On criticizing NFL coaches

[fredtoast]

I get a kick out of a lot of people here who are constantly criticizing NFL coaches play calling and schemes.  95% of these fans could not tell you what type of scheme the opponent was running or how many different ways the Bengals have to block a running play or how many different route combinations the Bengals have in their playbook.

However, at the same time I may not be an engineer, but when I see a bridge falling apart I know something is wrong.

And that is kind of the way I feel about our offense right now.  I am not going to list the things I think the Bengals should change because I don't feel I am qualified.  But we have too much talent and things just never seem to run smoothly.  Our O-line is not great, but it is good enough to get better production than we are.

In another thread I started a while back I discussed how difficult it is to decide how much blame goes to the players and how much to the coaches.  One of the things I mentioned was third-down and red-zone possessions.  So far the Bengals have great in the red zone. Scoring a TD 80% of the time is third best in the league, but a very small sample size (8 of 10).  They are 23rd in third down conversion percentage (37.3), and 31st in third and short (1-2 yds)

Our offense is 28th in "drive success rate" (drive with at least one first down or td).  Way too many "three-and-outs".

Our O-line has not been real good, but pass protection has been decent. If we can't get push on third-and-short then we should just start passing on all those situations.  You don't need pass blocking to complete a 3-4 yard pass.  So far the Bengals have thrown on 43% of their third-and-short plays which is about exactly the same as the league average (41%).  The Steelers currently lead the league by throwing on 75% of their third-and-short plays and they have the league's third highest conversion percentage (83.3).  The Falcons throw on 64% of their third-and-short plays and have the 9th best conversion percentage (71.4).

I may not be able to see the fine details that need fixing, but our offense is underperforming for the talent we have.

[*rfaulk34*]

Situational play calling. Zac is terrible at it right now. Inconsistency; saying "that's how we are going to be", when he goes for it on 4th down on his own 30, then calls a run play on 3rd and 5 to get a couple yards closer for a long FG. 

Shotgun on 3rd and inches. Constantly running it up the gut when the Bengals don't have bulls to push a full yard or two.

He's been very inconsistent and scatter-brained in a lot of situations. He also over-thinks things too much like the Chicago game and how it looked to me at the beginning of the GB game (lots of passing). 

When the Bengals are up-tempo, the offense runs more smoothly. I'm not advocating doing that 80% of the time but it needs to be mixed in more just to keep the defense on it's toes or to break up the monotony of the offense starting slow and not doing anything until the 2nd half. 

Also, i laugh when people say "i was callling the plays before they ran them". Uh, no you weren't. The Bengals have pass and run plays out of the same formation and personnel grouping and they also have multiple options of plays out of the same formations. Just because you yelled "here comes a run!!" on 2nd or 3rd and short, one time, and they did it, doesn't mean you can call the plays before they are run. 

[*bfine32*]

The O has college talent.

We have 3 players that have done anything of merit in the NFL:

Riley Reiff
Tyler Boyd
Joe "I'm hurt" Mixon

The rest are kids or journeymen

[impactplaya]

I don't have film in front of me but on 3rd and short
Is the play design calling for a double team from OT
To OT?
And if.there is a double team is there a combo block
On a backer?
I think.The teams that are good on.3rd and short still
Incorporate a true FB.

[Whatever]

(10-12-2021, 11:38 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The O has college talent.

We have 3 players that have done anything of merit in the NFL:

Riley Reiff
Tyler Boyd
Joe "I'm hurt" Mixon

The rest are kids or journeymen

That's also a very fair point.  We're playing a lot of rookies and 2nd year guys on offense and several of the 2nd year guys have missed significant time with injury.  Lots of learning on the job going on.

[Bilbo Saggins]

If you can't criticize a product that is one of the worst in recorded history, I'm not sure just what you can criticize.  Zac Taylor is his record and his record is him.  He's earned a 3-14 record so far this season and I'm yet to be impressed by anything that he has done.  At least Marvin Lewis had charisma.  

