The End of Bates?

[Whatever]

(03-06-2022, 09:14 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I wouldn't go so far as to say there's no point. We're trying to win a SB. The deadline for the tag comes before free agency. A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush. If we let him go and struggle in free agency, that'd be a tough pill to swallow.

If we struggle in FA, it will be a tough pill to swallow no matter what.  

We're trying to win a SB and this has the potential to be a distraction.  I'd like to think it won't hit LeVeon Bell proportions, but there's no guarantee it doesn't.  Agents talk their clients into all sorts of things when they are trying to drive up the price for a position group. There's no guarantee Bates signs the FT and reports to TC.  If he doesn't, what kind of shape does he show up in and when?  That goes beyond the mental issues he said he struggled with last year.

It's obvious he's not a long term solution and he doesn't want to be here unless he gets insane money.  Quality S's are relatively cheap in FA and we have a good record of drafting immediate quality starters.  Dragging out the inevitable isn't in our best interest.

[Gdale_Bengal]

No. He didn’t play well enough during the season to earn that kind of money.

Tag him, then draft a guy in the next 2 years to replace him

[ElkValleyBengal]

(03-06-2022, 11:17 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: It’s apparently all about the money for him. We aren’t the team for him if that’s all he cares about.

That's free agency in a nutshell.  The notion players will choose to wear stripes at a reduced price should be put to rest.  

[Bengalbug]

(03-07-2022, 04:19 AM)ElkValleyBengal Wrote: That's free agency in a nutshell.  The notion players will choose to wear stripes at a reduced price should be put to rest.  

People never learn. Often times leaving for more money, but to a worse team. After only a few years, they are cut and then bouncing around.

If the bengals offered bates five year 15m/year, it’s likely a much better (long term) deal for him than someone like jags or lions that
That offer 18m/year.

[Bengalbug]

The honey badger is looking to test FA. If the bengals let bates walk, how would the group feel about bringing in Tyrann on a 3 year/45m deal? He is older than bates, about to be 30. But he is still a top player at his position and would Bring a little of that “swag” back that would hopefully keep the defense moral in tact.

[Sled21]

(03-05-2022, 12:34 PM)pally Wrote: he also retweeted a post that said "today's price ain't yesterday's price".  The odds are pretty high he is going to be franchised so unless he is planning to hold out for next season, it doesn't matter what he does with his social media

No, it's probably cheaper. Does he really think his outstanding play in the playoffs means we forget about his average play during the year? If he played all year the way he did in the playoffs we would have won more games. He's shown he's capable of that kind of play, so he was obviously dogging it. 

[fredtoast]

(03-06-2022, 11:53 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: It was the pff week 1 thread. I start discussion of the run game not being able to pick up short yards with you on page 2

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-PFF-grades-week-1?page=2

Everything I said was 100% correct.

So what is your point?

I really did not take your serious after you claimed that "4 yards to go" was a "short yardage" situation.

[Au165]

Just an FYI, I doubt the reported top line number is correct but rather the structure is the sticking point. It was the topic of an ESPN article this weekend, and something I have said all year, that the way we structure contracts with limited guarantees and upfront cash really turns off agents even though we are a great destination.

[fredtoast]

(03-07-2022, 10:54 AM)Au165 Wrote: Just an FYI, I doubt the reported top line number is correct but rather the structure is the sticking point.

This.

NFL is much different from MLB and NBA.  The amount of guaranteed money is often way more important than total contract value.

There have been cases in the past where an agent would get some ridiculous contract for a player when everyone involved knew the player would never collect all the money.  The player just wanted to be able to say that he had the biggest contract.

[Soonerpeace]

(03-07-2022, 10:54 AM)Au165 Wrote: Just an FYI, I doubt the reported top line number is correct but rather the structure is the sticking point. It was the topic of an ESPN article this weekend, and something I have said all year, that the way we structure contracts with limited guarantees and upfront cash really turns off agents even though we are a great destination.

I’m sure that if they lose several of their key players the next few years off a Super Bowl roster then the final verdict won’t be a hung jury… it will be a quick 1 hour deliberation of death by whatever. But I sense some shift in philosophy. You have to have ownership that’s just as competitive as it’s players. The Bengals haven’t had that. My BIL long retired was one of the heads of a household name tech. They dominated the software business and although they had 80% of the market he wanted 100%. They all felt that way.

The Rams went all out for the Super Bowl. Don’t agree with their strategy. But boy they went after it.

[WeezyBengal]

Ridiculous people are believing an Instagram account with less than 100 followers.

No way in hell Bates is asking for 20 million a year.

He wants 15 million a year. I promise you the deal is hung up on the guaranteed money.

[WVUHomer]

What chances do we have on just letting JB3 testing out the market and if someone offers him what he wants, no harm no foul but if they don't, get him for what we all see his value is? I feel if we do it this way, then he cannot claim were holding him hostage and we can also claim we are doing whats best for the team but would love him back?

I know we would all want something for him but we can show strength by not caving to demands, showing respect for his decisions, and not wasting a big contract like we did with the AJ FT.

[treee]

It's more about not having to overpay rather than getting a discount.

[Ell Prez]

(03-07-2022, 04:19 AM)ElkValleyBengal Wrote: That's free agency in a nutshell.  The notion players will choose to wear stripes at a reduced price should be put to rest.  

1000%. These players make a lot, but they need this money to survive a lifetime. Retiring at 30-32, you have 50 more years of living and most these players won’t get jobs making 6 figures.

Yes it’s easy to say that a player making millions has enough, but after taxes and high cost of living (and they should, they earned it), they need to maximize their earnings while they can. I would do the exact same thing for my family. I don’t blame any player for trying to make as much as he can. I will applaud someone for taking a cut to play in the city/team you want. But I’ll never get mad for a player trying to get their worth.

[Mer]

He misses too many tackles for an elite Safety. Let him walk if he won't take a team friendly deal. Then he can sit at home next season and watch his former team win it all without him.

[TecmoBengals]

What's a better use of money? Bates or throwing guaranteed money at a CB like JC Jackson?

[Ell Prez]

(03-07-2022, 01:50 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: What's a better use of money? Bates or throwing guaranteed money at a CB like JC Jackson?

Jackson. Draft safety in round 1 or 2.

[TecmoBengals]

(03-07-2022, 01:54 PM)Ell Prez Wrote: Jackson. Draft safety in round 1 or 2.

& obviously there would have to be mutual interest. Jackson would have to want to be on the Bengals, but I'm guessing "Bates-like money" probably interests him.

[Whatever]

(03-07-2022, 12:53 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Ridiculous people are believing an Instagram account with less than 100 followers.

No way in hell Bates is asking for 20 million a year.

He wants 15 million a year. I promise you the deal is hung up on the guaranteed money.

$15 mil doesn't really make sense.  $15 mil APY would have made him one of the 5 highest paid S's last year, but won't this year after Williams and likely Honey Badger top that.  I think most of can agree that Bates wants to be at least Top 5 if not the highest paid.  $15 mil was likely his price last year, and that was with him playing on a rookie deal where a catastrophic injury could kill his chances at a big pay day.  He's going to increase his price relative to the current market, not decrease it, because he has a lot more security with the FT.   

A lot of people are getting hung up on the FT # of about $13 mil when trying to estimate what Bates wants, but keep in mind that the FT is based off that year's 5 biggest cap hits, not the 5 highest APY's.  $13 mil would actually only be the 9th highest APY for a S last year, not an average of the Top 5 APY's.

[Mer]

He misses too many tackles for an elite Safety. Let him walk if he won't take a team friendly deal. Then he can sit at home next season and watch his former team win it all without him.