Tyler Boyd

[Bengalbug]

(02-15-2022, 06:29 PM)casear2727 Wrote: You make a valid point. If we had a decent oline it would be easier to accept I guess, but there is a reason teams dont have $10m injury insurance guys. 

Tell me this:  In the SB, if we had a quality RG instead of Adeniji, but Trent Taylor was our slot instead of Boyd, are we better or worse vs the Rams?

I don’t see why we can’t have Boyd, and a good OL. It’s not like we are paying top dollar to either of our top WRs. As a group, I bet we are somewhere in the 20s as far as highest investment in WRs.

[Bengalbug]

(02-15-2022, 06:33 PM)jj22 Wrote: I think we are better given Boyd's production. 

I'd like to have a better pass catching TE (no offense to CJ, or use one more) with 2 big time receivers. That would make me feel better about a plug and play 3rd wideout option. 

Boyd would be better with burrow getting more protection. If Joey could
Go through his progressions, Tyler would eat over the middle. Obviously chase and Higgins are the dudes in this offense, by the time
Burrow moves onto Boyd, he was in his back.

[casear2727]

(02-15-2022, 06:33 PM)jj22 Wrote: I think we are better given Boyd's production. 

I'd like to have a better pass catching TE (no offense to CJ, or use one more) with 2 big time receivers. That would make me feel better about a plug and play 3rd wideout option. 

We are also better blocking on those short yardage plays with an upgrade RG.

[casear2727]

(02-15-2022, 06:36 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Boyd would be better with burrow getting more protection.  If Joey could
Go through his progressions, Tyler would eat over the middle.  Obviously chase and Higgins are the dudes in this offense, by the time
Burrow moves onto Boyd, he was in his back.

That is the point, we must upgrade along the line with real talent, any slot would be good with Joe having time along with Chase and Tee running mid to deep routes. 

Overpaying any position from now on should be corrected immediately. 

[casear2727]

(02-15-2022, 06:33 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: I don’t see why we can’t have Boyd, and a good OL.  It’s not like we are paying top dollar to either of our top WRs.  As a group, I bet we are somewhere in the 20s as far as highest investment in WRs.

Where do we rank on oline investment?

[*michaelsean*]

(02-15-2022, 05:43 PM)LSUfaninTN Wrote: Need a new coach for that. People here are blaming refs but won’t blame their own head coach. He lost that game towards the end. 

Some people are blaming refs, but most know what we saw, and where the real blame lies. 

[Bengalstripes9]

(02-15-2022, 05:43 PM)LSUfaninTN Wrote: Need a new coach for that. People here are blaming refs but won’t blame their own head coach. He lost that game towards the end. 

Coaches can improve. They can learn if willing. His job will be made a lot easier with a better offensive line as well. 

I'm still not sold that Zac is or will ever be an elite level coach. But I do think he can be a good coach. Like it or not, he will be our coach for a long time.

I think we could have won the game if Zac had better answers for what the defense was doing. We could have done more rollouts and screens. More quick slants. He could have called better plays on 3rd and 4th downs. He could have not went for it on the 1st 4th down. But when it comes down to it, the offensive line lost us the game. We can win with Taylor if we improve the line.

The Rams played well on the perimeter at the line of scrimmage. It was hard to get past the line of scrimmage on a quick pass to that area. It seemed like they were trying to take away quick plays and force us to go deeper--betting that our line wouldn't hold up long enough. They were right. Time to get serious about the offensive line so teams cant do that to us.

[M.W.]

(02-14-2022, 12:44 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Boyd's money isn't really an issue for now. His contract is up (and he'll be 30) when Chase is eligible for an extension, so they'll just move on from Boyd then.

You won't be able to find anyone as good as him for anywhere near his contract if you get rid of him. Plus then you're just 1 injury away from having only 1 good WR.

Keep Boyd. If you're going to trade anyone, trade Mixon. Only save $3.2m in cap space in 2022, but you save $13m in 2023 when Burrow will be getting an extension. No need for a $13m RB, that's just a bad allocation of resources.

Good idea, love Mixon but I would never pay out $13m for a RB.  Especially when you are a pass happy team!

[*Go Cards*]

Want to do whatever it takes to get O-line fixed, but agree with others that it can be done without subtracting any solid players. In another year or so this will change, but not presently.

Many say the obvious that Tyler only had 4 catches a game this season. But as saying before, he has been a thousand yard receiver before and offers great depth at the price he is paid. Which is not that high for a WR.

Anyway if you replace a guy who never dropped a ball the entire season until having merely one drop in SB then production will fall.

Because his replacement is not going to catch 100% of the balls thrown his way and may go down to 2 maybe 3 catches a game instead of the 4 TB brings to the table now without being able to step into #2 WR role when needed as well as Tyler.

If Im only going to throw a WR's way only 4 times a game then would want having one who catches all 4 passes thrown.

Love Boyd but do think he will be a cap casualty in a few years when he needs re-signed. Will live with whatever the team does here, but would like to keep Tyler and if forced to move on would want to trade for draft pick as opposed to trading for player or releasing him outright.

