Zac Taylor vs Marvin Lewis

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-23-2021, 01:34 PM)TJ528 Wrote: I mean prior to Marvin Lewis this team loved to hire from within and hire coaches that had been with the team previously.  Coslet, LeBeau, after Shula's failure....

So thank god they took a step away from the Cincinnati pipeline.  I mean it could've always been worse.  We could've ended up with Tom Coughlin. 

Yeah, the hire from within off losing staffs was infuriating. 

Oh what might've been if Mikey lets Tom have the control he wanted. Hell, who knows how it winds up if him and Wyche don't get into it over the same issue and he doesn't fire him as his first act as "GM". All Sammy did was go to Tampa and draft Sapp, Lynch, and Brooks.

[TJ528]

(12-23-2021, 01:39 PM)Wyche Wrote: Ah yes, the Sapp fiasco....ugh. I don't recall the specifics, but it seems we botched that one big time.

I'd put the last two years light years ahead of those guys. We only got a taste last year....Waynes missed the entire season, Reader went down early, and there wasn't much else, aside from Von Bell. The first year of Zac, we got typical, bargain bin types. Year two looked promising. This year? Holy smokes! You add Trey Hendrickson, Reader comes back and ready to play, Awuzie winds up a very solid addition, Mike Hilton, then you still have Bell balling, and the Eli Apple gamble pays off way better than I anticipated. That's just the defense. Reiff improved RT pretty substantially, and re-signing Spain was key.

My worry about going into next season is a lot of that defense is on 1 year contracts.  Our OL needs SERIOUS help....and people are going to be up for some pretty substantial raises.  

Personally, I see no way this team can keep the 3 WR together, Mixon together and sign good pieces for the OL once Burrow gets his contract extension.  So if they're going to do something....it has to be done in the next 2 years IMO.  

[TJ528]

(12-23-2021, 01:42 PM)Wyche Wrote: Yeah, the hire from within off losing staffs was infuriating. 

Oh what might've been if Mikey lets Tom have the control he wanted. Hell, who knows how it winds up if him and Wyche don't get into it over the same issue and he doesn't fire him as his first act as "GM". All Sammy did was go to Tampa and draft Sapp, Lynch, and Brooks.

I was in the military when Sam was fired and I was so pissed.  Then when we drafted David Klinger, I knew the team was going downhill quickly.  Run and shoot offenses in college NEVER meshed well with NFL offenses, well unless you played for Jerry Glanville....

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-23-2021, 01:43 PM)TJ528 Wrote: My worry about going into next season is a lot of that defense is on 1 year contracts.  Our OL needs SERIOUS help....and people are going to be up for some pretty substantial raises.  

Personally, I see no way this team can keep the 3 WR together, Mixon together and sign good pieces for the OL once Burrow gets his contract extension.  So if they're going to do something....it has to be done in the next 2 years IMO.  

Yessir, it's valid concern. I don't think Waynes sticks around. That frees up some cash....to possibly upgrade C and maybe a G. I have no idea who'll be available. Cap increases too, I believe. Maybe Carman or someone winds up being the RG we need.

I'd try to keep Larry around, Apple, and maybe BJ Hill. You might wind up losing Bates. The rest come back if the price is right.

Offensively, it's Reiff, Uzomah, and Spain as the biggest names. I might be inclined to try and keep all of them.

Those WRs....yeah, that's probably not going to be sustainable, unless we're in contention for a chip next season. Then, ya never know how guys will react to money vs hometown discounts. To your point, the next two years are very critical.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-23-2021, 01:45 PM)TJ528 Wrote: I was in the military when Sam was fired and I was so pissed.  Then when we drafted David Klinger, I knew the team was going downhill quickly.  Run and shoot offenses in college NEVER meshed well with NFL offenses, well unless you played for Jerry Glanville....

Thank you for the sacrifice, first and foremost. Same here, I was livid, both at the firing and David Klingler. He had faced VERY little competition. Don't even get me started on the day they drafted Akili.....grrr.

[Jhowdy54]

I will say this about Zac Taylor and Marvin Lewis. Against Denver we’re going into the locker room at halftime with a 3 point deficit instead of a 3 point lead. Love the way Taylor attacks even with limited time to go. Bengals were always like dead last in final 2 minutes of a half in point differential under Lewis. Could remember a couple times getting the ball with over 2 minutes with timeouts and playing it safe. Half the time other team would end up getting the ball back and scoring again.

