Why the **** is Jessie Bates not signed yet?

[XenoMorph]

(08-17-2022, 12:10 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm referring to after this year.

Im doubtful he plays this year here  Will likely be a Traded as soon as he signs.  But nothing can happen if he doesnt sign the contract

[Nicomo Cosca]

(08-17-2022, 12:00 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Franchise him again next year then let him ride off into the sunset.

I'm sure he won't like that, though.

Franchising him again would be a terrible idea. That money could be used much more wisely elsewhere. Especially if Dax pans out.

[higgy100]

(08-17-2022, 12:22 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Not worried about retaining Bates over his performance during the regular season last year.

Agree. Had he had a far better reg. season along with a couple INT's that he had in his hands (1-2 for pick 6's) we may not
be having this conversation, although, he's really just playing for the correct franchise that feels like they warrant paying a S that type of $.

James has also just one of those WOW players that just steals headlines. Huge hitter that gets lined up
everywhere on the field and ESPN/NFL Network run features on him and just run with it. Bates was/is just the model of consistency most years
who doesn't flare up in the front of the camera. The brand is what it is.

[leonardfan40]

(08-17-2022, 11:44 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Derwin James just signed a new deal with the Chargers - 4 years, $76 mill. $42 mill signing bonus.
James will average $19 mill in his new deal, just surpassing Minkah Fitzpatrick.

One can argue Bates has been better than both James and Fitzpatrick over these past 4 years, and could (should?) argue he deserves to be paid very close to what they got.

With yet another safety getting $18+ mill, do you see this as a sign that Bates will not get a new deal signed with the Bengals?

Bates is not as good as James. He’s probably neck and neck with Fitzpatrick. Bates has been BAD for 2 of the last 4 years. Not mediocre, not down years, but BAD. If he can’t be consistent he doesn’t deserve to be paid as a top level player.

I’ve said for a year now I’d give him in the $13-16 mil range. If he wants a penny over that (which I’m sure he could get on the open market if he plays well this season) he can go. I thought $15 mil might get it done before these new contracts rolled in, but you are right that will not happen after these recent signings. Bates will play out this year on the tag and if he plays well he’ll leave for $20mil/yr next offseason. Then probably have another shitty year the following season and his new teams fans will want him cut lol he plays one good season then one bad. He should be due for a good regular season this year.

[WeezyBengal]

(08-17-2022, 12:23 PM)Stewy Wrote: I am sure he will sit out then.  Since he will have gotten some $$$, then it's the perfect time.  Depending on how things go during the season, we may franchise him and immediately try and trade him.  Or put the transitional tag on him and let him rot.

You think he'd forfeit 13-15 million dollars sitting out next year? He'd have to be stupid. 

[Housh]

New normal for a top FS being 18 mill plus is where we are at. The game is transitioning from linebackers to safeties and hybrids. We better start praying Dax takes to FS. I have a feeling his career here won’t be used as that Swiss Army knife we 1st thought. I think he’s gonna play mostly safety during this rookie contract. I enjoy the idea of him and Hilton running slot corner but i just don’t see it as practical if Bates is gone. We’re gonna need him at FS.

I’m honestly starting to get a little scared for Bell too. I could easily see Bell having a career year and us having to let him walk too. May be smart to keep an eye on Tycen Anderson too.

[bk42]

I’ve been wondering for a while now if they’ll talk extension with bell this preseason. It would be nice to guaranty some continuity at the safety position.

[Stewy]

(08-17-2022, 12:39 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: You think he'd forfeit 13-15 million dollars sitting out next year? He'd have to be stupid. 

I'm mostly saying he could afford it, since he will have finally been paid some money.  Also there is precedent set for sitting out the second tag - that former steelers RB.  Never can remember his name.  Bell?

Will he sit out a second tag?  I don't know, but his agent is a hard ass, and he'll be able to afford it, AND even though it didn't work out for the Jets the Steelers RB got a huge contract out of it, so.....

But to earn that huge contract, Bates has to ball out this year, so it's no lose for the bengals.

[tms]

Too many Mike Brown lackeys constantly misrepresent what free agency is. It's not meant to pay you according to where you *rank. "He's 5th-best... therefore he should be paid like #5." Lol no... no... no. - Steve Carell. These are deals (as in the case of Derwin) where you might get paid top dollar today, but by the time the contract expires you'll be way down the list. Maybe 8, maybe 9, maybe 10- who knows where Derwin's same contract will be in 2026. If you want him to be paid 5th-most (or whatever) over the course of the contract, then he'd better be paid ~~#1 or #2 upfront. Otherwise you're asking him to take a discount.

