Changing the Culture Matters

[fredtoast]

(02-03-2022, 01:15 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Zac, Duke, and Mike make decisions on FA and the draft together. They present their case and if Duke and Zac disagree which is seldom then Mike breaks the tie. But extensions? Zac has little input. Most coaches don’t. You know that.

Actually I don't know how much input Zac has on contract extensions.  Where did you get this information?
 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-03-2022, 01:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I can find clips of players who supported their coaches even when they were horrible.  What do you say about all the Bengals who said Marvin was a greta coach?

Did Anderson happen to mention why Gregg was fired just two years later after a losing season?  Did he explain how the "culture" disappeared so quickly while the exact same coach was still there?

Well, Marvin WAS a good coach, until his vision became stale.

He wasn't asked that question. He was asked what he thought about the current shift and equated it to what Gregg did when he arrived. I'm not old enough to remember the details of that particular team. I do remember that every player that was ever asked about the 88 team mentioned the way Sam shook up the training camp roommates and how that led to a family *culture* within the locker room. 

Things change, players retire, get hurt, move on, get older and lose a step while still playing, etc. I'm sure that plays a part in losing seasons, as well as the schedule getting tougher as a result of going to a Super Bowl. Hell, this current team might have a bit worse record next year due to their tougher schedule. It doesn't mean that a culture change still didn't contribute to their success.

[Sled21]

(02-03-2022, 01:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Exactly my point.

You had to go back 20 years to find an example.  Tom Brady is probably the most extreme "outlier" in NFL history.

He's just the most obvious, but there is a whole slew of great QB's who only got their starts due to injury. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-03-2022, 01:06 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Yep

This is just speculation but I believe AJ Green, Carlos Dunlap and others had little to no desire to be on this team after ML left.

I think that may be part of it, and maybe they just didn't want to go through a rebuild at their age.

[Sled21]

(02-03-2022, 01:17 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Can't blame Dunlap.  In 2019 he got 9 sacks, 13 TFL, and 21 QB hits and the coaches responded by wanting to get rid of him because he "did not fit their system".

Why would any player want to stay where he was not wanted?

Wrong. Dunlap fit the system, he just refused to play in it. He could do exactly what Hubbard is doing, he just didn't want to. I don't know why you go out of your way to defend that.

[Au165]

(02-03-2022, 01:26 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Wrong. Dunlap fit the system, he just refused to play in it. He could do exactly what Hubbard is doing, he just didn't want to. I don't know why you go out of your way to defend that.

Because he is, and always has been, a contrarian. 

[*jason*]

(02-03-2022, 09:00 AM)Au165 Wrote: Yea, I definitely wanted Young early in the process because of the issues at O line. By the end of Burrows season at LSU though I had turned to Burrow and we will figure it out haha. Sometimes a guy just transcends normal logic.

Same here... About half way through the national championship game it became very obvious we had to take Burrow though.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-03-2022, 01:40 PM)jason Wrote: Same here... About half way through the national championship game it became very obvious we had to take Burrow though.

That Championship game cemented it for me as well. 

[*bengalfan74*]

(02-03-2022, 01:17 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Can't blame Dunlap.  In 2019 he got 9 sacks, 13 TFL, and 21 QB hits and the coaches responded by wanting to get rid of him because he "did not fit their system".

Why would any player want to stay where he was not wanted?

It's not about blame Fred.

[Soonerpeace]

(02-03-2022, 12:43 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Zac doesn’t extend anybody. Mike Brown and Duke do. Does Zac have a say? Sure. Zac started Finley because he needed to find out what he had. They knew they were moving on from Andy which is now obvious.

(02-03-2022, 01:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually I don't know how much input Zac has on contract extensions.  Where did you get this information?
 

I already said he doesn’t. I’m sure he’s asked his thoughts. Some of my information I know to be true because my source can’t be disputed. But certainly most is my opinion. Zac said this week that he knew nothing about Miami’s trade offer. But his impact on the draft and FA shows things are different since he arrived.

[fredtoast]

(02-03-2022, 01:26 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Wrong. Dunlap fit the system, he just refused to play in it. 

He did not refuse to play in it.  He was benched.

Cincinnati Bengals: Geno Atkins, Carlos Dunlap frustrated with roles

Geno Atkins and Carlos Dunlap, two patriarchs on the Cincinnati Bengals’ defense, are being phased out of the team’s defensive game plan.

According multiple sources, Atkins and Dunlap are frustrated with their lack of playing time. Atkins and Dunlap are miffed by the team’s defensive philosophy and approach. They have basically been demoted to third-down specialists.


Sources told The Enquirer, the Bengals coaching staff approached Dunlap and Atkins and said their limited role is “what’s best for the team” going forward. Multiple players inside the locker room are wondering why Dunlap and Atkins have been relegated to situational players.





Against the Eagles he played 75 snaps and had a fantastic game...9 SOLO tackles, a tipped pass, a QB hit, and a tackle for loss.

Then the next week he played just 51 snaps.  Then the next week 29, then 28 the week after that, and finally just 12 snaps against Cleveland.

[Soonerpeace]

(02-03-2022, 01:26 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Wrong. Dunlap fit the system, he just refused to play in it. He could do exactly what Hubbard is doing, he just didn't want to. I don't know why you go out of your way to defend that.

