Offensive Line Stats Concerning

[Shake n Blake]

Hopkins and XSF/Carman have been atrocious. Not average. Not so-so. Bad. Among the lowest graded linemen in the league.

Our pass block win rate was 22nd heading into this game and likely got worse. We're 25th in yards per carry.

60% of the line is good/great this year.
40% of the line has been abysmal.

We have work to do. Would be nice if we could swing a trade. We have a window to do something special here.

[Joelist]

I think it is Trey Hill time at C and we need to consider depending on Carman's in jury giving D'Ante Smith a shot at RG. Even if they struggle they have high upside and Hill's strong suit is his anchor - which is where Hopkins is struggling.

[Nicomo Cosca]

Nobody has answered me (I’ve asked in a couple different threads), but does anyone know the earliest Smith, XSF, or Adeniji could be back? Thought I saw something about Adeniji being cleared to practice recently. He might be a better option than Trey Hill if Carman is out for awhile.

As much as I’d welcome a trade for a C or a OG I’m assuming we’re going to have to roll with what we got.

[KillerGoose]

(11-01-2021, 09:24 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Nobody has answered me (I’ve asked in a couple different threads), but does anyone know the earliest Smith, XSF, or Adeniji could be back? Thought I saw something about Adeniji being cleared to practice recently. He might be a better option than Trey Hill if Carman is out for awhile.

As much as I’d welcome a trade for a C or a OG I’m assuming we’re going to have to roll with what we got.

Hakeem is available now. No news on XSF and I think Smith is done until late in the season. He had a meniscus injury IIRC.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-01-2021, 09:27 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Hakeem is available now. No news on XSF and I think Smith is done until late in the season. He had a meniscus injury IIRC.

Thanks.

[samhain]

I think trey Hill might settle down if given time. That said, if I were the Bengals, I'd be looking to trade for an established guard to plug in. Karras has been mentioned.

[*Go Cards*]

(11-01-2021, 08:51 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Their DL certainly is. I already posted the numbers of what they did to the Titans (you know - the team currently in 1st place in the AFC).

For the record, when the Jets beat the Titans they produced a 70.2% win rate (!!), 6 sacks and 34 QB pressures.

The Bengals cut all that in half or better. Yes, the OL played well. Especially well enough to win.

— Andrew Russell (@PFF_AndrewR) November 1, 2021

Right now we have a problem at 2 spots; C and RG. That’s a hell of a lot better than last year when it was all 5. To act like there hasn’t been improvement is disingenuous.

When have I ever said the O-line has not been improved ? 

I don't even hate Carman and think he will develop to be fine eventually. don't think he is the right guy presently though and he is in the middle of a learning curve switching positions and leagues. 
Think it is C and RT that needs to be addressed after season with Reiff getting long in the tooth and becoming a FA anyway. But hopefully Hill claims the spot and never looks back.

Was in the draft Sewell camp but not once was I not on board with the Chase move. But keep on claiming Im a hater, it's ok.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-01-2021, 09:57 PM)Go Cards Wrote: When have I ever said the O-line has not been improved ? 

I don't even hate Carman and think he will develop to be fine eventually. don't think he is the right guy presently though and he is in the middle of a learning curve switching positions and leagues. 
Think it is C and RT that needs to be addressed after season with Reiff getting long in the tooth and becoming a FA anyway. 

Was in the draft Sewell camp but not once was I not on board with the Chase move. But keep on claiming Im a hater, it's ok.

I didn’t claim you were a hater. Calm down. As for not recognizing improvement, I was more referring to the OP, who has a weird dislike of Frank Pollack. He’s even gone so far as to blame Pollack for Hopkins’ struggles coming off an injury. Pretty silly, right?

Anyway, I personally think they’ll re-sign both Spain and Reiff. An ideal scenario for me would be Reiff on a year to year basis, with D’Ante Smith developing into our future RT. The FA Centers are pretty slim pickings this year (better options at OG), so barring a trade - - which is pretty unlikely, I think we probably draft Hopkins replacement this offseason.

[*Go Cards*]

(11-01-2021, 10:08 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I didn’t claim you were a hater. Calm down. As for not recognizing improvement, I was more referring to the OP, who has a weird dislike of Frank Pollack. He’s even gone so far as to blame Pollack for Hopkins’ struggles coming off an injury. Pretty silly, right?

Anyway, I personally think they’ll re-sign both Spain and Reiff. An ideal scenario for me would be Reiff on a year to year basis, with D’Ante Smith developing into our future RT. The FA Centers are pretty slim pickings this year (better options at OG), so barring a trade - - which is pretty unlikely, I think we probably draft Hopkins replacement this offseason.

Am very calm and hope they do re-sign Spain and Reiff. Yet Spain will be looking for a payday if he keeps it up and we all know MB does not like paying interior O-line position players. Again hope we do but its not a given even though it is logical. 

Yet I will not accept the argument that at least they are better than last few seasons or being called ridiculous over thinking the O-line needs improvement. 