[fredtoast]

(10-13-2021, 05:22 AM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote:   Zac Taylor is his record and his record is him. 

If you are going to be that simplistic in your analysis then there are only 8 NFL coaches better than him this year.

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-12-2021, 11:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I get a kick out of a lot of people here who are constantly criticizing NFL coaches play calling and schemes.  95% of these fans could not tell you what type of scheme the opponent was running or how many different ways the Bengals have to block a running play or how many different route combinations the Bengals have in their playbook.

However, at the same time I may not be an engineer, but when I see a bridge falling apart I know something is wrong.

And that is kind of the way I feel about our offense right now.  I am not going to list the things I think the Bengals should change because I don't feel I am qualified.  But we have too much talent and things just never seem to run smoothly.  Our O-line is not great, but it is good enough to get better production than we are.

In another thread I started a while back I discussed how difficult it is to decide how much blame goes to the players and how much to the coaches.  One of the things I mentioned was third-down and red-zone possessions.  So far the Bengals have great in the red zone. Scoring a TD 80% of the time is third best in the league, but a very small sample size (8 of 10).  They are 23rd in third down conversion percentage (37.3), and 31st in third and short (1-2 yds)

Our offense is 28th in "drive success rate" (drive with at least one first down or td).  Way too many "three-and-outs".

Our O-line has not been real good, but pass protection has been decent. If we can't get push on third-and-short then we should just start passing on all those situations.  You don't need pass blocking to complete a 3-4 yard pass.  So far the Bengals have thrown on 43% of their third-and-short plays which is about exactly the same as the league average (41%).  The Steelers currently lead the league by throwing on 75% of their third-and-short plays and they have the league's third highest conversion percentage (83.3).  The Falcons throw on 64% of their third-and-short plays and have the 9th best conversion percentage (71.4).

I may not be able to see the fine details that need fixing, but our offense is underperforming for the talent we have.

Tony Pike has been railing on this on Monday and Tuesday's "Cincy 360".  

He is dead on also.  He adds very clearly that he believes, for now, ZT is the right man for the head coaching position.   Good culture.  Good effort out of the team.  He even said that his scheme is good, but the execution of the actual situational play calling is terrible.  He called for Callahan to get the play-calling duties.  

One stat Tony added was that ZT has scored 24 or more points in just 8 games during his 37 game NFL career (non-overtime games).  Sure, you can throw out some of the year 1 games as Ryan Finley was starting.  You might give him a pass for some of the Brandon Allen games as well, but that number is pathetic given the talent on the roster.

I realize that on the offensive side of the ball, the Bengals are very young.  Maybe they just haven't "gelled" yet.  I'm not sure.  But for me, anyways, a lot of it is this lack of aggressiveness. That doesn't mean going for it on 4th down in certain situations, but having a more attacking nature.  They seem to go back and forth on what they want to be.  Empty sets.  Then they are under center and using play-action with wide-zone.  They they use the unbalanced line.  They are below average at just about everything and really good at NOTHING.  Maybe red zone efficiency, but they don't get there enough.

My idea:  Hurry up.  Give Burrow the command to run the offense from the LOS with no subs in drives.  When it is two-minute drill, Joe attacks and teams don't have time to communicate, line up, or substitute.  It seems to be out most lethal attack.  

One other addition:  screen their asses.  Last year in the 2nd Cleveland game, the Browns blitzed a lot, and Burrow just threw screen after screen to Drew Sample, who caught a lot of balls and moved the chains.  It was demoralizing for the Browns, high % for Burrow, and also avoided him getting hit.  

The bottom line is:  this team is wasting a top 10 defense.  They need to be better on offense, and right now.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-12-2021, 11:38 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The O has college talent.

We have 3 players that have done anything of merit in the NFL:

Riley Reiff
Tyler Boyd
Joe "I'm hurt" Mixon

The rest are kids or journeymen

While a little harsh (Jonah has been very good, Uzo is solid, Burrow is really, really good) there is a lot of truth to this.   But I see a lot of the same things in LA (Chargers) and their coach is dropping 40 burgers on teams on a weekly basis.  He attacks with his best weapons.  And he varies the pace.  