He defends it because his loyalty is tied to the old players and Marvin. You can tell Fred’s just like Dunlap, A J Green, and Shaq Lawson. Marvin is a great person and was well thought of by the players. It natural for some veterans to not receive the change well. Hubbard, Boyd, and Uzomah did and are reaping the rewards of buying in. And I think FredToast finally said something I finally agreed with and that all this culture talk doesn’t transcend without winning. You have to walk the walk. And Taylor has to get this team to be a contender next year to keep his newly obtained reputation.

[sandwedge]

(02-03-2022, 01:17 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Can't blame Dunlap.  In 2019 he got 9 sacks, 13 TFL, and 21 QB hits and the coaches responded by wanting to get rid of him because he "did not fit their system".

Why would any player want to stay where he was not wanted?

I don't know, maybe he was being held accountable for this lack of effort 100% of the game and his child like actions in the locker room? I can't understand how someone doesn't understand the culture changes that have been made......

[gman657]

(02-03-2022, 02:28 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I was very glad we got Burrow.  I just made fun of the sycophants who were claiming he didn't need an O-line because he could make plays outside the pocket, and he didn't need great WRs because he could "throw them open", and he was going to cure all of the team's problems by "holding players accountable".  Joe was not one of those QBs who needed talent around him because he could just make everyone around him better.

Well it ended up that no matter how much Burrow held AJ Green accountable he still sucked.  And every draft discussion was a shouting match between the people who said Joe could not survive without a better O-line and the people who said he would never be a great passer without a better WR or TE.

Just because you say thinks it doesn’t make it fact. You have spent nearly 2 years now completely unable to comprehend the intangibles that burrow brings. If you cant put your very selective stats to something then you don’t understand it. Then you just make claims that you always held a certain opinion even though all the evidence is to the contrary

[gman657]

(02-03-2022, 02:16 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I don't know, maybe he was being held accountable for this lack of effort 100% of the game and his child like actions in the locker room? I can't understand how someone doesn't understand the culture changes that have been made......

Fred’s rainman statistics based Schtick is unable to comprehend things like culture, leadership team spirit and leadership as things that can raise a team’s performance.

The very fact we have burrow is why we have DJ reader is a clear example of difference he has made.

[fredtoast]

(02-03-2022, 02:16 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I don't know, maybe he was being held accountable for this lack of effort 100% of the game and his child like actions in the locker room?

The only "childlike action" was benching Dunlap in favor of Armani Bledsoe.

Since starting in front of Dunlap Bledsoe has accumulated zero sacks, zero TFL, and zero QB hits..

Since being traded by the Bengals Dunlap has accumulated 13.5 sacks, 14 TFL, and 28 QB hits.

[gman657]

(02-03-2022, 02:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: He did not refuse to play in it.  He was benched.

Cincinnati Bengals: Geno Atkins, Carlos Dunlap frustrated with roles

Geno Atkins and Carlos Dunlap, two patriarchs on the Cincinnati Bengals’ defense, are being phased out of the team’s defensive game plan.

According multiple sources, Atkins and Dunlap are frustrated with their lack of playing time. Atkins and Dunlap are miffed by the team’s defensive philosophy and approach. They have basically been demoted to third-down specialists.


Sources told The Enquirer, the Bengals coaching staff approached Dunlap and Atkins and said their limited role is “what’s best for the team” going forward. Multiple players inside the locker room are wondering why Dunlap and Atkins have been relegated to situational players.





Against the Eagles he played 75 snaps and had a fantastic game...9 SOLO tackles, a tipped pass, a QB hit, and a tackle for loss.

Then the next week he played just 51 snaps.  Then the next week 29, then 28 the week after that, and finally just 12 snaps against Cleveland.

Last week you were saying that adenji starts because of what the coaches see in practice that we don’t see. Now you are questioning the coaches decision on their line up decisions. Make your mind up

[*rfaulk34*]

(02-02-2022, 04:22 PM)Au165 Wrote: Even the people we bought though...they weren't big name players they were guys from winning organizations who were "lunch pale" selfless players. It's kind of my point, everything we did had an underlying cultural impact. 

That's the salient point right there. They went out looking for good players that weren't going to break the bank, but they wanted a specific type of guy. 

It's easy with hindsight for someone to say "oh, they're playing well on defense because they spent so much...". They found guys that were willing and wanting to do things like go through OTAs when everyone else was skipping them. They found guys that wanted to do things apart from football to build relationships, which in turn makes the locker room better and keeps them together during the rough parts of games. 

Looking back, everything was done with a specific plan and purpose. 

Long time fans have a lot of scabs that get ripped off easily but the orgainization and coaching staff stuck to the plan through the tough times and believed that their process would work out and they were right. 

[fredtoast]

(02-03-2022, 02:22 PM)gman657 Wrote: Fred’s rainman statistics based Schtick is unable to comprehend things like culture, leadership team spirit and leadership as things that can raise a team’s performance.

Last year culture, team spirit, and Armani Bledsoe got us 4 wins.

And where exactly is that brilliant D-line coach Nick Eason who decided to bench Dunlap?

Big Los appears to have been correct.

[fredtoast]

(02-03-2022, 02:24 PM)gman657 Wrote: Last week you were saying that adenji starts because of what the coaches see in practice that we don’t see. Now you are questioning the coaches decision on their line up decisions. Make your mind up

It is really hard for me to judge individual offensive linemen.  Too much depends on what the players assignment is.

With D-line it was pretty clear that Dunlap was better than Armani Bledsoe.  Bledsoe never did shit.

Bengals pretty much admitted they were wrong when they replaced the D-line coach that decided to bench Dunlap.