On criticizing NFL coaches

[BengalsBong]

I get a kick out of people that think fans that have watched the game for 30 plus years do not have a clue at what they are watching.

[BengalChris]

(10-12-2021, 11:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I get a kick out of a lot of people here who are constantly criticizing NFL coaches play calling and schemes.  95% of these fans could not tell you what type of scheme the opponent was running or how many different ways the Bengals have to block a running play or how many different route combinations the Bengals have in their playbook.

However, at the same time I may not be an engineer, but when I see a bridge falling apart I know something is wrong.

And that is kind of the way I feel about our offense right now.  I am not going to list the things I think the Bengals should change because I don't feel I am qualified.  But we have too much talent and things just never seem to run smoothly.  Our O-line is not great, but it is good enough to get better production than we are.

In another thread I started a while back I discussed how difficult it is to decide how much blame goes to the players and how much to the coaches.  One of the things I mentioned was third-down and red-zone possessions.  So far the Bengals have great in the red zone. Scoring a TD 80% of the time is third best in the league, but a very small sample size (8 of 10).  They are 23rd in third down conversion percentage (37.3), and 31st in third and short (1-2 yds)

Our offense is 28th in "drive success rate" (drive with at least one first down or td).  Way too many "three-and-outs".

Our O-line has not been real good, but pass protection has been decent. If we can't get push on third-and-short then we should just start passing on all those situations.  You don't need pass blocking to complete a 3-4 yard pass.  So far the Bengals have thrown on 43% of their third-and-short plays which is about exactly the same as the league average (41%).  The Steelers currently lead the league by throwing on 75% of their third-and-short plays and they have the league's third highest conversion percentage (83.3).  The Falcons throw on 64% of their third-and-short plays and have the 9th best conversion percentage (71.4).

I may not be able to see the fine details that need fixing, but our offense is underperforming for the talent we have.

Hum, yeah, well, the coach is in charge of the team's play. It is his job to get the most out of his guys and design the O and D to get the most out of their skills to give the team the best chance of winning!

It all rides right there.

It's not about the players are too old, or their Marvin's guys and not Zac guys, or they're all so young now, or the NFL average is X, or any of that BS. It comes down to getting what you have (players) to do the best they can some way or other and that may not be with the plays and scheme you thought it would be at the start of the season.

I've pointed out before that last year's Bucs who had lost 3 of 4 games going into the bye and they looked at what they were doing that worked well and what didn't work well and the changed what they focused on. They didn't lose another game after that and bingo - SB!

But that takes a coach who isn't so vested in his own little world of plays and scheme that his plays and scheme are more important than winning games.

Taylor couldn't win with Dalton, but two different coaches have taken Dalton to two wins over Taylor. LMAO

 

[fredtoast]

(10-13-2021, 02:25 PM)bfine32 Wrote:  If I want to have a trival conversation with a child; I'll make like Urban Meyers and go "visit the grandkids"

I find that hard to believe considering you just spent an entire post saying nothing about football but instead just trying to insult me for making your comment look stupid.  And then trying to claim that you are above all that.

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-13-2021, 02:12 PM)Earendil Wrote: I would love to see Joe run some kind of no-huddle, hurry-up offense. And not just with less than two minutes left in a half.  The kid is smart enough to run it, let him loose.

I touched on this as well in either this thread or another one recently.  When has the offense been most effective?  Two minute.  There should be your new base offense.  

[XenoMorph]

(10-14-2021, 07:08 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I touched on this as well in either this thread or another one recently.  When has the offense been most effective?  Two minute.  There should be your new base offense.  

playing hurry up and failing puts the D on the field with no rest

[Daddy-O]

(10-13-2021, 08:13 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Tony Pike has been railing on this on Monday and Tuesday's "Cincy 360".  

He is dead on also.  He adds very clearly that he believes, for now, ZT is the right man for the head coaching position.   Good culture.  Good effort out of the team.  He even said that his scheme is good, but the execution of the actual situational play calling is terrible.  He called for Callahan to get the play-calling duties.  

One stat Tony added was that ZT has scored 24 or more points in just 8 games during his 37 game NFL career (non-overtime games).  Sure, you can throw out some of the year 1 games as Ryan Finley was starting.  You might give him a pass for some of the Brandon Allen games as well, but that number is pathetic given the talent on the roster.

I realize that on the offensive side of the ball, the Bengals are very young.  Maybe they just haven't "gelled" yet.  I'm not sure.  But for me, anyways, a lot of it is this lack of aggressiveness. That doesn't mean going for it on 4th down in certain situations, but having a more attacking nature.  They seem to go back and forth on what they want to be.  Empty sets.  Then they are under center and using play-action with wide-zone.  They they use the unbalanced line.  They are below average at just about everything and really good at NOTHING.  Maybe red zone efficiency, but they don't get there enough.

My idea:  Hurry up.  Give Burrow the command to run the offense from the LOS with no subs in drives.  When it is two-minute drill, Joe attacks and teams don't have time to communicate, line up, or substitute.  It seems to be out most lethal attack.  

One other addition:  screen their asses.  Last year in the 2nd Cleveland game, the Browns blitzed a lot, and Burrow just threw screen after screen to Drew Sample, who caught a lot of balls and moved the chains.  It was demoralizing for the Browns, high % for Burrow, and also avoided him getting hit.  

The bottom line is:  this team is wasting a top 10 defense.  They need to be better on offense, and right now.  

