Is Eli Apple The Starting CB?

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-01-2022, 01:34 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, our #2 corner against the best WR in the NFL? What do you think is going to happen?

Can't expect your #2 to win there, it would of been different if it was Awuzie maybe...

We just don't know.

In the end our O-line needed to hold up and we would of still won. Spain screwed the pooch.

Thank God we improved the OL in Free Agency. 

Just reading these posts (and most have a sensible, optimistic view of Apple), I think of how many TOP FLIGHT CBs that Ja'Marr Chase absolutely roasted in 2021.  I mean, ROASTED.  Marlon Humphry?  Chase sets an NFL record.  I think Chase put doubt in a lot of guys minds last year.  The more I think about that and how afraid CBs will be this year of getting beat (badly) over the top, the underneath should be there all day for guys like Boyd and Hurst.  I am pretty sure that the new offensive line, an improve run game, and this Brady-esque "eat underneath all day" will make the offense that much more efficient.

I know this thread was about Apple, but a bigger lead provided by the offense allows a pass rush to tee off and DBs to make plays.  It all works together.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-02-2022, 08:52 PM)MasonDT70 Wrote: Come on we all know if the player isn't an all pro he's immediately trash...

Jackson, is that you?  

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-03-2022, 09:12 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Bengals 2021 Defense
18th Overall
17th Scoring
5th Rushing
26th Passing
22nd 3rd Down %
17th Takeaways
12th Sacks

Now, isolate the playoff games and see how they performed against the best offenses in the league.  It took time to gel, but when it did, it was the defense that got the Bengals to the Super Bowl in spite of a struggling offense against the best defenses.  

[*SHRacerX*]

Weird...No responses?

[KillerGoose]

(04-06-2022, 07:04 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Weird...No responses?

Nothing much changed. In the playoffs, Cincinnati had the 6th best defense out of 14 teams. They were still middle of the pack, ranking wise. 

POSTSEASON RANKINGS - DEFENSE


Yards per carry against - 11th out of 14
EPA per rush - 9th out of 14
Yards per attempt against - 5th out of 14
EPA per attempt against - 5th out of 14

Overall yards per play against - 9th out of 14
Overall EPA per play against - 6th out of 14

[Capt.Morgan]

Not only is Apple the starting cb - he's EARNED it imho.

Say what you want about his social media stuff, the dude played very well for us this year, particularly late in the year once he got his feet under him so to speak.

Another year in this system and it could work wonders for his development.

Oh, and Cooper Kupp a yard for the end zone is damn near unstoppable, some of you need to stop blaming Eli and point fingers at the real culprit(s) - o-line.

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-06-2022, 10:11 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: Nothing much changed. In the playoffs, Cincinnati had the 6th best defense out of 14 teams. They were still middle of the pack, ranking wise. 

POSTSEASON RANKINGS - DEFENSE


Yards per carry against - 11th out of 14
EPA per rush - 9th out of 14
Yards per attempt against - 5th out of 14
EPA per attempt against - 5th out of 14

Overall yards per play against - 9th out of 14
Overall EPA per play against - 6th out of 14

And points allowed?  

And I think notifications turned off for a day or something...I responded to a lot of folks on here and my notifications didn't work either. 

[KillerGoose]

(04-07-2022, 07:50 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: And points allowed?  

And I think notifications turned off for a day or something...I responded to a lot of folks on here and my notifications didn't work either. 

 Overall, they were 3rd out of 14. Out of the four teams that made the CCG, they were 3rd out of 4. Most of this data (including what I posted earlier) is quite skewed due to the low sample size, but it is all we have. Teams getting blown out in the first round throws in outliers that usually get normalized throughout the season. The Bengals were a slightly above average defense on a play-by-play basis but made the most of their opportunities for turnovers. I'm pretty sure they logged the most turnovers in the postseason. That was the biggest difference between postseason and regular season play. 

[basballguy]

(04-06-2022, 06:11 PM)Capt.Morgan Wrote: Not only is Apple the starting cb - he's EARNED it imho.

Say what you want about his social media stuff, the dude played very well for us this year, particularly late in the year once he got his feet under him so to speak.

Another year in this system and it could work wonders for his development.

Oh, and Cooper Kupp a yard for the end zone is damn near unstoppable, some of you need to stop blaming Eli and point fingers at the real culprit(s) - o-line.

I find it strange there are people that think Eli Apple gets his hate from literally the last snap he played in the 2021 season.

[Frank Booth]

(04-07-2022, 02:18 PM)basballguy Wrote: I find it strange there are people that think Eli Apple gets his hate from literally the last snap he played in the 2021 season.

Why do you hate him? Twitter? That has nothing to do with his play.

After the bye, he was a decent number 2 corner

Unless you want to ignore that and just solely focus on the first 8 weeks

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-07-2022, 09:20 AM)KillerGoose Wrote:  Overall, they were 3rd out of 14. Out of the four teams that made the CCG, they were 3rd out of 4. Most of this data (including what I posted earlier) is quite skewed due to the low sample size, but it is all we have. Teams getting blown out in the first round throws in outliers that usually get normalized throughout the season. The Bengals were a slightly above average defense on a play-by-play basis but made the most of their opportunities for turnovers. I'm pretty sure they logged the most turnovers in the postseason. That was the biggest difference between postseason and regular season play. 

Yep, and turnovers were a huge part of it.  I would bet, however, that they were 3rd out of those remaining 4 teams by a very small margin.  Regardless, the 3rd out of 14 was the number I was looking for.  Thanks for researching.  That is a REALLY solid defense.  

And as to my earlier point, they really came together down the stretch.  Imagine if they had played that level for an entire season?  That is what I am looking forward to this year.  Maybe add a little help to the pass rush, depth at CB, and with an even more potent offense (Joe Burrow with protection?) they could be a top 5 unit despite the 3rd toughest schedule in 2022.  