[casear2727]

(02-15-2022, 11:28 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Want to do whatever it takes to get O-line fixed, but agree with others that it can be done without subtracting any solid players. In another year or so this will change, but not presently.

Many say the obvious that Tyler only had 4 catches a game this season. But as saying before, he has been a thousand yard receiver before and offers great depth at the price he is paid. Which is not that high for a WR.

Anyway if you replace a guy who never dropped a ball the entire season until having merely one drop in SB then production will fall.

Because his replacement is not going to catch 100% of the balls thrown his way and may go down to 2 maybe 3 catches a game instead of the 4 TB brings to the table now without being able to step into #2 WR role when needed as well as Tyler.

If Im only going to throw a WR's way only 4 times a game then would want having one who catches all 4 passes thrown.  

Love Boyd but do think he will be a cap casualty in a few years when he needs re-signed. Will live with whatever the team does here, but would like to keep Tyler and if forced to move on would want to trade for draft pick as opposed to trading for player or releasing him outright.

Solid points.  But I dont think we can go by how talented Tyler is or his production in previous seasons.  I am simply looking at the value of his position in this offense.

$10M a year is a lot of money. That is a high quality Center or Guard.  Had they known Chase's impact they should have made the move this year.


Let me ask you your opinion on which option you would choose vs the Rams in the SB.

A). Our team the way it was.

B).  Our Team with a talented Right Guard instead of Adeniji but Trent Taylor playing slot.

[Bilbo Saggins]

$10 million for ~800 yards annually doesn't seem out of whack with recent WR contracts.

TY Hilton made $10 million last year. If the past three years he's put up 331, 762, and 501 yards per year.

Curtis Samuel just signed a 3 year, $34.5 million contract. Past three years he's put up 27, 851, and 627 yards with 851 being the most that he's produced in a single season. 

Marvin Jones signed for two years $14.5 million. Yards past 3 years: 832, 978, 779 but he's older. 


Value doesn't seem to be a problem. 


Is the WR depth good enough to cover for an injury to Higgins or Chase if they don't have Boyd? I get the whole Jimmy Johnson philosophy of not falling in love with your players, not overpaying guys, this and that. To deal him would mean replacing a WR who has chemistry with your QB with a total question mark. 

[casear2727]

(02-16-2022, 12:44 AM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: $10 million for ~800 yards annually doesn't seem out of whack with recent WR contracts.

TY Hilton made $10 million last year. If the past three years he's put up 331, 762, and 501 yards per year.

Curtis Samuel just signed a 3 year, $34.5 million contract. Past three years he's put up 27, 851, and 627 yards with 851 being the most that he's produced in a single season. 

Marvin Jones signed for two years $14.5 million. Yards past 3 years: 832, 978, 779 but he's older. 


Value doesn't seem to be a problem. 


Is the WR depth good enough to cover for an injury to Higgins or Chase if they don't have Boyd? I get the whole Jimmy Johnson philosophy of not falling in love with your players, not overpaying guys, this and that. To deal him would mean replacing a WR who has chemistry with your QB with a total question mark. 

That is a very good argument.

My rebuttal would be that Im not sure that Washington, Jaguars and Colts are good examples as we are in such a different position.

Colts and Jags only gave up 32 sacks, Wash 43.  

We must revamp 3/5ths, and some say 4/5ths of our oline.  If we only gave up 32 sacks, I still wouldnt want a slot not named Kupp or Hill making an 8 digit annual salary but it would be easier to swallow.

I know we have cap space, but I would think the FO would prefer to front-load these new FAs so they dont cause issues over the 2-3 years when all of our stars not named Bates are up for extensions.  Not to mention the entire defense over that time.

I truly believe this offense will roll with an excellent line - Joe, Chase, Tee & Mixon.  We need to identify players at Slot and TE that are cheap and produce above their pay level in order to keep our stars, oline and defense.

I also truly believe that if we used Bates 10M on a very good RG vs the Rams leaving us with Trent Taylor at the slot we win that game handily.  10M is the magic number for excellent Centers and Guards.

You could definitely be right, Im not saying Im an expert by any means.

[Housh]

(02-15-2022, 06:33 PM)jj22 Wrote: I think we are better given Boyd's production. 

I'd like to have a better pass catching TE (no offense to CJ, or use one more) with 2 big time receivers. That would make me feel better about a plug and play 3rd wideout option. 

Dude we’ve been needing to run 2TE sets since the Carson Palmer days. With how Burrow likes to read plays presnap we absolutely need another big TE with hands that can box out a defender for a catch. Ppl throwing Gronks name around and i actually love him as our TE1. Burrow is gonna go empty backfield and i think our 3 WRs plus Uzomah and Gronk would be the best empty backfield set in football. The only issue is Gronk is gonna ask for a lot, even if it’s just 1 year.

[Housh]

You don’t let a guy go whose still a top 3 slot WR in the league.