[Shake n Blake]

(12-23-2021, 02:58 AM)J24 Wrote: He has been the defacto GM for a while now according to people in the know. The dudes had a couple of chances to leave the Bengals and he never did. (Detroit was very interested in him in the mid teens)

I'm not sure this as anything to do with this thread but John Sheean from Cincy Jungle talked about how there are way more Scouts in organization than the Bengals website claims. Thought it was interesting nugget since we're talking about the front office.

Very interesting. If that's the case, I wonder why they wouldn't promote it? Why hide that?

(12-23-2021, 11:45 AM)Tlawsonmariat82 Wrote: Zac is nowhere near Marvin;he doesn't have the resume..Marvin was the architect of arguably the greatest defense in league history..Marvin had instant success taking over a 2-14 roster;Zac's first 2 years would've gotten him fired anywhere else facts..

Agreed, for now, but the point of this thread isn't to compare Marv and Zac's resumes. Zac's only had 3 years, and his rebuild was MUCH different than Marvin's. Most of Marv's key pieces were already in place.

Chad, TJ, Warrick, Rudi, a good o-line, Justin Smith, Brian Simmons, etc. He didn't NEED as many free agents because the core was already there. He didn't need to draft a Jamarr Chase in his 3rd year because he already had him on day one.

Marv's situation was better. Thus why he won more games immediately. Zac had to gut an aging team and slowly start over.

(12-23-2021, 01:27 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: The only notable FA signings that I recall from Marvin's fist two seasons were Reggie Kelly, John Thornton, Tory James, and Bobbie Williams. Am I missing anyone?

Kevin Hardy got a big chunk of change, but disappointed. Duane Clemons. Kim Herring. A few others. He mainly reshaped the defense completely and left the offense alone because most of the pieces were already in place.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(12-23-2021, 01:54 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Same here, I was livid, both at the firing and David Klingler. He had faced VERY little competition. Don't even get me started on the day they drafted Akili.....grrr.

That day made me ill. What did the Saints offer? Nine picks! Mikey Boy should have taken that deal.

[TJ528]

(12-23-2021, 02:43 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Very interesting. If that's the case, I wonder why they wouldn't promote it? Why hide that?


Agreed, for now, but the point of this thread isn't to compare Marv and Zac's resumes. Zac's only had 3 years, and his rebuild was MUCH different than Marvin's. Most of Marv's key pieces were already in place.

Chad, TJ, Warrick, Rudi, a good o-line, Justin Smith, Brian Simmons, etc. He didn't NEED as many free agents because the core was already there. He didn't need to draft a Jamarr Chase in his 3rd year because he already had him on day one.

Marv's situation was better. Thus why he won more games immediately. Zac had to gut an aging team and slowly start over.


Kevin Hardy got a big chunk of change, but disappointed. Duane Clemons. Kim Herring. A few others. He mainly reshaped the defense completely and left the offense alone because most of the pieces were already in place.

I truly believe this comes back to Mike Brown.  Mike Brown is the defacto GM of this team in title.  

Until Mike passes he'll retain the title of President and GM of the Cincinnati Bengals.  That will not change.  

Duke Tobin has control of players and who comes to this team because you can see a strategy behind it.  

Mike never knew what free agency was nor had a clue how to use it. 

Maybe one day when Mike passes Katie will give that title to a person who deserves it. 

[Tlawsonmariat82]

I don't have anything against zac I wish him all the success in the world obviously;but just stating facts here with his lack of a resume and his horrible first 2 seasons he's lucky he kept his job...The lions fired Jim Caldwell after making the playoffs in all 3 seasons, I've seen coaches canned for far less..I personally think we made the right decision to keep him on,but zac the play caller should be over IMO..

[Interceptor]

(12-23-2021, 11:45 AM)Tlawsonmariat82 Wrote: Marvin was the architect of arguably the greatest defense in league history..

Yeah, but we are talking about his time with the Bengals.

[TJ528]

(12-23-2021, 03:47 PM)Interceptor Wrote: Yeah, but we are talking about his time with the Bengals.

And he's the all time winningest coach in Bengals history, that wasn't the defensive coordinator of the Bengals. 

