Why Do You Like This Draft!

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-01-2022, 03:49 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: The job for the organization is to get better after a concluding season. First is resigning key players. B J Hill combined with D J Reader to form possibly the best run defense in the league in the late season and playoffs. Signed. Free Agency …C J Uzomah leaves and they replace him with Hayden Hurst not as good in some areas but arrives with a huge chip on his shoulder and a better passing target and threat. Good luck defending him on the deep seam routes. You replace 3 starters in the OL with solid proven experienced veterans. PFF rankings make them a possible top 10 unit now. Big upgrade.

Now to the draft… the weakest spot on the team is cornerback and Eli Apple. You draft Dax Hill a potential replacement but Cam Taylor-Britt the more expected competition. Britt is the most well rounded corner in the draft. He’s physical, he’s fast, and including his vertical and arm length plays much longer than 5.11. Some question passing on Travis Jones there. Good point but Jones is unlikely to start. Hill and CTB give you 2 shots at fixing your most worrisome position.

Next you address the depth at DT with Zach Carter from UF. This pick is my biggest scrutiny. But I’m sure Marion Hobby and Lou hashed out their board at DT and he was their highest available. I’m sure not foolish enough to fight it out with them.

Now you are faced with areas of depth that all teams struggle with. It’s just hard to fix them all. Tight End? You’ve got Sample more of a blocker and a vet in your system. You have the starter Hurst who is the opposite of Sample as a strong receiver and Redzone factor. I’ll pass. You’ve already addressed the secondary depth in your first 2 picks and DT with the third. What’s next? Running back? Nope Perine is good in blitz and Evans looks to take a huge leap in year 2. So what about the OL? Well might be good to get a versatile guard/tackle? Volson is interesting. If like Pollack said he wants a glass eater or a lineman with shit in his neck Volson fits that. The guy is as blue collar as you get. But I’ve said this elsewhere he’s mean. Burrow hates a collapsed pocket. He likes two step up. Teams were defending us knowing Joe hates that and pushed our interior line back a lot. Well with the free agents and damn sure Volson that ain’t happening.

So I don’t see that we’ve not improved this team a lot. Baltimore had a great draft. But they don’t have a receiver threat and our secondary is much better equipped now for Lamar IMO. Lou seems to have figured out the Lamar’s, Watson’s, and Mahome types out. Hilton and Taylor-Britt are great tacklers. Hill is as well. Bell too.

We can’t be the Green Bay Packers of the 60’s with today’s NFL. No team escapes depth issues at every spot.

Great post Soonerpeace. I guess some could argue with the Zachary Carter pick maybe, but we are going to use him as a 3-tech
and as long as he gets in the weight room and gains strength he should be very complimentary behind BJ Hill and take over the 
Ogunjobi roll all be it reversed. Carter will be BJ Hill's backup and with the way BJ grew in his game so much in the postseason we
should be upgraded over last year in the DT room which was already one of the deepest in the league.

Adding Dax Hill, Cam Taylor Britt and Tycen Anderson makes our Secondary one of the deepest where previously this was where
we needed depth. I think Dax Hill will get significant snaps as a rookie as he is so versatile and you never know about injuries, CTB
has long arms for a 5'11" Corner and is a ballhawk. Need to reign in his gambling a bit but that can be coached. Tycen is just talent,
you cannot teach his size and athleticism. Fun dude for Lou to coach up.

Volson does look like a mean Guard and with him and D'Ante Smith, Jackson Carman will be pushed and if his back is a problem 
we have insurance with these two guys at LG.

Gunter has great hands to shed blocks and is extremely athletic, things you cannot teach. Get in the weight room and he could be 
a great End in our rotation. We will see how Hubert looks after being injured last year. Have really high hopes for Ossai.

This is why I like this Draft!

(05-01-2022, 04:11 PM)Joelist Wrote: This was a fine draft. Hill is (and others said so) a major steal who should have gone earlier. High character, high skills and tackling and speed to boot. CTB likewise is high character with good tackling and coverage and speed. Note the common aspect of speed - our defensive backend got a huge injection of speed.

Carter is the one you need to look more closely then it becomes apparent. A lot of the "analysts" overlooked him because the had him as EDGE. The Bengals have him as 3T. And when you isolate his performance and scouting on 3T he grades far higher. Cater is not here to line up opposite Trey and rush the passer from there - he is in essence slotted into the role Ogunjobi was playing in rotation with BJ Hill.

In a similar vein, Volson is not projected by the team as OT but rather as OG. And as OG he has the traits needed and they have the needed time to coach him up. Anderson is another DB with good cover skills and speed and Gunter is a DE/LB tweener who improves both the DL and LB Rooms in depth terms.