For the love of God, though, can we come up with a play on 3rd or 4th and 1 or less that doesn't involve Burrow sneaking the ball.  Gets pushed back every time.  I would rather go empty with Mixon taking a direct snap and having one more player defenses have to account for as a true running threat or blocking.  

[fredtoast]

(10-12-2021, 11:38 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The O has college talent.

We have 3 players that have done anything of merit in the NFL:

Riley Reiff
Tyler Boyd
Joe "I'm hurt" Mixon

The rest are kids or journeymen

I'm sure all the other NFL teams are not going to worry about Chase (top 10 in receiving yards, TDs, and yds/reception), Burrow (top 10 in passer rating and TDs), or Higgins (1000+ yds in 17 starts) because they are "just kids".

The TDs they score are not worth as many points as the ones scored by "grown ups" in the NFL, right?

[Sled21]

(10-13-2021, 08:13 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Tony Pike has been railing on this on Monday and Tuesday's "Cincy 360".  

He is dead on also.  He adds very clearly that he believes, for now, ZT is the right man for the head coaching position.   Good culture.  Good effort out of the team.  He even said that his scheme is good, but the execution of the actual situational play calling is terrible.  He called for Callahan to get the play-calling duties.  

One stat Tony added was that ZT has scored 24 or more points in just 8 games during his 37 game NFL career (non-overtime games).  Sure, you can throw out some of the year 1 games as Ryan Finley was starting.  You might give him a pass for some of the Brandon Allen games as well, but that number is pathetic given the talent on the roster.

I realize that on the offensive side of the ball, the Bengals are very young.  Maybe they just haven't "gelled" yet.  I'm not sure.  But for me, anyways, a lot of it is this lack of aggressiveness. That doesn't mean going for it on 4th down in certain situations, but having a more attacking nature.  They seem to go back and forth on what they want to be.  Empty sets.  Then they are under center and using play-action with wide-zone.  They they use the unbalanced line.  They are below average at just about everything and really good at NOTHING.  Maybe red zone efficiency, but they don't get there enough.

My idea:  Hurry up.  Give Burrow the command to run the offense from the LOS with no subs in drives.  When it is two-minute drill, Joe attacks and teams don't have time to communicate, line up, or substitute.  It seems to be out most lethal attack.  

One other addition:  screen their asses.  Last year in the 2nd Cleveland game, the Browns blitzed a lot, and Burrow just threw screen after screen to Drew Sample, who caught a lot of balls and moved the chains.  It was demoralizing for the Browns, high % for Burrow, and also avoided him getting hit.  

The bottom line is:  this team is wasting a top 10 defense.  They need to be better on offense, and right now.  

I agree with this 100%. He has an OC, he should use him.

[XenoMorph]

(10-13-2021, 06:51 AM)fredtoast Wrote: If you are going to be that simplistic in your analysis then there are only 8 NFL coaches better than him this year.

This year doesnt make up most of ZT career....  in the past 3 years which active coaches have a worse win percentage?

[fredtoast]

(10-13-2021, 08:46 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: This year doesnt make up most of ZT career....  in the past 3 years which active coaches have a worse win percentage?

Doesn't matter.

How much does last years record count toward making the playoffs this year?

If you believe that W/L record is the ONLY way to judge a coach then Taylor is a top 10 NFL coach this year.  Personally I think that is way too simplistic.

[Sled21]

People will continue to point to Taylor's overall record to continue to have things to complain about. The only record that counts this year is this year's record. We're 3-2 heading into Detroit, tied for 2nd in the division. What happened 2 years ago is irrelevant.

[jj22]

Am I reading this right? We aren't able to take a coaches overall record when analyzing if he is a good coach or not? We can only use his current years record?

[fredtoast]

(10-13-2021, 09:39 AM)jj22 Wrote: Am I reading this right? We aren't able to take a coaches overall record when analyzing if he is a good coach or not?