Great post!  The only thing I worry about with the hurry up is putting the defense back on the field so fast, especially if the offense doesn't sustain drives.

Definitely should use it more throughout the game though just to keep the other D off balance.  And like you said Joe seems to do very well in it.

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-14-2021, 08:50 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: playing hurry up and failing puts the D on the field with no rest

Right now the Bengals have ZERO points on their first drives of games. (Burrow says you can't zero him?)  ZERO.  Not even a damn FG.  And they have won the toss and deferred an incredible 10 times in a row.  Sure, leave it to the Bengals to have luck at something pretty insignificant.  

I don't think they can put the defense in a much worse position to start a game.  

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(10-14-2021, 12:13 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Right now the Bengals have ZERO points on their first drives of games. (Burrow says you can't zero him?)  ZERO.  Not even a damn FG.  And they have won the toss and deferred an incredible 10 times in a row.  Sure, leave it to the Bengals to have luck at something pretty insignificant.  

I don't think they can put the defense in a much worse position to start a game.  

They would have against Jax (yes, I know, 4/5 isn't good), if not for refs and a poor kick.

[TheFan]

(10-14-2021, 08:56 AM)Daddy-O Wrote: Great post!  The only thing I worry about with the hurry up is putting the defense back on the field so fast, especially if the offense doesn't sustain drives.

Definitely should use it more throughout the game though just to keep the other D off balance.  And like you said Joe seems to do very well in it.

I'd like to see us try it more maybe on 2nd and short or 3rd and short. They have to do something different in short yardage situations because it's we're absolutely horrible at it and it stalls our offense way too much. 

[XenoMorph]

(10-14-2021, 12:13 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Right now the Bengals have ZERO points on their first drives of games. (Burrow says you can't zero him?)  ZERO.  Not even a damn FG.  And they have won the toss and deferred an incredible 10 times in a row.  Sure, leave it to the Bengals to have luck at something pretty insignificant.  

I don't think they can put the defense in a much worse position to start a game.  

I think letting joe run a no huddle offense would work... Just not quick snaps.   (let the clock run a bit see the defense set and make adjustments..)

Like Peyton used to run   (gives joe a little more control too)

[Bengalitis]

I want Taylor out. 5-0, 4-1, 3-2 it don't matter. I hope the Bengals are busy looking for our next HC already. Unless they have in mind Pollack.

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-14-2021, 04:13 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: I think letting joe run a no huddle offense would work... Just not quick snaps.   (let the clock run a bit see the defense set and make adjustments..)

Like Peyton used to run   (gives joe a little more control too)

Exactly.  Don't let teams sub.  Get them in a heavy run defense and then air it out.  

[*bfine32*]

(10-14-2021, 04:16 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: I want Taylor out. 5-0, 4-1, 3-2 it don't matter.  I hope the Bengals are busy looking for our next HC already. Unless they have in mind Pollack.

I hope they are busy trying to win games. I get the desire for a new HC, but I think 3-2 after 5 games with 0 losses within the conference is the wrong time to start a coaching hunt.

[*bfine32*]

(10-14-2021, 04:13 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: I think letting joe run a no huddle offense would work... Just not quick snaps.   (let the clock run a bit see the defense set and make adjustments..)

Like Peyton used to run   (gives joe a little more control too)

(10-14-2021, 04:17 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Exactly.  Don't let teams sub.  Get them in a heavy run defense and then air it out.  

Go back to the "Sugar Huddle". teams couldn't stop it. I remember the Bills faking numerous injuries just to try and slow it down; then they implemented it the following year.

[Earendil]

(10-14-2021, 04:47 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Go back to the "Sugar Huddle". teams couldn't stop it. I remember the Bills faking numerous injuries just to try and slow it down; then they implemented it the following year.

Seahawks too.  I remember their NT, Joe "Trick Knee" Nash went down several times to slow down the offense.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-13-2021, 01:28 AM)Whatever Wrote: That's also a very fair point.  We're playing a lot of rookies and 2nd year guys on offense and several of the 2nd year guys have missed significant time with injury.  Lots of learning on the job going on.

Yep, and some for the coaches too it seems. But b does have a point. We'll see how it progresses.

[BengalsRocker]

Taylor ought to just let Callahan run the offense.

If he stinks, fire him, and hire another experienced OC next season.

I'm not a Zac fan but if he can run the other aspects of HC and get out of the way of the OC... I'd be fine with that.

[Shake n Blake]

Fred: "When others criticize coaches, they're buffoons, but when I do it, yall should listen up."

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-14-2021, 12:13 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Right now the Bengals have ZERO points on their first drives of games. (Burrow says you can't zero him?)  ZERO.  Not even a damn FG.  And they have won the toss and deferred an incredible 10 times in a row.  Sure, leave it to the Bengals to have luck at something pretty insignificant.  

I don't think they can put the defense in a much worse position to start a game.  

It hasn’t really been insignificant though. They’ve been lethal at scoring right before halftime, and right after.

[Bilbo Saggins]

(10-13-2021, 06:51 AM)fredtoast Wrote: If you are going to be that simplistic in your analysis then there are only 8 NFL coaches better than him this year.

The Jaguars were 3-1... immediately prior to losing 20 straight games. I guess we should forget about those 20 losses and fixate on the stretch that they were 3-1. Cherry picking is fun. 

Fun facts: these 20 straight loss Jaguars only lost to the Bengals by 3 points. They generated the same number of first downs as the Bengals did when they played.