Fixed your little hiccups in there Joelist. Yes, The Bengals are going to put Zachary Carter at 3-Tech behind BJ Hill and yes Volson 
is a Guard for us behind both Carman and Cappa. Completely agree, it was a fine Draft. We don't need splash picks right now, just
filling a couple holes for the future. We are the youngest team to ever go to the Superbowl after all. The future is bright and now 
we have a decent OL in front of Burrow and our RB's and our Secondary is stacked with good, young Linebackers and one of the 
best D-Lines in the NFL.

Injuries and maybe bad coaching are the only reasons I see us not contending for another Super Bowl appearance.

The AFC is as strong as I have ever seen it but that is alright. I still think we are the strongest of the bunch. The Ravens and the 
Steelers I think both had fantastic Drafts but we figured out how to play Lamar last year and Pickett is a rookie and Biscuit doesn't
scare me. Watson has his problems and doesn't have scary weapons besides his RB in Chubb. I still see us winning the Division.

[fredtoast]

(05-02-2022, 01:45 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote: That is an idiotic statement that almost no-one would agree with. 

Since my statement is a fact I don't care if other people agree with it.

QBs getting injured by sacks almost never has anything to do with the number of sacks.  QBs get injured in the beginning of the season at the same rate they do later in the season.  If the nuber of sacks made any difference you would nto see any QBs injured early in the season but thenm they would all start dropping late in the season when the sacks added up.

The last year Andrew Luck played in the NFL he was only sacked 18 times in 639 for the LOWEST SACK RATE IN THE LEAGUE.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(05-02-2022, 01:45 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote: That is an idiotic statement that almost no-one would agree with.  Every hit the QB takes is another chance at a potential injury.  You want him taking as few hits as possible.

Well yeah, ofc, but it seems like some of you still don’t realize what type of QB Burrow is by now. He’s always going to take a lot of hits. That’s just how he plays. We’ve put an average-to-slightly above average OL in front of him at this point. Would it be nice to have 5 All Pro’s up and down the line? Absolutely. But he’d still take more hits than a lot of other QB’s because of his style.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-02-2022, 02:00 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Well yeah, ofc, but it seems like some of you still don’t realize what type of QB Burrow is by now. He’s always going to take a lot of hits. That’s just how he plays. We’ve put an average-to-slightly above average OL in front of him at this point. Would it be nice to have 5 All Pro’s up and down the line? Absolutely. But he’d still take more hits than a lot of other QB’s because of his style.

Truth.

[NUGDUKWE]

(05-02-2022, 02:00 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Well yeah, ofc, but it seems like some of you still don’t realize what type of QB Burrow is by now. He’s always going to take a lot of hits. That’s just how he plays. We’ve put an average-to-slightly above average OL in front of him at this point. Would it be nice to have 5 All Pro’s up and down the line? Absolutely. But he’d still take more hits than a lot of other QB’s because of his style.

I don't know. He had shown a reluctance to give up on the play. But I think he was realizing when to throw it away later in the year. I think he's taken so many hits/sacks as a result of poor oline play as well as Taylor's long developing route designs he uses at times.

[*Go Cards*]

When a team drafts 31 or 32 they've basically got to keep up with the Jones in FA. Because obviously the draft is set up for parity with the worst teams getting the best players.

Collins, Karras, Cappa, and Hurst certainly helped the Bengals keep up with the Jones in a big way and should make the offense a juggernaut for our AFC foes to fear.

Then the draft brought in two 4.38 forty yard dash DB's. Then a 3T that looks like his frame can add plenty of weight quickly and dude gets sacks from the inside already.

Volson who does a lot of good things already and has NFL size too. Believe he will be a steal when its said and done.

Did not love the last two picks, but not going to hate on them either. Think the Bengals future looks very bright.

[Soonerpeace]

PFF has a 2023 Mock Draft up. They have the Raven’s picking 21 Cincy 22 Houston 23 ( via Cleveland?) GB 29 KC 30 . Chargers 26 Detroit 28 ( via ?) Miami 27 (via?)

[NUGDUKWE]

(05-02-2022, 01:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Since my statement is a fact I don't care if other people agree with it.

QBs getting injured by sacks almost never has anything to do with the number of sacks.  QBs get injured in the beginning of the season at the same rate they do later in the season.  If the nuber of sacks made any difference you would nto see any QBs injured early in the season but thenm they would all start dropping late in the season when the sacks added up.

The last year Andrew Luck played in the NFL he was only sacked 18 times in 639 for the LOWEST SACK RATE IN THE LEAGUE.