Nope.  

Let me make it simple enough for you to understand.

We should absolutely take a coach's record into account when analyzing his coaching ability.

But we should also look at a lot of other factors like player talent, injuries, strength of opponents, etc.

[TJ528]

(10-13-2021, 08:13 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Tony Pike has been railing on this on Monday and Tuesday's "Cincy 360".  

He is dead on also.  He adds very clearly that he believes, for now, ZT is the right man for the head coaching position.   Good culture.  Good effort out of the team.  He even said that his scheme is good, but the execution of the actual situational play calling is terrible.  He called for Callahan to get the play-calling duties.  

One stat Tony added was that ZT has scored 24 or more points in just 8 games during his 37 game NFL career (non-overtime games).  Sure, you can throw out some of the year 1 games as Ryan Finley was starting.  You might give him a pass for some of the Brandon Allen games as well, but that number is pathetic given the talent on the roster.

I realize that on the offensive side of the ball, the Bengals are very young.  Maybe they just haven't "gelled" yet.  I'm not sure.  But for me, anyways, a lot of it is this lack of aggressiveness. That doesn't mean going for it on 4th down in certain situations, but having a more attacking nature.  They seem to go back and forth on what they want to be.  Empty sets.  Then they are under center and using play-action with wide-zone.  They they use the unbalanced line.  They are below average at just about everything and really good at NOTHING.  Maybe red zone efficiency, but they don't get there enough.

My idea:  Hurry up.  Give Burrow the command to run the offense from the LOS with no subs in drives.  When it is two-minute drill, Joe attacks and teams don't have time to communicate, line up, or substitute.  It seems to be out most lethal attack.  

One other addition:  screen their asses.  Last year in the 2nd Cleveland game, the Browns blitzed a lot, and Burrow just threw screen after screen to Drew Sample, who caught a lot of balls and moved the chains.  It was demoralizing for the Browns, high % for Burrow, and also avoided him getting hit.  

The bottom line is:  this team is wasting a top 10 defense.  They need to be better on offense, and right now.  

This is one of my major issues with this team.  The team is much better than I thought they'd be this year. I'll give Lou the highest accolades for his success on the defensive side of the ball this year because that's a potential Top 10 defense.  It's not too often we can say we have a Top 10 defense in Cincinnati.  

Then you look at Zac's side of the ball.  He said in week 1 or 3 when they went for it on 4th down that "this is who were gonna be this year.  we're gonna be aggressive".  Then on Sunday, I see zero aggressiveness.  He was making play calls not to lose rather than to win the game.  

I look at this offense and honestly i see no imagination and creativity to it.  Maybe I've missed it or maybe its not in their play calling but, this team has a bunch of athletes, why not use them.  Why not use Chase on a sweep, or run a reverse. It keeps the defense off balance and keeps them guessing.  

The problem i see going forward is this teams going to play much better teams with much better DL and LB who can get after the QB.  If we're going to put Burrow in an empty set all the time he's gonna be running for his life.  

[jj22]

(10-13-2021, 09:42 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Nope.  

Let me make it simple enough for you to understand.

We should absolutely take a coach's record into account when analyzing his coaching ability.

But we should also look at a lot of other factors like player talent, injuries, strength of opponents, etc.

It was a response to Sleds post.

[fredtoast]

(10-13-2021, 09:47 AM)jj22 Wrote: It was a response to Sleds post.

I see now.

[Gdale_Bengal]

I’ll just add that you can’t put drops in coaches unless those coaches put bad talent on the field when you have better talent not on the field running those routes.

Like the great read and throw by Burrow to Higgins late in the game for a first down only to have Higgins drop a first down catch and room to run. That’s a good call by the coaches, adjustment, reading the defense and throw by burrow but the execution at the end failed.

I know Higgins is a good receiver, I know he has good hands to make catches other receivers can’t, but it seems that he is having a slump. I’d like to see him get another ball or 2 thrown his way to try to work him out of it.