Not to mention, guaranteed cash is the only thing that matters in this game. Which is why PBS is no more and Paycor gates are now getting sponsored lol; Burrow and his agent will not be settling for less guaranteed cash than his peers under any circumstances. This is a rule that holds across all position groups (even if their %'s are less). James is getting 55% guaranteed. For the Bengals to think Bates will accept 25% (of whatever total) is like a time machine because it pulls me right back to the 90s. If you're going to nickel & dime these guys, at least trade them for draft capital and allow both sides to move on. Enough of "Cincinnati's Stingy Billionaire." Everyone's tired of that nonsense.

[*Synric*]

(08-17-2022, 01:57 PM)tms Wrote: Too many Mike Brown lackeys constantly misrepresent what free agency is. It's not meant to pay you according to where you *rank. "He's 5th-best... therefore he should be paid like #5." Lol no... no... no. - Steve Carell. These are deals (as in the case of Derwin) where you might get paid top dollar today, but by the time the contract expires you'll be way down the list. Maybe 8, maybe 9, maybe 10- who knows where Derwin's same contract will be in 2026. If you want him to be paid 5th-most (or whatever) over the course of the contract, then he'd better be paid #1 upfront. Otherwise you're asking him to take a discount.

Not to mention, guaranteed cash is the only thing that matters in this game. Which is why PBS is no more and Paycor gates are now getting sponsored lol; Burrow and his agent will not be settling for less guaranteed cash than his peers under any circumstances. This is a rule that holds across all position groups (even if their %'s are less). James is getting 55% guaranteed. For the Bengals to think Bates will accept 25% (of whatever total) is like a time machine because it pulls me right back to the 90s. If you're going to nickel & dime these guys, at least trade them for draft capital and allow both sides to move on. Enough of "Cincinnati's Stingy Billionaire." Everyone's tired of that nonsense.

The only thing gaurenteed money does is make sure the team is still paying you even after you get cut. 

[GodFather]

https://www.nfl.com/news/chargers-derwin-james-signing-four-year-extension


His agent must really be chomping at the bit after this news, souring Bates to another level...

[fredtoast]

(08-17-2022, 01:57 PM)tms Wrote: Too many Mike Brown lackeys constantly misrepresent what free agency is. It's not meant to pay you according to where you *rank. "He's 5th-best... therefore he should be paid like #5." Lol no... no... no. - Steve Carell. These are deals (as in the case of Derwin) where you might get paid top dollar today, but by the time the contract expires you'll be way down the list. Maybe 8, maybe 9, maybe 10- who knows where Derwin's same contract will be in 2026. If you want him to be paid 5th-most (or whatever) over the course of the contract, then he'd better be paid ~~#1 or #2 upfront. Otherwise you're asking him to take a discount.

Not to mention, guaranteed cash is the only thing that matters in this game. Which is why PBS is no more and Paycor gates are now getting sponsored lol; Burrow and his agent will not be settling for less guaranteed cash than his peers under any circumstances. This is a rule that holds across all position groups (even if their %'s are less). James is getting 55% guaranteed. For the Bengals to think Bates will accept 25% (of whatever total) is like a time machine because it pulls me right back to the 90s. If you're going to nickel & dime these guys, at least trade them for draft capital and allow both sides to move on. Enough of "Cincinnati's Stingy Billionaire." Everyone's tired of that nonsense.

How exactly have we been able to sign all these top level free agents recently if we are too stingy to do business in today's NFL?

Looking back over Bengal history it is interesting to notoe how many of the free agent losses that the fand whine and cry about the most were actually smart moves by the Bengals.  I liked both Steinbach and Zeitler a lot, but they both got overpaid.  Fans want to cry about Mike Brown nto valuing interior offensive linemen, but he was smarter than them for not overpaying Eric and Kevin to stay here.

After the season Bates had last year I don't think any team in the league would make him the highest paid safety. and looking at all the high quality players we have signed recently I am pretty confident that we gave Bates a reasonable offer.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-09-2022, 09:54 PM)EatonFan Wrote: Meanwhile Hill could get a foothold on the starting position.  It just seems to me that Bates should get some reps in.

For sure. Dax Hill looked pretty damn good in his first Preseason game. Dude is pro ready already from what I saw.

Bates would of gotten beat on that TD pass just the same.

Bates better watch his ass or he could lose a ton of money.

Sign the damn tag Jessie, the sooner the better.

(08-13-2022, 12:47 AM)jason Wrote: Didn't look like he knew how to play for most of last year... $13 million wasted on a one year rental that isn't gonna put us over the top. I can only speak for myself, but I'm over the Jesse Bates thing.

