Defensive Improvements

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-25-2021, 08:43 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: After a mini overhaul last offseason, the 2020 Bengals defense suffered an abysmal season, riddled with injuries and some player discontent.

Move forward to now, the Bengals completed another mini overhaul to the defensive roster, and for at least this Bengal fan, the spirits and expectations are high.  (I mean, the defense has nowhere to go but up from last year, right?)

With players like Reader and Waynes set to return from injury, the addition of Trey Hendrickson and Larry Ogunjobi should bolster what was a weak and feeble DL last year.  The drafting of players like Sample, Shelvin and Ossai should provide good depth to work into the rotation.  The addition of an assassin like Mike Hilton at Slot Corner, paired with Bates and Bell at Safety, I feel like TEs and RBs are finally going to struggle catching the ball in the middle of the field and in the flats.  The Boundary CBs will be a bit of a question, until they get settled in. I feel like if he's back to full health, Waynes will make people forget about Jackson.  Phillips is continuing to develop into a quality corner, Chidobe and Apple should provide quality depth, as they are adept in the zone coverage that Anarumo likes to run.

The D could definitely surprise if they are healthy. Sure, I don't like Lou and think he should of been fired after last season but 
this isn't up to me and maybe he just needed players that fit what he wants to run. I definitely like the players we added so I 
am just hoping he can improve in his scheme and playcalling. 

I believe the D-line should be way improved over last season and we will be able to play Zone much better. The additions of 
Hendrickson, Ogunjobi, Ossai, Cam, Shelvin should really improve the D-line while Awuzie, Hilton and even Apple should help
(as a depth piece of course). With Reader, Waynes and Phillips healthy and our Safeties in Bates, Bell and Ricardo Allen we 
could be pretty tough.

Could definitely be a top Secondary with the moves they made to the D-line and I like our young Linebackers.

Need to add one more experienced vet to the LB core though IMO.

[ezekiel23]

(05-25-2021, 02:01 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I expect a big jump from Logan Wilson this year. 

I wouldn’t be surprised if Logan Wilson ends up being the best Linebacker on the team this year.I think this new and improved DL is Going to be a plus for him.His style of play resembles Burfict somewhat.

[NATI BENGALS]

Hendrickson, Reader, Ogunjobi, Hubbard
Pratt, Wilson
Wayne’s, Bates, Bell, Hilton, Awuzie/Philips


We just might mess around and have a top D. It all starts up front. And up front we were a train wreck last year. I can’t blame Lou for all that. Our DL depth this year is serious. Our young LBs now have some experience and won’t be playing behind a patchwork DL with motivation /leadership issues. And our remade secondary is the icing on the cake and could end up being a top unit with our stud safety combo flanked by high quality veteran CBs

[SuperBowlBound!]

(05-25-2021, 08:43 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: After a mini overhaul last offseason, the 2020 Bengals defense suffered an abysmal season, riddled with injuries and some player discontent.

Move forward to now, the Bengals completed another mini overhaul to the defensive roster, and for at least this Bengal fan, the spirits and expectations are high.  (I mean, the defense has nowhere to go but up from last year, right?)

With players like Reader and Waynes set to return from injury, the addition of Trey Hendrickson and Larry Ogunjobi should bolster what was a weak and feeble DL last year.  The drafting of players like Sample, Shelvin and Ossai should provide good depth to work into the rotation.  The addition of an assassin like Mike Hilton at Slot Corner, paired with Bates and Bell at Safety, I feel like TEs and RBs are finally going to struggle catching the ball in the middle of the field and in the flats.  The Boundary CBs will be a bit of a question, until they get settled in. I feel like if he's back to full health, Waynes will make people forget about Jackson.  Phillips is continuing to develop into a quality corner, Chidobe and Apple should provide quality depth, as they are adept in the zone coverage that Anarumo likes to run.

I am with you on the defense improvements. I like what I see especially investing in the big bodies up front. I think they improved the Defense talent wise but more importantly they got guys that fit Anarumos defense. Now I just hope Anarumos defense with the right pieces is successful.

[Sled21]

I give Anarumo a 100% pass for last year. All the talking heads on Sirius pretty much have agreed no DC could have been successful with the amount of injuries this team suffered on D last year. Just too deep into the depth chart, and pulling guys in off the street mid season. That said, he has his defense now, premium players suited to what he apparently wants to run, so no excuses. Just like Taylor, this is a sink or swim season for him as far as I'm concerned.

