Props to Zac Taylor for Play Calling

[fredtoast]

(11-22-2021, 02:42 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I guess I’m an idiot, how is 4.1 YPC not very good? Sticking with the run is what kept the Bengals in control and sealed the game… funny how fan perspectives differ.

Even when it works and the Bengals score 30+ the typical fan knows better.

This is because the typical fan can never be wrong.  No matter what happens on the field it would have been better if the fan was calling the plays.

And there is no way to prove them wrong.  That is the beauty of being a fan and complaining about play calling.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-22-2021, 03:11 PM)Stewy Wrote: He's the run game coordinator.  He doesn't call run plays....he builds the scheme.

Are we sure?

I'm honestly not sure because we have an offensive coordinator but he doesn't call plays, but most do.
I guess I assumed when Pollack was coming in as the run game coordinator, he was calling the specific run play after Taylor decided whether it was going to be a run or pass.

[*PhilHos*]

(11-22-2021, 03:29 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Burrow stated after game if DC Bradley gets you in 3rd and long they unleash a fierce pass rush.

And we were in 3rd and short quite a lot. Wha tsurprised me was how oftenwe converted those.

[GreenCornBengal]

(11-22-2021, 04:28 PM)PhilHos Wrote: And we were in 3rd and short quite a lot. Wha tsurprised me was how oftenwe converted those.

It’s been a funny year. If it’s 3rd and 1 I’m like ughhhh haha. 3rd and 5 feels safer. Mixon had a nice second yard gain but ended a yard short and instead of being like “woo good play!”, I was like damnit that’s the worst thing for us!

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(11-22-2021, 03:19 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I’m not complaining, I’m just discussing. I’m thrilled Cincinnati won, but talking the numbers is enjoyable to me.

I get what you were saying about the run/pass ratio earlier and I appreciate the opportunity to clarify something. I’m known on here as a defense guy who loves a run-first offense BUT if the run is NOT working I’m ALL for passing to get the job done. Sometimes the opposing defense frustrates even the best offensive game plan — and the best coaches adjust.

Let’s go back to yesterday’s game. At first, neither the pass nor the run was working; Joe Mixon was getting stuffed like a Thanksgiving turkey in the backfield. Joe Burrow was pressured way too much when passing and, combined with respectable coverage by the Raiders’ secondary, passing became too risky.

When neither the pass nor the run work, the play caller has to make a decision: Which has the greatest probability of success? Run? Pass?

If you’re Cincinnati it’s best to pick the run this year. It’s easier for the offensive line to adjust to run blocking mode and receivers aren’t under pressure to get open.

[Bengalitis]

any link to the video play? i know i missed it during the game

[XenoMorph]

(11-22-2021, 03:46 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Are we sure?

I'm honestly not sure because we have an offensive coordinator but he doesn't call plays, but most do.
I guess I assumed when Pollack was coming in as the run game coordinator, he was calling the specific run play after Taylor decided whether it was going to be a run or pass.

they only have so much time to get the play in...  And i think only 1 coach can call in plays to the QB...   A Run game Coordinator would be like a passing coordinator.. Design the plays 

[*ochocincos*]

(11-22-2021, 05:42 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: they only have so much time to get the play in...  And i think only 1 coach can call in plays to the QB...   A Run game Coordinator would be like a passing coordinator.. Design the plays 

So does that mean that Callahan is designing the pass plays, Pollack is designing the run plays, and Taylor is the one picking which one to run on a given play?

Or does Taylor also design the pass plays?

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-22-2021, 02:42 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: You have to keep the D honest even if it isn't working. Teams have to fear the running game to open up the pass.

BTW, we don't know who is calling the plays, sometimes it looks like it is Callahan, sometimes Zac and on runs it can be Pollack
or the analytics dude. We don't know who to give props to honestly. Think they all work together including Burrow.

They all work together during the week in the game plan but there's only one guy talking into the mic before the play is ran. Zac. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-22-2021, 02:48 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: But more bad things can go wrong when you pass more than run. It is a good argument but I think my logic holds true.

I know Burrow loves his empty sets but that is when he gets hit the most.

You have to keep in mind, it's your logic vs thousands of games worth of statistical data that points towards a trend. 

[Au165]

(11-22-2021, 05:56 PM)ochocincos Wrote: So does that mean that Callahan is designing the pass plays, Pollack is designing the run plays, and Taylor is the one picking which one to run on a given play?

Or does Taylor also design the pass plays?

It differs from team to team. My guess is it mirrors what Taylor did in LA with McVay. Essentially McVay has overarching say in everything, but the run game coordinator will design the plays to his scheme but McVay still calls them. It's similar to the OC, they help with gameplan and play creation but in the end McVay has final say.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-22-2021, 06:17 PM)Au165 Wrote: It differs from team to team. My guess is it mirrors what Taylor did in LA with McVay. Essentially McVay has overarching say in everything, but the run game coordinator will design the plays to his scheme but McVay still calls them. It's similar to the OC, they help with gameplan and play creation but in the end McVay has final say.

