The End of Bates?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(03-16-2022, 07:22 PM)Au165 Wrote: 14 per really isn’t that much right now for a safety and with cap inflation will be a steal by year 3.

According to Over The Cap, $14.somethingM/yr is Top 5 for the position, but there are 5 players between $14-15M/yr. I’ll just say Top 10.

If his play was like 2020 consistently, I might consider it. I’m probably in the minority. But, I don’t want to lease for a year when I can use that money to buy.

[THE PISTONS]

I'd love to add Landon Collins.

[*pally*]

FYI Jessie Bates agent is none other than David Mulugheta, the man who just negotiated that mega-deal for Deshaun Watson

[Chezaugie]

(03-18-2022, 06:09 PM)pally Wrote: FYI Jessie Bates agent is none other than David Mulugheta, the man who just negotiated that mega-deal for Deshaun Watson

The Bengals have made many mistakes in the past but I am confident they aren't as stupid as the Browns. Cleveland has been the quarterback wasteland of the NFL (31 different starting quarterbacks since 1999). I don't expect Watson to really change that dynamic much (although he is far above Mr. "I'm not cocky, I'm confident"). Mulugheta will certainly be shut down by the Bengals and Bates will move on. That is what the draft and FA is for.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-18-2022, 07:11 PM)Chezaugie Wrote: The Bengals have made many mistakes in the past but I am confident they aren't as stupid as the Browns. Cleveland has been the quarterback wasteland of the NFL (31 different starting quarterbacks since 1999). I don't expect Watson to really change that dynamic much (although he is far above Mr. "I'm not cocky, I'm confident"). Mulugheta will certainly be shut down by the Bengals and Bates will move on. That is what the draft and FA is for.

Eventually a QB will succeed there...just like Burrow won playoff games here.

[*jason*]

(03-18-2022, 07:47 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Eventually a QB will succeed there...just like Burrow won playoff games here.

It's going to be this one. I'm not sure where the Watson isn't all that crowd gets that take from.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-18-2022, 07:49 PM)jason Wrote: It's going to be this one. I'm not sure where the Watson isn't all that crowd gets that take from.

Yep. He's an mvp level guy. He's like a Lamar Jackson that can actually throw.

Our division is going to be tough for years.

[Housh]

(03-14-2022, 06:24 PM)Synric Wrote: Davonte Adams told the Packers he refuses to play under the franchise tag.

https://www.nfl.com/_amp/davante-adams-informs-packers-he-wont-play-on-franchise-tag-in-2022

Bates doesn’t have that leverage. Adams os arguably the second or third best WR in the game, AND the Packers we’re looking for an excuse to shed his context after paying Aaron. Bates just didn’t play good enough to use this threat.

The problem we have is let’s say he’s playoff Bates all next year. He would’ve earned even more money and we are already hesitant to pay him this year, he’s definitely gone next year.

If i were Bates I’d take whatever long term deal we offered because too much can happen in a season. Look at Larry O.

[*psychdoctor*]

I didn't know his agent gives me the creeps

[Housh]

Guys please watch this video. It’s an amazing Jessie Bates highlight video. I think anyone who is wondering why we aren’t pulling the trigger on that 70+ million dollar deal needs to watch this and take note of what you DONT see. Because best believe they Bengals are doing this.



What do we see? We see a man whose amazing in pass coverage….period. He can cover. He can get to a spot and do it fast. We also see a solid outside tackler. He’s not gonna make many Troy Polamalu goal line stops or 1 yard stops but on outside runs he’s aggressive and strong. But if you getting paid top 3 safety money we need you to tackle inside as well. Bates just isn’t a factor on inside runs. A lot of that is we play him over top almost all the time but he doesn’t seem to have good instincts making plays in the traffic like other safeties do. Which is fine, no one is perfect. But these things stop you from getting huge contracts. Lastly i see a great decision maker. Whether he makes the play himself or not Bates seems to choose the right area of the field the QB wants to attack. I was really impressed by Bates this year in this regard. You can’t teach this. If you ever really sat and watched Ray Lewis play, he would almost magically have a hand in most tackles. He just knew where to be.




What don’t you see in these highlights though? You don’t see many interceptions. You don’t see many TFLs. These are the sexy plays that get people paid. Bates doesn’t have them. This is why i am 100% sure whatever we offered was fair. Bates is within his right to want more though because of his argument is our D couldn’t have operated without him, he’s right. Bates ability to cover the full field from that deep middle position is amazing. But i warn Bates, we could easily go cover 2 and make him less valuable. He does not make enough game changing plays to warrant top 3 FS money. These highlights imo show his exact strengths and the lack of picks on these highlights show that he’s still got work to do.

https://youtu.be/liHGIXzSinw

[casear2727]

(03-30-2022, 04:48 PM)Housh Wrote: Guys please watch this video. It’s an amazing Jessie Bates highlight video. I think anyone who is wondering why we aren’t pulling the trigger on that 70+ million dollar deal needs to watch this and take note of what you DONT see. Because best believe they Bengals are doing this.