Almost all QB injuries come from sacks or getting hit behind the line. So yes I would say you want to limit the amount of sacks and hits to a QB to help prevent injury. The argument that a QB could get hurt on the 3rd sack just as likely as the 100th sack doesn't seem like a good argument as to why you shouldn't try and prevent sacks. 

I want Carman to succeed but I don't want to hand him the job. Last year I was confident in the dline but we still made a trade to bring in Hill and it proved valuable. I wanted to add a key piece in the draft for the oline that wasn't able to happen so I think we should still be looking to make some moves and we shouldn't be worried if that puts Carman back in a backup role. 

[fredtoast]

(05-02-2022, 08:31 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: we shouldn't be worried if that puts Carman back in a backup role. 

Yes we should because that would mean we wasted a second round draft pick by not giving him a chance to develop. 

No team can function very long without getting any production from draft picks. 

What if Carman turns out as good or better than the guy we signed or drafted?  That would be a waste of resources.

[NUGDUKWE]

(05-03-2022, 09:05 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes we should because that would mean we wasted a second round draft pick by not giving him a chance to develop. 

No team can function very long without getting any production from draft picks. 

What if Carman turns out as good or better than the guy we signed or drafted?  That would be a waste of resources.

I still think we need to add a vet OL to the team. I'd take Spain back but I'd prefer trying to bring in someone better. I think if we do bring someone in you don't bring a guy in to be a designated backup you bring them into start or battle Carman to start. I still don't think this means we would be giving up on Carman. When is the last time the offensive line stayed healthy and intact all year? If Carman started on the bench in all likelihood he would be getting some starts throughout the year.

[Whatever]

(05-02-2022, 08:31 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Almost all QB injuries come from sacks or getting hit behind the line. So yes I would say you want to limit the amount of sacks and hits to a QB to help prevent injury. The argument that a QB could get hurt on the 3rd sack just as likely as the 100th sack doesn't seem like a good argument as to why you shouldn't try and prevent sacks. 

I want Carman to succeed but I don't want to hand him the job. Last year I was confident in the dline but we still made a trade to bring in Hill and it proved valuable. I wanted to add a key piece in the draft for the oline that wasn't able to happen so I think we should still be looking to make some moves and we shouldn't be worried if that puts Carman back in a backup role. 

I'm confused, then, because Carman didn't allow a sack last year per PFF.  His big gaffes were in the run game.

I'm also confused about what you mean by not wanting Carman handed a starting job.  There are 5 guys competing for the LG spot (Carman, Smith, Hill, Volson, Adeniji).  

[Soonerpeace]

(05-03-2022, 10:15 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I still think we need to add a vet OL to the team. I'd take Spain back but I'd prefer trying to bring in someone better. I think if we do bring someone in you don't bring a guy in to be a designated backup you bring them into start or battle Carman to start. I still don't think this means we would be giving up on Carman. When is the last time the offensive line stayed healthy and intact all year? If Carman started on the bench in all likelihood he would be getting some starts throughout the year.

Need and can are different. We are like at the final stages. Can’t do much. Need to hold back for in season moves. All teams have concerns. I can assure you 90% have more depth issues than us.

[KillerGoose]

(05-02-2022, 08:08 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I don't know. He had shown a reluctance to give up on the play. But I think he was realizing when to throw it away later in the year. I think he's taken so many hits/sacks as a result of poor oline play as well as Taylor's long developing route designs he uses at times.

Taylor's route concepts are no longer than anyone else's. The Bengals run a modified offense of the Rams, essentially. Just like the Rams, there are built-in hot reads and check-downs. Burrow was just bad about utilizing them. This goes back to his playstyle. He would keep the play alive for a chance at a bigger play down the field rather than dump it off short. Most NFL offenses run similar plays with slight modifications. Taylor isn't doing anything different than anyone else. 

[NUGDUKWE]

(05-03-2022, 10:41 AM)Whatever Wrote: I'm confused, then, because Carman didn't allow a sack last year per PFF.  His big gaffes were in the run game.

I'm also confused about what you mean by not wanting Carman handed a starting job.  There are 5 guys competing for the LG spot (Carman, Smith, Hill, Volson, Adeniji).  

This is were stats lose me sometimes. Go back and watch week 17 against KC when Carman had to come in at LG. It was against Chris Jones but he was getting ran past and straight up ran over. Did he not technically give up a sack in that mess? I suppose that's up for debate. 

Sports writers that cover the Bengals say LG is a question mark. Now I'm not saying that makes me right or they can't be wrong. But why not add as more pieces if we can and just make it less of a question.