Taylor is definitely no McVay though.

[Au165]

(11-22-2021, 06:35 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Taylor is definitely no McVay though.

No, but he learned how to operate there and is friends with that whole crew and they all do it the same way (Shanahan, LeFleur, Kingsburry)

[NUGDUKWE]

Anything over 4 ypc is good. I don't really have a problem with the run game it started off slow but they got it going. To me something just seems off with the pass game. Early in the game yesterday it just seemed like we the Raiders were getting a lot of either coverage sacks or pressure due to our WRs not getting open. I still think we need to use the RBs in the passing game more especially early to help move the ball and give Burrow an easy outlet.

[KillerGoose]

(11-22-2021, 04:45 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: I get what you were saying about the run/pass ratio earlier and I appreciate the opportunity to clarify something. I’m known on here as a defense guy who loves a run-first offense BUT if the run is NOT working I’m ALL for passing to get the job done. Sometimes the opposing defense frustrates even the best offensive game plan — and the best coaches adjust.

Let’s go back to yesterday’s game. At first, neither the pass nor the run was working; Joe Mixon was getting stuffed like a Thanksgiving turkey in the backfield. Joe Burrow was pressured way too much when passing and, combined with respectable coverage by the Raiders’ secondary, passing became too risky.

When neither the pass nor the run work, the play caller has to make a decision: Which has the greatest probability of success? Run? Pass?

If you’re Cincinnati it’s best to pick the run this year. It’s easier for the offensive line to adjust to run blocking mode and receivers aren’t under pressure to get open.

It’s probably safer to choose the run, but you’re generally going to get less returns on the run. The best probability for success is going to be the pass with this offense. That’s really my main point. Especially with Cincinnati this season. The Bengals run game stinks, to be quite frank. It’s a bottom 10-12 rush offense by most metrics.

[Tiger Teeth]

(11-22-2021, 02:28 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Yes, I’m serious.

Yesterday against the Raiders I was very impressed by how Zac Taylor called plays, especially late in the game.  At first Joe Mixon had issues running the ball and Joe Burrow didn’t get time to set his feet and pass accurately — but Zac stuck with the run.  After 29 passes and 38 rushes the Bengals won, 32-13.  Joe Mixon went over 100 yards on the ground alone which was impressive.

The old Zac would have kept passing.  It looks like he’s learning!

I certainly hope you're right.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-22-2021, 02:42 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I guess I’m an idiot, how is 4.1 YPC not very good? Sticking with the run is what kept the Bengals in control and sealed the game… funny how fan perspectives differ.

Nah... you're not an idiot. Three runs at that clip is 12 yards, good enough to keep the chains moving. Obviously that's way too simplistic, but if you can average that, it's a good thing.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-22-2021, 04:45 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: I get what you were saying about the run/pass ratio earlier and I appreciate the opportunity to clarify something.  I’m known on here as a defense guy who loves a run-first offense BUT if the run is NOT working I’m ALL for passing to get the job done.  Sometimes the opposing defense frustrates even the best offensive game plan — and the best coaches adjust.

Let’s go back to yesterday’s game.  At first, neither the pass nor the run was working; Joe Mixon was getting stuffed like a Thanksgiving turkey in the backfield.  Joe Burrow was pressured way too much when passing and, combined with respectable coverage by the Raiders’ secondary, passing became too risky.

When neither the pass nor the run work, the play caller has to make a decision: Which has the greatest probability of success?  Run? Pass?

If you’re Cincinnati it’s best to pick the run this year.  It’s easier for the offensive line to adjust to run blocking mode and receivers aren’t under pressure to get open.

....and WRs are blocking better in the run game lately.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-22-2021, 07:00 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Anything over 4 ypc is good. I don't really have a problem with the run game it started off slow but they got it going. To me something just seems off with the pass game. Early in the game yesterday it just seemed like we the Raiders were getting a lot of either coverage sacks or pressure due to our WRs not getting open. I still think we need to use the RBs in the passing game more especially early to help move the ball and give Burrow an easy outlet.

I agree we need to us the RB more.....but we also gotta consider how often we've needed them blocking to keep 9 from getting mauled.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-23-2021, 12:26 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: It’s probably safer to choose the run, but you’re generally going to get less returns on the run. The best probability for success is going to be the pass with this offense. That’s really my main point. Especially with Cincinnati this season. The Bengals run game stinks, to be quite frank. It’s a bottom 10-12 rush offense by most metrics.

Different opponents/weather/etc dictate different strategies at different times throughout the season. Sometimes you gotta do what you do worst in order to win. Getting into 3rd and long would be playing right into the hands of their defense's strength. They're not good against the run.... apparently worst at defending it than we are doing it. Take what they give you. With the way Burrow has been turning it over lately, it was a bit of a welcome change. You can also do many different things on offense when you have a kicker that's highly accurate from 50+. Zac has alluded to that as well.