There are only like two players left from the Marvin Lewis era...

[casear2727]

(02-03-2022, 02:42 PM)fredtoast Wrote: We have drafted ONE solid olineman in the past 10 years.  We cant have misses like this, not to mention 3 #1 busts in 4 years.

Hopefully we hit home runs on the oline this offseason in FA like we did with the defense. And please draft a decent contributor.





Even good teams miss on first round picks sometimes, but the Bengals went from a string of the worst luck with first round picks in the history of the league to taking back-to-back All Pro type players in Burrow and Chase.

Look at what we had gotten out of first round picks in the last 6 years of Marvins reign.

13-Eifert....Elite talent, but only one full season at elite level
14-Dennard....Not bad, but again only one full season of top play in 6 years
15-Ogbuehi....Total disaster.  Sometimes you "miss" on a first round pick because he just becomes an average starter.  Ogbuehi could not even do that.
16-WJ3.....Really good player early in career.  But only played 16 games once in 5 years.
17-Ross......See "Ogbuehi"
18-Price......See "Ross"


Combine those picks with the fact that our front office would not sign top free agents to fill the holes left by missed first round picks and the team was doomed.

[casear2727]

(02-03-2022, 09:48 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Many players left who were here with Marvin, as others have noted.

Taylor doesn't do the drafting, but he helps just as Marvin did. The coaches didn't want Ross, but the front office did. I'd also like to point out that the team has had 3 picks in the top 11 in Taylor's 3 seasons. Marvin only had 5 picks in the top 11 over his 18 years. Of course, Marvin didn't have pick 32 either. LOL

There have been many excellent draft picks over the past 20 years.

We'll be picking last in the each round this year. The draft changes for a team in that position.

 

1 solid olineman in the last 10 years is inexcusable.  

[fredtoast]

(02-04-2022, 12:35 PM)casear2727 Wrote: 1 solid olineman in the last 10 years is inexcusable.  

Technically Zeitler was in the last 10 years.

And I think it is too early to judge the guys we drafted this year.

But overall, yeah, we have sucked at drafting O-linemen for pretty much an entire decade.  That is going to kill any team.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(02-04-2022, 12:42 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Technically Zeitler was in the last 10 years.

And I think it is too early to judge the guys we drafted this year.

But overall, yeah, we have sucked a drafting O-linemen for pretty much an entire decade.  That is going to kill any team.

I heard somewhere that Carman was a Brown/Alexander pick, and not the guy Pollack wanted. If true, that needs to stop. Plus the Turner misadventure set us back. 

However, Jonah was good (not great) in his first full year. Spain was good. Hopkins good in pass protection when healthy. Reiff decent at RT. RG is a major issue, as is RT going forward. But there isn't a stud in that line. 

If Penning falls to us, we take him. Otherwise, I think Raimann (OT) or Johnson (IOL) are the pick. 

[fredtoast]

(02-04-2022, 01:02 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: I heard somewhere that Carman was a Brown/Alexander pick, and not the guy Pollack wanted. 

Alexander?

Link?

[TecmoBengals]

(02-04-2022, 01:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Alexander?

Link?

People are mostly speculating Alexander recommended Carman to Brown.

From https://www.bengals.com/team/players-roster/jackson-carman/:

Quote:Counts former Bengals OT Willie Anderson as one of his mentors, and worked out with both Anderson and former Bengals offensive line coach Paul Alexander prior to the draft.

You need to brush up on your Google skills instead of the "Link?" posts.

[fredtoast]

(02-04-2022, 01:40 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: People are mostly speculating Alexander recommended Carman to Brown.

But Alexander liked a bunch of O-linemen that we did not draft.

So basically you are saying that there is no evidence at all that Alexander had any influence on the Bengals selecting Jackson Carman

(02-04-2022, 01:40 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: You need to brush up on your Google skills instead of the "Link?" posts.

My Google skills are fine.  I used them and they proved that there is no evidence that Paul Alexander had any influence on the Bengals taking Jackson Carman.  Carman was one of several players Alexander liked and we did not draft these other players.

[TecmoBengals]

(02-04-2022, 02:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But Alexander liked a bunch of O-linemen that we did not draft.

So basically you are saying that there is no evidence at all that Alexander had any influence on the Bengals selecting Jackson Carman




My Google skills are fine.  I used them and they proved that there is no evidence that Paul Alexander had any influence on the Bengals taking Jackson Carman.  Carman was one of several players Alexander liked and we did not draft these other players.

[fredtoast]

(02-04-2022, 02:44 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote:

Typical response I get when someone can't actually disagree with the facts I lay out.

They run and hide behind some personal attack.

[Shake n Blake]

(02-04-2022, 12:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Elite QBs don't make players better with magical auras or anything like that.  It is all about their play on the field.

Receivers... too obvious to explain.

Running backs....Better passing game forces safeties deep and loosens up running game.  Also teams in the lead run the ball more.

O-line...Obviously a QB who makes quicker reads and gets rid of the ball faster can make an O-line look much better.  But also playing with a lead forces opposing defenders to respect the run instead of just pinning back their ears and rushing the passer

D-line...Playing with the lead allows them to pin back their ears and rush the passer more than respecting the run.