The idea is cementing our holes. Not taking bricks from another position to fill the hole cause then all you did was create another hole. Without Tee and Boyd teams are just going to super bracket Chase and that will create the same effect as having a bad o line because no one will have the talent to get open and defenses will still get shots at Burrow.


If you gonna take money from another position to fill in the line it needs to be linebacker, running back, or safety. Without 3 high end WRs Joe would’ve been even worse off

[Bengalfan4life27c]

We dont beat Raiders in wildcard without Boyd and a quality lineman. Only way we beat Rams is with a new C and RG you cant get 2 quality lineman for Boyd's contract. Rams don't make SB without OBJ. We need more depth at receiver not less ideally we find another guy in the 3rd

[casear2727]

(02-16-2022, 12:39 PM)Housh Wrote: You don’t let a guy go whose still a top 3 slot WR in the league.

The idea is cementing our holes. Not taking bricks from another position to fill the hole cause then all you did was create another hole. Without Tee and Boyd teams are just going to super bracket Chase and that will create the same effect as having a bad o line because no one will have the talent to get open and defenses will still get shots at Burrow.


If you gonna take money from another position to fill in the line it needs to be linebacker, running back, or safety. Without 3 high end WRs Joe would’ve been even worse off

This is no knock on Tyler or his ability, simply his position.

No one said anything about Tee.  He and Chase are great, add a very solid oline and the slot doesnt have to be a big name.

$10M yr pays for an excellent Guard or Center.  I think we would had been a better team this year and won that SB if we had a tier one Guard instead of Adeniji and Trent Taylor at slot.

We have literally 4 holes to fill on the line, 2 desperately.  It seems illogical to pay WR3 $10M with this oline issue.

And once Joe and Chase extend, I think you are right - we cannot pay a running back $13M.  

My priorities salary wise on offense: QB, WR1, Oline, WR2, RB, TE, Slot in that order.

[Shake n Blake]

(02-15-2022, 06:12 AM)casear2727 Wrote: This seems to be an emotional fan response. We can all love TB, that doesnt mean his salary makes sense when we have very bad linemen. Patriots fans loved all the guys Belicheck cut in order to go to multiple Super Bowls.  How many WR3 do you think NE had making $10m a year?

This is a very hard business because of cases like TB.  His priority has changed which results in over paying for less production.  I would also point out that Tee and Chase no longer need a mentor like TB. They both have time in the league and now Super Bowl experience. They have passed TB on the priority list.  These 2 and Burrow are all bigger stars and there is only one football to go around. With our wideouts and running back we simply do not value the slot as much as the Chiefs or Rams, and Boyd isnt Hill or Kupp.

Fans like you would hate me as a GM, but I would make sure that dollars are allocated to our top priorities:
#1 Protecting Burrow. Oline, oline, oline 
#2 Providing Weapons for Burrow. WR1, WR 2, RB, TE, and WR3/Slot in that order.
#3 Defense

And with our roster I would not let RB, TE or WR3/Slot prevent the defense from getting it's needed resources.  

I think both you and LeonardLeap make fantastic points for both sides of this.

I agree with LL that we should "go for it now" and why trade a guy if you don't have to.

That said, I also agree with you that IF we're strapped for cash, I wouldn't mind trading Boyd for a lineman, or to clear space to sign one.

For me, it's just a question of will we actually need the money? At first it seems like $70 million will be plenty to reshape the line...but Fred recently listed all the players we'll need to bring back or replace, and it was a longer list than I initially thought.

I still think we should have enough, but it's very possible we'll only have enough to make a couple semi-decent signings. Depending on how things go, I'd be open to trading Boyd. You can't get too emotionally attached to players, and he is overpaid for being a guy that often disappears for long stretches.

[Savagehenry54]

(02-14-2022, 01:54 PM)casear2727 Wrote: This is simply not biz smart strategy.  You dont continue to pay a guy money for what he did in the past after when you replaced his production with 2 other guys. And desperately need longterm solutions on the oline.

We dont need a $10M year guy catching 4 passes a game while ruin our QB's career.  

We need to be a franchise that understands priorities.  #1 protect Joe, #2 weapons for Joe.  

#1 is terrible.
#2 is covered with Chase, Tee, Mixon - TE and slot are the lower priorities.

Burrow and chase are on their rookie deals for 3 more years.  They don't have to get rid of boyd to sign better lineman.

[casear2727]

(03-10-2022, 05:14 PM)Savagehenry54 Wrote: Burrow and chase are on their rookie deals for 3 more years.  They don't have to get rid of boyd to sign better lineman.

We truly dont, but in this hypothetical, and according to Hobson's poverty take, I trade Boyd for a draft pick and free up his salary to obtain max value, he will never be worth more than now, and sprinkle his salary to the amounts we are willing to spend on an olinemen, or two, to get that next tier guy.

We already know that FA is not going to be as glorious as we all once hoped.

[Gdale_Bengal]

No new FA players guys. Just draft picks and extra trips to the Swiss Alps for our amazing front office. Lord knows they’ve earned a few more over these last 30 years.