It's all good and I don't really sweat anything and enjoy most of your informative posts.  

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-01-2021, 10:22 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Am very calm and hope they do re-sign Spain and Reiff. Yet Spain will be looking for a payday if he keeps it up and we all know MB does not like paying interior O-line position players. Again hope we do but its not a given even though it is logical. 

Yet I will not accept the argument that at least they are better than last few seasons or being called ridiculous over thinking the O-line needs improvement. 

It's all good and I don't really sweat anything and enjoy most of your informative posts.  

Sorry about the ridiculous, remark. The whole - - Burrow is going to die thing is kind of triggering. I just appreciate having some context when it comes to discussing this stuff (like Burrow himself and the RB’s/TE’s being responsible for a bunch of the early sacks). Sometimes the numbers don’t tell the whole story.

They absolutely need to be better at running the ball in short situations though, that I will completely agree with. I think Pollack is doing a good job, but there’s definitely room for improvement in the running game. Which we have seen during the second half of the season a couple times in recent years.

[*Go Cards*]

This post is directed at nobody specifically just updating my opinion.

Was in the draft an OL camp in off season as usual when Bengals don't have a pat hand. But then Burrow said he wanted Chase and I switched gears knowing Bengals were not going upset their new shiny toy JB, nor should they and definitely draft Chase.


Like most everybody else in the draft an OL camp, Just wanted to protect Joe because he looks like the real deal and want him to have a long career here in Cincinnati. Yet always loved Chase and even said in the draft Joe Burrow threads that my only concern was that Chase was so good he may be making Joe look better than he actually is, but the pros definitely outweighed the cons and happy to have Joe as the face of the Bengals.

Presently I am in the camp of being very ecstatic with Joe and Ja'Marr being in stripes and like everything move made in off season. Yet do not feel the O-line was fixed completely and now feel it needs addressed again. Hill may be one of the answers but we just don't know yet.

This is no shot fired at the Chase camp at all. Just feel the Bengals are close to getting over the hump but will have to figure a way to get some push from interior O-line on crucial plays to get there, plus keep QB healthy.

In closing I am happy with the Chase and Carman as Bengals and believe eventually Carman will work out by seasons end. If not we may need to shop for G again, but think he will get it. He is highly intelligent and strong as an ox, just has a big adjustment to adapt to NFL still at his new position.

Chase is already the truth

[Frank Booth]

(11-01-2021, 09:15 PM)Joelist Wrote: I think it is Trey Hill time at C 

Trey Hill is so bad that Im wondering how much crack you been smoking?

[Shake n Blake]

(11-02-2021, 01:36 PM)Go Cards Wrote: This post is directed at nobody specifically just updating my opinion.

Was in the draft an OL camp in off season as usual when Bengals don't have a pat hand. But then Burrow said he wanted Chase and I switched gears knowing Bengals were not going upset their new shiny toy JB, nor should they and definitely draft Chase.


Like most everybody else in the draft an OL camp, Just wanted to protect Joe because he looks like the real deal and want him to have a long career here in Cincinnati. Yet always loved Chase and even said in the draft Joe Burrow threads that my only concern was that Chase was so good he may be making Joe look better than he actually is, but the pros definitely outweighed the cons and happy to have Joe as the face of the Bengals.

Presently I am in the camp of being very ecstatic with Joe and Ja'Marr being in stripes and like everything move made in off season. Yet do not feel the O-line was fixed completely and now feel it needs addressed again. Hill may be one of the answers but we just don't know yet.

This is no shot fired at the Chase camp at all. Just feel the Bengals are close to getting over the hump but will have to figure a way to get some push from interior O-line on crucial plays to get there, plus keep QB healthy.

In closing I am happy with the Chase and Carman as Bengals and believe eventually Carman will work out by seasons end. If not we may need to shop for G again, but think he will get it. He is highly intelligent and strong as an ox, just has a big adjustment to adapt to NFL still at his new position.

Chase is already the truth

Well said. I really wanted Sewell in April as well, but my current stance is this:

I'm happy we have the Chase and Burrow tandem. I'd say we made the right choice. That said, I feel like NOW I can't express my concerns about the o-line without people thinking it has something to do with winning some debate from April.

It's. Not. About. That.

I don't care about what was said in the past. The feelings I express in here are 100% genuine, and I don't formulate all of my takes around proving someone wrong. I know some people on here operate in that manner, but it's definitely not me.

I feel Carman is a "decent" prospect, but he's showing that he's not there yet. He and Hopkins have been liabilities. In the case of Carman, that might not be the case a year from now, but right now it is. His backs now an issue as well.

-----------------

In summary, I'm not sure what we should do this year. I'd comb the market for a Center upgrade or even a RG option.

Then next year, we should prioritize signing Spain, finding long term solutions at C and RT, and perhaps bring some veteran competition for Carman at RG.

I'm a line guy. Always have been, and tbh we haven't had a dominant line (IMO) since 2005. So looking at this line compared to what I want it to be? We have a LOT of work ahead of us.

...and that has zilch to do with any stupid debate.