[XenoMorph]

(05-03-2022, 12:53 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: This is were stats lose me sometimes. Go back and watch week 17 against KC when Carman had to come in at LG. It was against Chris Jones but he was getting ran past and straight up ran over. Did he not technically give up a sack in that mess? I suppose that's up for debate. 

Sports writers that cover the Bengals say LG is a question mark. Now I'm saying that makes me right or they can't be wrong. But why not add as more pieces if we can and just make it less of a question.

Prices for FA's go down after the draft....

[NUGDUKWE]

(05-03-2022, 12:54 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Prices for FA's go down after the draft....

I figured we'd be waiting until after the draft. Making all the debating even more pointless when there is still plenty of time for moves and we don't know what the final roster is yet.

[XenoMorph]

(05-03-2022, 12:58 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I figured we'd be waiting until after the draft. Making all the debating even more pointless when there is still plenty of time for moves and we don't know what the final roster is yet.

right someone for our 53 might still be on another teams roster atm..

[BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI]

(05-01-2022, 12:11 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I’ll play that game. Based on availability who would you have taken first, second, or third and started? We don’t draft Hill. Who replaces Bates or Bell if they go down? Who replaces Hilton? You see Hill is the immediate backup for all 3. He’s going to play a lot in 3 safety packages. So at 31 and 60 who do you draft that starts? You are right we don’t have a backup at WR or TE but it’s just robbing Peter to pay Paul if we’d have drafted a TE or WR early. Then no DT backup. See what I mean?

I can live with the first two picks and the fourth-round pick Volson.  The third is a BIG TIME ???, and was a 6 or 7th round pick or we could have got him as a UDFA.  I'm baffled why we picked him. We still could pick up Ogunjobi who is on sale now....  

For our 3rd pick, we should have picked up a TE. Still available TEs were Koler, Likely, and Ruckert.  We needed secondary help so we got it. Volson is a "glass eater" he can play OG/OT. He is coming off a National Championship team, so hopefully, he'll bring that winning attitude to the locker room. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-03-2022, 05:43 PM)BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI Wrote: I can live with the first two picks and the fourth-round pick Volson.  The third is a BIG TIME ???, and was a 6 or 7th round pick or we could have got him as a UDFA.  I'm baffled why we picked him. We still could pick up Ogunjobi who is on sale now....  

For our 3rd pick, we should have picked up a TE. Still available TEs were Koler, Likely, and Ruckert.  We needed secondary help so we got it. Volson is a "glass eater" he can play OG/OT. He is coming off a National Championship team, so hopefully, he'll bring that winning attitude to the locker room. 

We needed a pass rushing 3-tech more than a TE in the 3rd. Carter most likely will be used like BJ Hill was last year with Larry O
who is injured right now and that is a big reason he didn't get that monster contract and is not getting looks. Zachary Carter is a 
very good pass rusher and that was on the outside. He can gain weight and do the same on the inside behind BJ Hill and get a lot
more snaps than even Kolar who I really liked as a rookie.

[BFritz21]

(05-02-2022, 01:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Having a bad O-line does not get your QB killed any more than having a great line saves the QB.  Last year Burrow was not injured behind an o-line that allowed the most sacks in team history.  In 2005 Carson Palmer was injured behind an o-line that allowed the fewest sacks in team history.

Considering that we have solid players at 4 of the 5 starting o-line positions I would go with the second year player over the rookie.  With me it is more about winning a championship than trying to reach the impossible fantasy goal of zero sacks allowed.

Are you serious?! 

This might be the funniest post I've ever seen on here!

I'd mention what kind of post it really is, but somehow it's ok for you to insult me but not the other way around........

The worse a line is, the more a quarterback gets sacked and gets hit. A quarterback generally doesn't get injured unless he gets sacked or hit and a bad offensive line means your quarterback gets sacked or hit more, so please explain to me how having a bad offensive line doesn't get your quarterback hurt more.

(05-02-2022, 01:45 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote: That is an idiotic statement that almost no-one would agree with.  Every hit the QB takes is another chance at a potential injury.  You want him taking as few hits as possible.

Fixed it for ya 

(05-02-2022, 01:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Since my statement is a fact I don't care if other people agree with it.

QBs getting injured by sacks almost never has anything to do with the number of sacks.  QBs get injured in the beginning of the season at the same rate they do later in the season.  If the nuber of sacks made any difference you would nto see any QBs injured early in the season but thenm they would all start dropping late in the season when the sacks added up.

The last year Andrew Luck played in the NFL he was only sacked 18 times in 639 for the LOWEST SACK RATE IN THE LEAGUE.

How is that a fact? It defies all logic and reason.

How do you think quarterbacks get hurt?