[*bengalfan74*]

(04-08-2022, 08:00 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Yep, and turnovers were a huge part of it.  I would bet, however, that they were 3rd out of those remaining 4 teams by a very small margin.  Regardless, the 3rd out of 14 was the number I was looking for.  Thanks for researching.  That is a REALLY solid defense.  

And as to my earlier point, they really came together down the stretch.  Imagine if they had played that level for an entire season?  That is what I am looking forward to this year.  Maybe add a little help to the pass rush, depth at CB, and with an even more potent offense (Joe Burrow with protection?) they could be a top 5 unit despite the 3rd toughest schedule in 2022.  

That can help a defense so much. Not only in time on the field but also field position and playing with a lead so on.

[fredtoast]

(04-07-2022, 03:50 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Unless you want to ignore that and just solely focus on the first 8 weeks

It is not the first 8 weeks with him.

He is one of those guys who have hated Apple for years.  There are a lot of them here.  They don't care how well he played the second half of the season.  They hate him for the way he acted years ago.

[KillerGoose]

(04-08-2022, 08:00 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Yep, and turnovers were a huge part of it.  I would bet, however, that they were 3rd out of those remaining 4 teams by a very small margin.  Regardless, the 3rd out of 14 was the number I was looking for.  Thanks for researching.  That is a REALLY solid defense.  

And as to my earlier point, they really came together down the stretch.  Imagine if they had played that level for an entire season?  That is what I am looking forward to this year.  Maybe add a little help to the pass rush, depth at CB, and with an even more potent offense (Joe Burrow with protection?) they could be a top 5 unit despite the 3rd toughest schedule in 2022.  

Not a super small margin IMO. Cincinnati averaged 20.5 points allowed. The Rams averaged 18.75 (9% difference) and San Francisco averaged 15.6 (31% difference). I do hope they can keep the turnovers up, that was such a huge deal in their run. On a play-by-play basis, they were more or less the same as they were in the regular season but that kind of performance is fine if you take advantage of your turnover opportunities. Ideally, a small improvement play-by-play and a small increase in turnovers would be fantastic. 

And yes, hopefully the offense is potent enough to force deficits and passing situations early and often. That would help Lou get into his pressure packages.  

[Hammerstripes]

(03-30-2022, 04:01 PM)Xan Wrote: Apple is... not good. Until he is replaced, someone is always open.

You must not have watched a majority of the games last year.

People also tend to forget he's the guy that made the play that got us to the AFC Title game.

[phil413]

This thread is too polarized with political tactics. Too many want to talk about one big play. One group says he is trash for losing the super bowl, another says anyone would have been beaten on that play so leave him alone.

What's wrong with looking beyond that one play and not letting it affect Apple as a whole? He is great value for the 4M/1yr deal but not signed beyond that. We still have work to do at CB (even having Flowers) and need another player to challenge him, even if he has the advantage. The CB position is bigger than Eli's social media or one play, let's not make it all about attacking or defending Eli.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(04-08-2022, 11:05 AM)fredtoast Wrote: It is not the first 8 weeks with him.

He is one of those guys who have hated Apple for years.  There are a lot of them here.  They don't care how well he played the second half of the season.  They hate him for the way he acted years ago.

The way he acted years ago had nothing to do with the Bengals, so it's rather moot.

But i guess with your silly logic you must hate quite a few players in the NFL.

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-08-2022, 12:44 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Not a super small margin IMO. Cincinnati averaged 20.5 points allowed. The Rams averaged 18.75 (9% difference) and San Francisco averaged 15.6 (31% difference). I do hope they can keep the turnovers up, that was such a huge deal in their run. On a play-by-play basis, they were more or less the same as they were in the regular season but that kind of performance is fine if you take advantage of your turnover opportunities. Ideally, a small improvement play-by-play and a small increase in turnovers would be fantastic. 

And yes, hopefully the offense is potent enough to force deficits and passing situations early and often. That would help Lou get into his pressure packages.  

The San Fran game had some pretty pathetic elements involved and a few missed kicks due to it, and less that two points difference (even though that is 9%) over three games (for the Bengals) doesn't seem that significant.

Not trying to throw salt on everyone's wound, but had Burrow had another second of protection and he takes the shot with Chase, the difference is gone.  The defense was that close to what the Rams did in the playoffs. 

[fredtoast]

(04-09-2022, 01:17 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: The way he acted years ago had nothing to do with the Bengals, so it's rather moot.

But i guess with your silly logic you must hate quite a few players in the NFL.

You need to re-read my post that you quoted.

[*rfaulk34*]

(04-08-2022, 08:00 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Yep, and turnovers were a huge part of it.  I would bet, however, that they were 3rd out of those remaining 4 teams by a very small margin.  Regardless, the 3rd out of 14 was the number I was looking for.  Thanks for researching.  That is a REALLY solid defense.  

And as to my earlier point, they really came together down the stretch.  Imagine if they had played that level for an entire season?  That is what I am looking forward to this year.  Maybe add a little help to the pass rush, depth at CB, and with an even more potent offense (Joe Burrow with protection?) they could be a top 5 unit despite the 3rd toughest schedule in 2022.  

Turnovers were the biggest part of it. Timely turnovers specifically. They averaged 1.05 t/o a game in the reg season and upped that to 2.25 in the post season. Last play int against the Raiders, late game int (3 total) against the Titans that directly lead to the GWFG and two 2nd half ints of Mahomes, including one in overtime that directly led to the GWFG in that game. The only thing missing in the post season was the late game t/o to ice the super bowl.

Yardage-wise, they were very similar in ypg, total and in passing and running--as well as ppg.