[fredtoast]

(05-26-2021, 08:35 AM)Sled21 Wrote:  no DC could have been successful with the amount of injuries this team suffered on D last year. 

Actually another successful playoff level DC was able to get a lot of production from a guy Lou had decided was third string on the worst defense in the league.

And why was Darius Phillips mysteriously dropped behind bums like Simms and Davis on the depth chart for a while?  

Reminds me of when Taylor thought Finley gave us a better chance of winning than Dalton.

Just because a team has a lot of injuries that does not excuse stupid actions by the coaches.

[Shake n Blake]

(05-25-2021, 08:43 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: After a mini overhaul last offseason, the 2020 Bengals defense suffered an abysmal season, riddled with injuries and some player discontent.

Move forward to now, the Bengals completed another mini overhaul to the defensive roster, and for at least this Bengal fan, the spirits and expectations are high.  (I mean, the defense has nowhere to go but up from last year, right?)

With players like Reader and Waynes set to return from injury, the addition of Trey Hendrickson and Larry Ogunjobi should bolster what was a weak and feeble DL last year.  The drafting of players like Sample, Shelvin and Ossai should provide good depth to work into the rotation.  The addition of an assassin like Mike Hilton at Slot Corner, paired with Bates and Bell at Safety, I feel like TEs and RBs are finally going to struggle catching the ball in the middle of the field and in the flats.  The Boundary CBs will be a bit of a question, until they get settled in. I feel like if he's back to full health, Waynes will make people forget about Jackson.  Phillips is continuing to develop into a quality corner, Chidobe and Apple should provide quality depth, as they are adept in the zone coverage that Anarumo likes to run.

People essentially think Hendrickson is a scrub who was only relevant due to talent around him, so I expect him to be a pleasant "surprise" for some.

Hilton was an underrated signing. We really didn't have Reader or Waynes last year, and they were the 2 biggest FA signings.

Ogunjobi is also being slept on. Reminds me of when we signed Wallace Gilberry back in the day, and people thought he was roster fluff.

All these players will make an impact. I just have my doubts about Lou. I do know one thing, no excuses moving forward. They've bent over backwards to reshape this roster for both Zac and Lou.

[Shake n Blake]

(05-25-2021, 11:10 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Hendrickson, Reader, Ogunjobi, Hubbard
                 Pratt, Wilson
Wayne’s, Bates, Bell, Hilton, Awuzie/Philips


We just might mess around and have a top D. It all starts up front. And up front we were a train wreck last year. I can’t blame Lou for all that. Our DL depth this year is serious. Our young LBs now have some experience and won’t be playing behind a patchwork DL with motivation /leadership issues. And our remade secondary is the icing on the cake and could end up being a top unit with our stud safety combo flanked by high quality veteran CBs

Here's the deal...we weren't just bad...we were letting the Ravens set records with 404 yards rushing.

I don't care what your roster looks like, you have to place some blame on coaching for disasters like that.

A good coach can at least make a bad roster look a little better. Did Lou make us better? Eh...

[bengaloo]

(05-25-2021, 11:07 AM)J24 Wrote: Lawson was top 10 in pressures last season and that was without playing next to Atkins or Dunlap.  Also Lawson has played in more games than Hendrickson as during their time in the NFL.

As far as Jackson being a one trick Pony; who cares? The #1 ability a CB has to have is to cover man to man. Maybe we should be blaming the Coordinator for not running enough man coverage instead of Jackson.

I think Lawson was more of a one trick pony honestly. He got plenty of pressures but never even got back to his rookie year numbers in sacks. Also, he wasnt a good edge setter in the run game. Hendrickson is better in that area and is a more well rounded DE overall. I honestly believe Hendrickson is a better overall player, and he is on the rise. It wont surprise me if he shocks some of the critics this year. Also coming from a great winning team helps change the culture in the locker room. Lawson as good as he 'could' be was still a Marvin holdover. I think we did the right thing replacing him with Hendrickson. 