What do we see? We see a man whose amazing in pass coverage….period. He can cover. He can get to a spot and do it fast. We also see a solid outside tackler. He’s not gonna make many Troy Polamalu goal line stops or 1 yard stops but on outside runs he’s aggressive and strong. But if you getting paid top 3 safety money we need you to tackle inside as well. Bates just isn’t a factor on inside runs. A lot of that is we play him over top almost all the time but he doesn’t seem to have good instincts making plays in the traffic like other safeties do. Which is fine, no one is perfect. But these things stop you from getting huge contracts. Lastly i see a great decision maker. Whether he makes the play himself or not Bates seems to choose the right area of the field the QB wants to attack. I was really impressed by Bates this year in this regard. You can’t teach this. If you ever really sat and watched Ray Lewis play, he would almost magically have a hand in most tackles. He just knew where to be.




What don’t you see in these highlights though? You don’t see many interceptions. You don’t see many TFLs. These are the sexy plays that get people paid. Bates doesn’t have them. This is why i am 100% sure whatever we offered was fair. Bates is within his right to want more though because of his argument is our D couldn’t have operated without him, he’s right. Bates ability to cover the full field from that deep middle position is amazing. But i warn Bates, we could easily go cover 2 and make him less valuable. He does not make enough game changing plays to warrant top 3 FS money. These highlights imo show his exact strengths and the lack of picks on these highlights show that he’s still got work to do.

https://youtu.be/liHGIXzSinw

[fredtoast]

(03-30-2022, 04:48 PM)Housh Wrote: What don’t you see in these highlights though? You don’t see many interceptions. You don’t see many TFLs. These are the sexy plays that get people paid. Bates doesn’t have them. This is why i am 100% sure whatever we offered was fair.

First of all let me say I agree that Bates did not play well enough to earn a top contract last year.  But it is not about interceptions and TFLs.  Those are rare plays for free safeties.  You are talking about 4 or 5 plays in a thousand snap season.

[ElkValleyBengal]

Bates had two interceptions himself during the postseason, including one in the Super Bowl. Plus, he was indirectly responsible for a third in the K.C. OT win- which was the most impressive play of the three.

[Tony]

(03-18-2022, 07:49 PM)jason Wrote: It's going to be this one. I'm not sure where the Watson isn't all that crowd gets that take from.

Watson is injury prone and won't win shit in Cleveland.. I'd bet anything on it...

[Nicomo Cosca]

(03-30-2022, 09:53 PM)Tony Wrote: Watson is injury prone and won't win shit in Cleveland.. I'd bet anything on it...

Literally what are you talking about? After his rookie season he played 16 games, 15 games, and 16 games. A torn ACL is hardly “injury prone.”

[*bfine32*]

Latest words from KB don't seem like we're going to make signing JB3 to a long term a top priority:
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/03/30/bengals-will-circle-back-with-jessie-bates-at-some-point-on-contract-talks/

Quote:“There hasn’t been a lot to report on since we put the tag on him,” Blackburn said, via Kelsey Conway of the Cincinnati Enquirer. “We obviously tried to get him re-signed last year. Thought we had a good chance of getting that done but it didn’t quite get there. I think they wanted to see where the market went in free agency and at some point, we’ll circle back with him and see where we are. But obviously, we love Jessie as a player and if there’s a way we could get something worked out, that would be great. And we just have to see where it goes.”

I think we gave JB3 our best offer last year and he turned it down, The Bengals aren't going any higher than they've already offered.

[*jason*]

(03-30-2022, 10:29 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Latest words from KB don't seem like we're going to make signing JB3 to a long term a top priority:
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/03/30/bengals-will-circle-back-with-jessie-bates-at-some-point-on-contract-talks/
I think we gave JB3 our best offer last year and he turned it down, The Bengals aren't going any higher than they've already offered.

Looks like Vonn Bell will get another 2 year deal or so.

[KillerGoose]

(03-30-2022, 09:53 PM)Tony Wrote: Watson is injury prone and won't win shit in Cleveland.. I'd bet anything on it...

He’s torn about ACL and that’s pretty much it. Without having thrown a pass for Cleveland yet, he is the best QB they’ve ever had and the rest of their team is solid as well. They should be much improved.

Basically, I’m hoping you’re not much of a betting man.

[grampahol]

(03-05-2022, 01:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Mike Brown is on MySpace.

I doubt he made it to MySpace...more like still "For a good time call Mike" on some public bathroom wall somewhere..

[TecmoBengals]

(03-31-2022, 09:50 AM)grampahol Wrote: I doubt he made it to MySpace...more like still "For a good time call Mike" on some public bathroom wall somewhere..

I'm thinking Mike still writes memos and has them sent from one office to the next. He hasn't bought into email or other technological advances in communication just yet.