Elephant in the Room

[Essex Johnson]

(11-07-2021, 08:29 PM)TheCincinnatiKid Wrote: Yeah I'd agree. Obviously right now nobody can sign him off as the guy for the next 15 years... we drafted him in the hope he's the messiah, and if that's the case then he'll be our guy for 15 years. We definitely can't sit here waiting for 15 years for him to be great for sure. He's gotta come up with the goods in the early years too.

So far I think he's still a very promising QB for us. I think he could be a great one. But it's possible he won't too, just too early to tell. The question I guess we need to ask is where does he fit when you compare him in Year 2, to Dalton/Palmer in Year 2? If he's going to be the guy, he's going to have to be a lot better than both of those two. 

well better compare is to Palmer.. he was #1 pick also.. Dalton was a 2nd round pick, I believe 5th QB taken in draft and really his performance overall at his draft level probably was right there compared to  Newtons as #1 pick..   so Burrow really does need to live up to the #1 pick overall.. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-07-2021, 08:49 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: LOL

I think that we've had this discussion before but they wanted a WR to open up the field and then hope he survives the season with not enough added to the O-line from one of the deepest O-line drafts in recent memory.

Chase was the right pick, and a huge reason we started 5-2. Had they taken Creed Humphrey in the 2nd round nobody would be saying a word right now. The opportunity to hit home runs with both their first 2 picks was there.

[Essex Johnson]

(11-07-2021, 09:07 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Chase was the right pick, and a huge reason we started 5-2. Had they taken Creed Humphrey in the 2nd round nobody would be saying a word right now. The opportunity to hit home runs with both their first 2 picks was there.

i agree on 5-2 , also believe part of reason we lost last two.... rookies do have to make adjustments as teams see more tape... you really do have to wait till end of year to really evaluate a draft pick... plus we do seem to worry about Oline  as we did before, so will take a few years to decide if Chase was right pick over a Oline pick

[Tony]

I was one of the few who said it was a Problem when this thread was started. I think we might be seeing Burrows limitations... This isn't college anymore. This might just be who Burrow is. He had a super team around him at LSU..
I still hold out hope he can fix it and still be a top 10 QB eventually...

[Murdock2420]

(11-07-2021, 09:12 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: i agree on 5-2 , also believe part of reason we lost last two.... rookies do have to make adjustments as teams see more tape... you really do have to wait till end of year to really evaluate a draft pick... plus we do seem to worry about Oline  as we did before, so will take a few years to decide if Chase was right pick over a Oline pick

I really don't want to see this debate get going again. What's done is done.

But it is important to know this reality with rookie OL-men. They generally take a year to adjust to the NFL so there is still hope Carman improves. But this means that the Bengals have to be active in FA for the OL, and early on otherwise you will have another season of subpar OL play as the rookies try to adapt to the pro game.

[Essex Johnson]

(11-07-2021, 09:16 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I really don't want to see this debate get going again. What's done is done.

But it is important to know this reality with rookie OL-men. They generally take a year to adjust to the NFL so there is still hope Carman improves. But this means that the Bengals have to be active in FA for the OL, and early on otherwise you will have another season of subpar OL play as the rookies try to adapt to the pro game.

Its not about debate but about performance in the long term.. i was responding to saying that Chasewa s right pick no discussion.. if your going to state that , it starts a discussion agree?

[jj22]

I think it's fair to wonder if Dalton was better? He certainly was at equal points of their career.

The talent question between the two teams 2011-2012/2020-2021 is a wash at this point, so we should be able to compare the two QB's by now.

Burrow needs to be a game manager and not a "gun slinger". His arm isn't Farves and he can't be one in the NFL.

[Murdock2420]

(11-07-2021, 09:18 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Its not about debate but about performance in the long term.. i was responding to saying that Chase is was right pick.. if your going to state that , it starts a debate.. agree?

Fair enough.

Just don't think the board needs to get this going again. There is no more real debate the Bengals made their choice and in a few seasons we can look back as you said and will know what the outcome of it all was.

[*michaelsean*]

(11-07-2021, 09:15 PM)Tony Wrote: I was one of the few who said it was a Problem when this thread was started. I think we might be seeing Burrows limitations... This isn't college anymore. This might just be who Burrow is. He had a super team around him at LSU..
I still hold out hope he can fix it and still be a top 10 QB eventually...