Overall I think we will see a much improved D this year. Not just because of all the additions of players, but also because of what is happening right now. We have the entire team at OTA's. When was the last time that happened? We had no offseason last year basically. I expect to see big improvements on both sides of the ball, but especially on D. 

[SunsetBengal]

(05-26-2021, 09:19 AM)fredtoast Wrote: And why was Darius Phillips mysteriously dropped behind bums like Simms and Davis on the depth chart for a while?  

Likely because he sustained a lower leg injury in training camp that nagged him most of the year, as well as suffered a groin injury in November that kept him out a few games.

[KillerGoose]

(05-26-2021, 01:05 PM)bengaloo Wrote: I think Lawson was more of a one trick pony honestly. He got plenty of pressures but never even got back to his rookie year numbers in sacks. Also, he wasnt a good edge setter in the run game. Hendrickson is better in that area and is a more well rounded DE overall. I honestly believe Hendrickson is a better overall player, and he is on the rise. It wont surprise me if he shocks some of the critics this year. Also coming from a great winning team helps change the culture in the locker room. Lawson as good as he 'could' be was still a Marvin holdover. I think we did the right thing replacing him with Hendrickson. 


Overall I think we will see a much improved D this year. Not just because of all the additions of players, but also because of what is happening right now. We have the entire team at OTA's. When was the last time that happened? We had no offseason last year basically. I expect to see big improvements on both sides of the ball, but especially on D. 

The lower sack total was due to how awful the rest of the defense was at rushing the passer. Lawson, by himself, generated 44 pressures. The rest of the entire front seven, including backups, generated 50. So, Lawson generated six less pressures than the 12 other guys who say playing time within that front seven group. If you take out the LBers, Lawson generated more pressure by himself than the rest of the defensive line combined. He’s an elite pass rusher, though Hendrickson is also very good.

[bengaloo]

(05-26-2021, 01:34 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: The lower sack total was due to how awful the rest of the defense was at rushing the passer. Lawson, by himself, generated 44 pressures. The rest of the entire front seven, including backups, generated 50. So, Lawson generated six less pressures than the 12 other guys who say playing time within that front seven group. If you take out the LBers, Lawson generated more pressure by himself than the rest of the defensive line combined. He’s an elite pass rusher, though Hendrickson is also very good.

I get that, and its been that way his entire career when he's healthy. Dude is fast coming off the edge and gets a lot of pressures, always has. Imo, he's a different style of player than Hendrickson though. I think Ossai is more of a Lawson type than Hendrickson as far as style of play and how he could be used to pressure coming off the edge. Lawson has been a good player when healthy, but he never was a finisher. Pressures are nice but they dont always create negative plays for the opposing team in fact sometimes they end up being big plays against us, especially in this division. Sacks however, are negative plays for the opposing offense every time. We also needed to improve the run game and I think Hendrickson gets an edge over Lawson in that area. And I was never a Lawson hater, always liked him a lot, just was always waiting for his big breakout year to happen and it really didnt here. I hope he does well for the Jets. Maybe he finally gets that breakout year where he finishes the sacks and gets 10+. 

[BengalsBong]

(05-25-2021, 09:03 AM)BritishBengal Wrote: The starting defense (and offense for that matter) is strong and full of young dynamic players. I can see us starting the year well and surprising people. I just think we lack depth and I don't think the moves we made have in the offseason have changed that really (apart from corner). Rookies are such an unknown so it's hard to ever really know if they will be a significant upgrade. I worry that the team isnt well positioned to handle injuries to multiple position groups. Would really have liked to see an extra vet for the OL and LBs.

Eric Winston he could play RT or LT and was willing to ride the bench until he was needed. That is the type of guy we need just to fix the depth issue. So we don't have to play musical chairs and move everyone around because a tackle goes down.

[*ochocincos*]

(05-25-2021, 11:10 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Hendrickson, Reader, Ogunjobi, Hubbard
                 Pratt, Wilson
Wayne’s, Bates, Bell, Hilton, Awuzie/Philips


We just might mess around and have a top D. It all starts up front. And up front we were a train wreck last year. I can’t blame Lou for all that. Our DL depth this year is serious. Our young LBs now have some experience and won’t be playing behind a patchwork DL with motivation /leadership issues. And our remade secondary is the icing on the cake and could end up being a top unit with our stud safety combo flanked by high quality veteran CBs

I doubt the unit will be Top 10, but if it's not Top 15, it shows the ineptitude of Anarumo.
The only two starters still around from the Marvin era are Bates and Hubbard (who wasn't a starter yet), both of whom were just drafted in 2018.
They added Reader, Ogunjobi, Hendrickson, Waynes, Hilton, Awuzie, and Bell in FA, plus Pratt and Wilson in the draft.