DBs.... Opposing QBs playing from behind have to take more chances and force more bad passes.


QB is by far the single most important position on the team.  Upgrading that position increases a teams ability to win.  And when a team is winning and playing with the lead more often it makes EVERY player look better.

I don't disagree with any of this. It's common sense. That said, it's quite easy to see when you have good/great players on your team, and when you don't. Heck, most of our guys have had great personal success without Burrow.

That's not me saying Burrow doesn't make everyone better.

That's me saying they should be recognized for their own greatness. Trey Hendrickson, DJ Reader, Joe Mixon, Jamar Chase, Tee Higgins, Tyler Boyd, Jessie Bates, Evan McPherson, etc are good players with or without Burrow.

Would we be where we are without Joey B? Of course not.
Would we be here without this cast around Joey B? Nope.

It's not one dude. He's the MVP. The straw that stirs the drink. But he's not the only reason we're here. If he was, I guess we should've taken Penei to protect him, because he really doesn't need anyone else. Just make sure he's healthy, and It's championships for days, apparently.

(02-04-2022, 12:33 PM)Sled21 Wrote: A lot don't. That's why you see frustrated QB's demanding trades. See Aaron Rodgers for example.

That's why I said most, Sled. There's a reason why that's such a big storyline with Rodgers. They should listen to his input, yet they don't.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(02-04-2022, 12:33 PM)Sled21 Wrote: A lot don't. That's why you see frustrated QB's demanding trades. See Aaron Rodgers for example.

Yep. That tweet I posted specifically mentioned how often you see QB’s getting frustrated. Rodgers, Wilson, Brady at the end in NE, etc.

[MasonDT70]

(02-04-2022, 04:38 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: That's why I said most, Sled. There's a reason why that's such a big storyline with Rodgers. They should listen to his input, yet they don't.

Should Rodgers, or any qb have roster power? I get if it's a choice between let's say a few different wrs and let your qb be the deciding factor on something like that, but I wouldn't personally want my qb saying we have to go sign this lb or another player just because they think so. 

[Shake n Blake]

(02-04-2022, 05:11 PM)MasonDT70 Wrote: Should Rodgers, or any qb have roster power? I get if it's a choice between let's say a few different wrs and let your qb be the deciding factor on something like that, but I wouldn't personally want my qb saying we have to go sign this lb or another player just because they think so. 

Well I got flamed for saying "no" to this question earlier this year.

I do think QBs should be asked for their opinion on offensive roster choices. Certainly not on the defensive side though, and I also think their opinion shouldn't be above everyone else's. It should just be taken into consideration.

[TecmoBengals]

(02-04-2022, 03:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Typical response I get when someone can't actually disagree with the facts I lay out.

They run and hide behind some personal attack.

[MasonDT70]

(02-04-2022, 05:22 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Well I got flamed for saying "no" to this question earlier this year.

I do think QBs should be asked for their opinion on offensive roster choices. Certainly not on the defensive side though, and I also think their opinion shouldn't be above everyone else's. It should just be taken into consideration.

We're in agreement there. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(02-04-2022, 03:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Typical response I get when someone can't actually disagree with the facts I lay out.

They run and hide behind some personal attack.

If you only understood how alike you and Brad are. 


Don't tell Brad i said that!

[*rfaulk34*]

(02-04-2022, 02:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But Alexander liked a bunch of O-linemen that we did not draft.

So basically you are saying that there is no evidence at all that Alexander had any influence on the Bengals selecting Jackson Carman




My Google skills are fine.  I used them and they proved that there is no evidence that Paul Alexander had any influence on the Bengals taking Jackson Carman.  Carman was one of several players Alexander liked and we did not draft these other players.

You may not remember that there were more than a few posts from people that were concerned that Alexander might have some influence on MB and cause him to step in and make picks. 

IC85 framed his post as more of a fact that it happened, or that he "read it somewhere", which was here on these boards.

[*rfaulk34*]

(02-04-2022, 05:11 PM)MasonDT70 Wrote: Should Rodgers, or any qb have roster power? I get if it's a choice between let's say a few different wrs and let your qb be the deciding factor on something like that, but I wouldn't personally want my qb saying we have to go sign this lb or another player just because they think so. 

Power? No. An opinion? Certainly. They're the guy out there on the field directing the play. A good GM should be willing to listen to them with the knowledge that their opinion is important but the final say does go to the FO. 

[fredtoast]

Even if the team gives zero weight to the QBs opinion they should at least go through the motions of asking his opinion.

But can you imagine the egos of some of these QBs, coaches, and front office guy? I am sure it gets touchy if a player really starts trying to force his opinion on the team.

[casear2727]

(02-04-2022, 12:42 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Technically Zeitler was in the last 10 years.

And I think it is too early to judge the guys we drafted this year.

But overall, yeah, we have sucked at drafting O-linemen for pretty much an entire decade.  That is going to kill any team.

I guess Zeit barely makes it. Carmen coming into camp out of shape is a huge red flag. The fact he couldnt crack this lineup until now is very disheartening.  Cosmi was still on the board as were others.

If MB was involved he needs to get the hell out of the way. He does approve each draft pick, which is stupid for an 86 year old imbecile with his record.