However, Marvin was hired because he was a Super Bowl winning DC of one of the best defense in NFL history. 

Currently, Zac is the OC of this current team so he's the head coach and OC so he deserves any flack he receives about this teams offensive direction.  

[C0de_M0nkey]

(12-23-2021, 03:43 PM)Tlawsonmariat82 Wrote: I don't have anything against zac I wish him all the success in the world obviously;but just stating facts here with his lack of a resume and his horrible first 2 seasons he's lucky he kept his job...The lions fired Jim Caldwell after making the playoffs in all 3 seasons, I've seen coaches canned for far less..I personally think we made the right decision to keep him on,but zac the play caller should be over IMO..

The Lions have been a disaster since they fired Caldwell

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-22-2021, 08:58 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: Zac, Lou and staff deserve a ton of credit for the good FA signing and drafting. You don’t hit on this many guys this quickly without the coaches being very involved in the selection process, knowing what they want and what they want to do. Duke definitely deserves credit as well and has done a great job adjusting to new coaches with different systems and traits they look for in new players.

Awuzie was bashed in Dallas. Apple was full on bust. Giants gave us Hill for Billy Price. Hendrickson was looked at as a one year wonder, benefiting off the other good linemen he played with. Von Bell has quietly been a great pickup. Reader and Larry have not disappointed. Spain is another steal. Hitting on this many FA’s is not common. Even Billy B misses on more than we have these last few years.

Burrow and Chase have looked like studs since day one (can’t say the same for a lot of first round QB’s). Wilson great value, franchise kicker in McPherson, etc.

Our backup LB’s like Bachie and Bailey look better when forced into action than our starting LB’s have in years.

Cannot disagree with any of this, great post. Made me feel better about keeping Zac and Lou around even if we don't make the
Playoffs. It definitely depends on how it goes from here on out though, before the season I said if Zac can't make the Playoffs and
win a game we need to move on, put up or shut up time. Still feel the same, but I do feel better about keeping him around now 
cause of the things you mentioned along with the added assistant coaches in Pollack, Hobby, Golden and Walters who have been
very good.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-22-2021, 09:16 PM)jason Wrote: Fair enough... But you also don't hit on many FA signings when you only get a coupla over the hill, and bargain bin free agents to work with. No objective observer can claim that Marvin ever got this much help in free agency.

This is very true as well. The FO has really helped out Zac and company WAY more than Marv EVER was helped out in FA.

[BengalYankee]

 

[Interceptor]

(12-23-2021, 04:15 PM)TJ528 Wrote: And he's the all time winningest coach in Bengals history, that wasn't the defensive coordinator of the Bengals. 
 

As he should be. He has the same amount of years coaching the Bengals as Paul Brown and Sam Wyche put together. His winning percentage is 3rd, behind Forrest Gregg and Bill Johnson. Forrest Gregg was The Man.

I think Marv overstayed his welcome after 8 years. JMHO 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-23-2021, 06:14 PM)Interceptor Wrote: As he should be. He has the same amount of years coaching the Bengals as Paul Brown and Sam Wyche put together. His winning percentage is 3rd, behind Forrest Gregg and Bill Johnson. Forrest Gregg was The Man.

I think Marv overstayed his welcome after 8 years. JMHO 

I am of the same opinion.

[Shake n Blake]

(12-23-2021, 06:14 PM)Interceptor Wrote: As he should be. He has the same amount of years coaching the Bengals as Paul Brown and Sam Wyche put together. His winning percentage is 3rd, behind Forrest Gregg and Bill Johnson. Forrest Gregg was The Man.

I think Marv overstayed his welcome after 8 years. JMHO 

I don't think a lot of people realize how long 16 years is, in the NFL.

Most of the coaches who spent that long with one team are legendary. Due to his longevity, Marv holds some ugly records, like longest tenure without a playoff win. Heck, I'm pretty sure he's the longest tenured coach to not reach a Super Bowl.

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-23-2021, 06:14 PM)Interceptor Wrote: As he should be. He has the same amount of years coaching the Bengals as Paul Brown and Sam Wyche put together. His winning percentage is 3rd, behind Forrest Gregg and Bill Johnson. Forrest Gregg was The Man.

I think Marv overstayed his welcome after 8 years. JMHO 

Marvin wouldn't have survived 2010 on 95% of NFL teams.