No more excuses for needing to get "your guys."

[Dr.Z]

(05-26-2021, 03:04 PM)ochocincos Wrote: They added Reader, Ogunjobi, Hendrickson, Waynes, Hilton, Awuzie, and Bell in FA, plus Pratt and Wilson in the draft.

No more excuses for needing to get "your guys."

Agreed.  I feel this way regarding both sides of the ball.  

[*ochocincos*]

(05-26-2021, 04:49 PM)Dr.Z Wrote: Agreed.  I feel this way regarding both sides of the ball.  

Yep, offense too, although they have a few more guys from Marvin's team.
Mixon, Boyd, Tate, Hopkins, Price, Uzomah

However, Boyd, Mixon, Hopkins, and Uzomah were all extended after Taylor came in, so you have to assume he thinks they fit in his scheme.

[SunsetBengal]

(05-26-2021, 03:04 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I doubt the unit will be Top 10, but if it's not Top 15, it shows the ineptitude of Anarumo.
The only two starters still around from the Marvin era are Bates and Hubbard (who wasn't a starter yet), both of whom were just drafted in 2018.
They added Reader, Ogunjobi, Hendrickson, Waynes, Hilton, Awuzie, and Bell in FA, plus Pratt and Wilson in the draft.

No more excuses for needing to get "your guys."

Yes, I really like the group of talent that they have assembled.  I'm hoping that they can put it together and play well as a unit this season.

[jj22]

If the D is coached and schemed like the one that showed up against Pittsburg in prime time then they will be fine. I think they'll be improved (if healthy). And I think we saw the schemes potential in that game.

No need for a top 10, but one that plays physical, cocky, and aggressive will be enough to win games with the offense we (supposedly) have.

[*bengalfan74*]

(05-26-2021, 03:04 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I doubt the unit will be Top 10, but if it's not Top 15, it shows the ineptitude of Anarumo.
The only two starters still around from the Marvin era are Bates and Hubbard (who wasn't a starter yet), both of whom were just drafted in 2018.
They added Reader, Ogunjobi, Hendrickson, Waynes, Hilton, Awuzie, and Bell in FA, plus Pratt and Wilson in the draft.

No more excuses for needing to get "your guys."

What were we last season like 31st ? in total defense. I'd be pleased to jump all the way to 15th.

[OSUfan]

(05-25-2021, 09:16 AM)J24 Wrote: To me we downgraded at CB by losing Jackson and we downgraded at Edge by losing Lawson. Wayne's and Hendrickson are nice players but their clear downgrades to Jackson + Lawson.

For the rest of the Free agent signings; larry OG is an interesting signing if he can play up to his ability then we might have found a long term peace at 3T. Hilton looks like a stud and gives us yet another physical presence in the secondary.  Chidobe needs a bounce back season at CB but he is a solid player.

Reader coming back should help but he is just a NT albeit one with some pass rush ability. I think him and Larry could be a nice duo.

Sample and Oassi are intriguing prospects. If those two show up we could have a decent pass rush.

The LB core is still in experienced but talented. Wilson looks like the real deal, Pratt fits what you want in modern thumber at LB, and ADG is an intriguing talent. They will make mistakes but also a ton of plays.

If the Defense can be average then we're looking at a 500 and above team. If they stink it up then we will suck once again. It will be interesting to see the leash Taylor has with Lou this year.

Waynes and Hendrickson as clear downgrades to Jackson and Lawson? Sorry but that is anything but clear. Jackson played anything but consistently on the boundary. Lawson had made good strides in becoming and every down edge player but still had work to do against the run and he did lack the size that most DCs would like to have for an every down edge player. Hendrickson brings the size and the ability to play every down and hold up against the run.

I personally am excited to see a 100% recovered Markus Bailey get to take some real snaps at LB. If it had not been for the injuries he endured in college he would likely have been drafted far higher.