I Hope Joe Can develop the type of timing Andy Had with A.J. and Tyler Boyd amongst the other receivers he threw too while he was In Cinci..
Andy was really Good and maybe still is at timing routes and trusting his Wideouts to be in the spot where he Needed..
Joey B will develop that trust in his group Im sure..
Get the ball out Quicker..
May save years on his career..
Im Ranting.. But Now im Done

[Joelist]

Andy had the fastest release in football a couple of his seasons here. Burrow last season WAS responsible for some of the sacks because (like any rookie QB) he was holding on to the ball a bit. Also he was still getting up to pro speed in processing information on the field. None of which is faulting Burrow - rookies will rookie.

This upcoming season we are combining more receiving targets, a line with improvements AND Burrow with experience under his belt that will result in him processing the field faster and as a result less time holding the ball. I expect that while we may see a couple of rough early outings as all the new parts gel, once they go Burrow will really take off.

[Nicomo Cosca]

It’s a double edged sword when it comes to Burrow taking so many hits. It’s just the way he plays. He is always going to keep looking down the field and trying to extend the play as long as he can. Which can make the OL look even worse than they really are. I hate seeing him take unnecessary hits, but I also don’t want that aspect of his game getting coached out of him. Ideally, he’ll figure out the proper balance on his own.

[fredtoast]

(05-02-2021, 08:28 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote:  He is always going to keep looking down the field and trying to extend the play as long as he can. Which can make the OL look even worse than they really are. 

QBs who play for teams that are trailing most of the time are also forced to hold onto the ball longer.  When you are ahead you can check down or even throw it away more often.  It is okay to play it safe and punt.

But when you are behind and trying to comeback you can't have empty possessions.  You have to try and make a play every possession to keep your team in the game.  This is why QBs who are behind take more sacks and also force more dangerous passes that get intercepted.

I was not really impressed with Burrows big yardage numbers last year because he was attempting more passes than any QB in the league.  By far the most impressive element of his game to me was his low interception percentage.

[Sled21]

(05-02-2021, 06:55 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: We're just making up stuff now? I'm curious as to what you based this upon. He had at least 1 QB hit in 7 of his 8 games, multple in 5 of 8, and sacks in 4 of 8.

He had 2 tackles, 1 QB Hit, and 2 Pdef in the playoff game.

In 8 games with Seattle he had 5.0 sacks, 6 TFL, and 14 QB Hits. That is a Pro Bowl pace for a DE.


3.5 is an eternity in modern football. If you're taking that long, you're going to get sacked. A lot.

He has to have a receiver to throw to who can get open in 2 seconds..... which is why he wanted Chase

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(05-02-2021, 04:41 PM)Spider Wrote: Is two extra seconds asking too much??
Its a real question..
Whats the average time a QB has in the pocket when it clean??
Anyone Know?

Ten seconds if you’re Roethlisberger. This of course involves lots of uncalled holding.

[*bengalfan74*]

(05-02-2021, 08:28 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It’s a double edged sword when it comes to Burrow taking so many hits. It’s just the way he plays. He is always going to keep looking down the field and trying to extend the play as long as he can. Which can make the OL look even worse than they really are.    I hate seeing him take unnecessary hits, but I also don’t want that aspect of his game getting coached out of him. Ideally, he’ll figure out the proper balance on his own.

Indeed

[Benton]

(05-02-2021, 06:55 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: We're just making up stuff now? I'm curious as to what you based this upon. He had at least 1 QB hit in 7 of his 8 games, multple in 5 of 8, and sacks in 4 of 8.

He had 2 tackles, 1 QB Hit, and 2 Pdef in the playoff game.

In 8 games with Seattle he had 5.0 sacks, 6 TFL, and 14 QB Hits. That is a Pro Bowl pace for a DE.


3.5 is an eternity in modern football. If you're taking that long, you're going to get sacked. A lot.

Just curious where that data came from. Everything I'd seen had Burrow as 2.25 - 2.5. Not to mention, I didn't think Roesthlisberger was the worst protected QB.

[Murdock2420]

(05-02-2021, 10:12 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Ten seconds if you’re Roethlisberger.  This of course involves lots of uncalled holding.

That only applies when playing the Bengals. 

Those bums hold every snap like they are daring the refs to call if every time.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(05-03-2021, 12:43 AM)Benton Wrote: Just curious where that data came from. Everything I'd seen had Burrow as 2.25 - 2.5. Not to mention, I didn't think Roesthlisberger was the worst protected QB.

It's not time to hit, so Roethlisberger wasn't the worst protected. It's time to throw. He just threw tons of very very short passes quickly. He only attempted 7.1 air yards per pass attempt, which was bottom-10 in the league. (Burrow was at 8.7 for reference.)

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#average-intended-yards

Is a place to get a lot of the stats but only for the last 5 years as I think that's how long it's been kept track of. I Pro Football Reference has some more/different stats, but theirs only covers the last 3 years I believe. There's some interesting stuff on both. If it's actually useful statistics or what it actually means can probably vary a bit, but it's more hard data to play around with and mull over, at least.

It's the NFL's official advanced stat page, so I would take that 2.65 as closer to reality than the 2.25-2.5 you're saying you saw. I don't think 2.25 exists. Ben's 2.3 is the only season lower than 2.38 that the NFL has in their stats which cover the last 5 years.

[Dr.Z]

(05-02-2021, 07:35 PM)jason Wrote: Definitely an upgrade over Bledsoe... Amirite?

Lol . I’ll add Leftwich.

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-02-2021, 02:25 PM)Joelist Wrote: Hendrickson to me is an upgrade over Lawson - doesn’t have the injury issues and he actually finishes the play on the pass rush (sacks as opposed to just pressures). Ossai will platoon with Hubbard and help us having a pass rush from both sides. Ogunjobi restores at least some of the interior pressure we lost when Geno’s health failed him.

Then you get the other three DL picks - we are restocking the DL cupboard so to speak.

And the same is true of the other line. Instead of what we wheeled out to start last season we have Jonah - Carman - Trey - Spain - Reiff. This assumes Carman wins a starting role and yes I know I might have the Guard spots mixed up a little. This is considerably better. And the depth behind them is also a lot stronger. Just the fact that in this scenario the next man up at G is NOT MJ is big.

Oh, and add another Punching Bag and Replacement:

Punching Bag: Turner (utterly justified)

Replacement: Pollack. WORLDS better.

Good points all, but I believe they will start Carman at RG and have XSF and Spain compete for the LG position.  

[Bengalitis]

Zac & Lou.  What a great sounding comedic duo name.

The Bengals will not be competitive until these two are gone.

You looking forward to another season of Zac calling out the offensive plays... play after play? yeah? Did you enjoy Marvin's last year calling out the defensive plays... play after play? yeah?

The reality is the HC needs to be assessing both sides of the team (in real time during the game) while his subordinates the OC and DC do what the HC has been planning for the entire week (gameplan). Zac is no coaching genius and his agonizing attempt to play call the offense is just hideous to watch with hideous results.  Zac should let the OC do the play calling and change or steer it to whatever direction he sees fit to improve the game during the game (this causes Zac to call plays of what he wants to do, not what he should do). Even with the best talent in the team, if the coaching is not there, the players will get frustrated and the winning collapses. Ask the browns when Kitchens has coaching there for a season with all the talent in their team.