True enough Jason. I can understand being over it.

His agent is screwing him right now though. I like Jessie Bates as a human being so it must just be the agent.

Jessie needs to override whatever the agent is telling him and just sign the Tag so he can get out on the field playing honestly.

[*jason*]

(08-17-2022, 01:49 PM)Stewy Wrote: I'm mostly saying he could afford it, since he will have finally been paid some money.  Also there is precedent set for sitting out the second tag - that former steelers RB.  Never can remember his name.  Bell?

Will he sit out a second tag?  I don't know, but his agent is a hard ass, and he'll be able to afford it, AND even though it didn't work out for the Jets the Steelers RB got a huge contract out of it, so.....

But to earn that huge contract, Bates has to ball out this year, so it's no lose for the bengals.

Why even bother franchising him a second time though. It's clear he's not long for this team, and there are plenty of other contracts that are coming up. I don't know for sure, but this all feels like a good time to use the tag while Hill develops, then move on with the rookie deal.

[BFritz21]

(08-17-2022, 02:24 PM)GodFather Wrote: https://www.nfl.com/news/chargers-derwin-james-signing-four-year-extension


His agent must really be chomping at the bit after this news, souring Bates to another level...

And now we're screwed even more because, even if we try for the tag and trade, no team is going to trade for him knowing that he'll want that kind of money.

Then again, maybe Bates will realize that he needs to have a HUGE year to get anywhere close to that kind of offer on the open market. With his agent, though, I doubt it. His agent is probably telling him "this guarantees a HUGE payday coming your way if you just stay healthy, so don't take any risks!"

Also, maybe Bates thinks he can half-ass the regular season again and then just turn it on in the playoffs and get a big contract. 

[WeezyBengal]

(08-17-2022, 12:25 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Franchising him again would be a terrible idea. That money could be used much more wisely elsewhere. Especially if Dax pans out.

Bell is up after this year too. Safety is going to need to be addressed one way or another. 

[J24]

(08-17-2022, 11:44 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Derwin James just signed a new deal with the Chargers - 4 years, $76 mill. $42 mill signing bonus.
James will average $19 mill in his new deal, just surpassing Minkah Fitzpatrick.

One can argue Bates has been better than both James and Fitzpatrick over these past 4 years, and could (should?) argue he deserves to be paid very close to what they got.

With yet another safety getting $18+ mill, do you see this as a sign that Bates will not get a new deal signed with the Bengals?

I think it was clear since last offseason that the Bengals were never going to spend big money on a Safety.  It's clear that Bates deserves more money than what the Bengals are willing to offer at this point. 

The bigger question to me is if the Bengals are willing to spend big money on Higgins.  He has the same agent as Bates and will want at least  40 Million guaranteed(Probably in the 50s)? I just don't see this Front Office willing  to do that.

[AlphaBengal]

The James deal just further cements the fact that Bates was never realistically signing a long term deal with us unless it was at a significant discount. With Burrow, Chase, Jonah, Higgins, etc coming up, there was no way this was happening. Add into the fact we don’t have the escrow to compete with some of these guaranteed deals, the writing was on the wall for awhile. With that being said I have faith in Dax. Dude is a baller and will prove to be a great replacement.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-17-2022, 04:28 PM)J24 Wrote: I think it was clear since last offseason that the Bengals were never going to spend big money on a Safety.  It's clear that Bates deserves more money than what the Bengals are willing to offer at this point. 

The bigger question to me is if the Bengals are willing to spend big money on Higgins.  He has the same agent as Bates and will want at least  40 Million guaranteed(Probably in the 50s)? I just don't see this Front Office willing  to do that.

Higgins (or at least his agent) could easily argue that he could be a true WR1 on a different team and deserves to be paid like one.
Bengals already have Chase, and he's even better.
I could see the Bengals offering something in the $10-15 mill range for Higgins to stay, but I doubt he would take.

[J24]

(08-17-2022, 04:45 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Higgins (or at least his agent) could easily argue that he could be a true WR1 on a different team and deserves to be paid like one.
Bengals already have Chase, and he's even better.
I could see the Bengals offering something in the $10-15 mill range for Higgins to stay, but I doubt he would take.

If they don't get a deal done with Higgins next offseason I hope they trade him next offseason for Value similar to what the Titans got for AJ Brown.

That's what's most frustrating for me about the Bates situation.  Is that we might end up with a measly 3rd RD comp pick in 2024. That's also if we watch what we spend in free agency. 

Why not trade Bates for a draft pick + a young player now? Get an immediate return for him.