I guess it depends on your metric. He’s top ten in several categories.

TDs, completion %, yards, yards per attempt are a few I looked up.

[Tony]

(11-07-2021, 09:18 PM)jj22 Wrote: I think it's fair to wonder if Dalton was better? He certainly was at equal points of their career.

The talent question between the two teams 2011-2012/2020-2021 is a wash at this point, so we should be able to compare the two QB's by now.

Unfortunately,  this argument can be made... A lot of us over valued Burrow too soon... We just expected too much. You can't really blame us after the year he had at LSU in 2019....

[Essex Johnson]

(11-07-2021, 09:20 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Fair enough.

Just don't think the board needs to get this going again. There is no more real debate the Bengals made their choice and in a few seasons we can look back as you said and will know what the outcome of it all was.

Well I wish the board did that came to other players but they did not.. so silence is not selective.. but im not the one that started the Chase was right or wrong pick, so i don;t think it was me to go down the rabbit hole, it was someone else

[Bengalholic]

(11-07-2021, 09:02 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Again, people just showing their ignorance with comments like this. The decision making was fine on both INT’s. The reads were correct. Both throws were just inaccurate. The pick 6 was late and inside, and the 2nd one was a tad behind Chase. Neither were a matter of bad decisions or not reading the coverage, they just weren’t good throws.

There's definitely been times this year that Joe's made bonehead decisions and thrown passes that shouldn't have been thrown. That's played a part in some these picks...something Joe has already acknowledged. 

We've seen how awesome Joe can be, but we've also seen what happens when he tries to force things. Of course, his receivers haven't exactly helped him out much the last couple of weeks either.

[BengalsRocker]

(11-07-2021, 09:27 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: There's definitely been times this year that Joe's made bonehead decisions and thrown passes that shouldn't have been thrown. That's played a part in some these picks...something Joe has already acknowledged. 

We've seen how awesome Joe can be, but we've also seen what happens when he tries to force things to happen. Of course, his receivers haven't exactly helped him out much the last couple of weeks either.

He also needs to stop trying to tackle after turnovers.

I know it's hard for an athlete to just turn the instinct off but damn that guy is gonna get himself hurt.

[jj22]

(11-07-2021, 09:30 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: He also needs to stop trying to tackle after turnovers.

I know it's hard for an athlete to just turn the instinct off but damn that guy is gonna get himself hurt.

Fixing the INT's would automatically fix this. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-07-2021, 09:18 PM)jj22 Wrote: I think it's fair to wonder if Dalton was better? He certainly was at equal points of their career.

The talent question between the two teams 2011-2012/2020-2021 is a wash at this point, so we should be able to compare the two QB's by now.

Burrow needs to be a game manager and not a "gun slinger". His arm isn't Farves and he can't be one in the NFL.

I wasn’t on the old board, but was there this this much mass hysteria when Dalton was throwing a ton of picks (20) in 2013?

[BengalsRocker]

(11-07-2021, 09:32 PM)jj22 Wrote: Fixing the INT's would automatically fix this. 

True.

Yet we've seen him make some bonehead scrambles/runs without sliding as well.

He needs to tighten up and play smarter.

[jj22]

(11-07-2021, 09:32 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I wasn’t on the old board, but was there this this much mass hysteria when Dalton was throwing a ton of picks (20) in 2013?

When we were headed to the playoffs for a 3rd straight year to open his era? I can't remember. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-07-2021, 09:27 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: There's definitely been times this year that Joe's made bonehead decisions and thrown passes that shouldn't have been thrown. That's played a part in some these picks...something Joe has already acknowledged. 

We've seen how awesome Joe can be, but we've also seen what happens when he tries to force things. Of course, his receivers haven't exactly helped him out much the last couple of weeks either.

Right. I was talking about just today.

[Tony]

(11-07-2021, 09:23 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I guess it depends on your metric. He’s top ten in several categories.

TDs, completion %, yards, yards per attempt are a few I looked up.

How about interceptions?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-07-2021, 09:30 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: He also needs to stop trying to tackle after turnovers.

I know it's hard for an athlete to just turn the instinct off but damn that guy is gonna get himself hurt.

Agreed. It’s a disaster waiting to happen.