The Current State of the OL Room

[OSUfan]

(05-12-2022, 09:41 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I felt Carman regressed. not sure if it was his ability or coaching hurt him not helped him last year.. but he needs to improve quick if he is starter next year

You need to use perspective in this situation. Carman played LT at Clemson. He was brought into the Bengals organization and worked in many different positions as a means of evaluation and an attempt to put the 5 best linemen on the field. So while trying to learn a new position like guard he was also being moved from left to right. There should be some curve expected in this situation.

I think maybe we should give the young man a bit more of a chance before we doom him forever or categorize him as having regressed. How do you actually regress in a position you hadn't played?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-13-2022, 12:54 PM)OSUfan Wrote: You need to use perspective in this situation. Carman played LT at Clemson. He was brought into the Bengals organization and worked in many different positions as a means of evaluation and an attempt to put the 5 best linemen on the field. So while trying to learn a new position like guard he was also being moved from left to right. There should be some curve expected in this situation.

I think maybe we should give the young man a bit more of a chance before we doom him forever or categorize him as having regressed. How do you actually regress in a position you hadn't played?

Truth. 

[AtomicBlaze]

(05-13-2022, 12:54 PM)OSUfan Wrote: You need to use perspective in this situation. Carman played LT at Clemson. He was brought into the Bengals organization and worked in many different positions as a means of evaluation and an attempt to put the 5 best linemen on the field. So while trying to learn a new position like guard he was also being moved from left to right. There should be some curve expected in this situation.

I think maybe we should give the young man a bit more of a chance before we doom him forever or categorize him as having regressed. How do you actually regress in a position you hadn't played?

 I don't blame Carman, I blame Mike Brown for drafting him in the first place about 2 rounds too early with no backup plan.  Why were we depending on a rookie coming off back surgery who never played a position before and came to camp overweight.  Not to mention we had a QB coming off very serious knee surgery.  The whole scenario showed how incompetent our front office is when it comes to the OL and for those of you who think Carman will save us again, I hope for Joe Burrows sake you are right.

[007BengalsFan]

(05-13-2022, 05:54 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote:  I don't blame Carman, I blame Mike Brown for drafting him in the first place about 2 rounds too early with no backup plan.  Why were we depending on a rookie coming off back surgery who never played a position before and came to camp overweight.  Not to mention we had a QB coming off very serious knee surgery.  The whole scenario showed how incompetent our front office is when it comes to the OL and for those of you who think Carman will save us again, I hope for Joe Burrows sake you are right.

I dont think Carman is going to save anyone.   I bet Carman eventually ends up sitting on the bench due to back issues while we rely on someone else at LG. 

The best alternative is we sign Tretter and move Karras to LG and that solves any question mark regarding the Oline. 

[fredtoast]

(05-13-2022, 05:54 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote:   Why were we depending on a rookie coming off back surgery who never played a position before and came to camp overweight.

I guess you don't remember what happened. Xavier Su'a-filo who had 58 NFL starts was our starting RG.  Carman was not drafted to start.  

[fredtoast]

(05-13-2022, 06:55 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: I dont think Carman is going to save anyone.   I bet Carman eventually ends up sitting on the bench due to back issues while we rely on someone else at LG. 

I admit it is a possibility that Carman washes out due to back problems, but there is no real evidence that would cause me to "bet on it".

I don't see any way they release Hopkins if Carman was out with a bad back.  Or else they would have signed someone else.

What is it that convinces you that it is a "probability" instead of just a "possibility"?

[Essex Johnson]

(05-13-2022, 12:14 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Regressed from what? He’s had 6 starts in the NFL. There’s barely a baseline.

yes, he started games 3,4, 5, 7,8 . never started again till our backup last game against Cleveland.. he got the chance to take the job and was benched mid season.. so regressed i would say is a very good analyze of 1st year...

[Essex Johnson]

(05-13-2022, 12:54 PM)OSUfan Wrote: You need to use perspective in this situation. Carman played LT at Clemson. He was brought into the Bengals organization and worked in many different positions as a means of evaluation and an attempt to put the 5 best linemen on the field. So while trying to learn a new position like guard he was also being moved from left to right. There should be some curve expected in this situation.

I think maybe we should give the young man a bit more of a chance before we doom him forever or categorize him as having regressed. How do you actually regress in a position you hadn't played?

by giving the starting job and getting benched mid season once you got the job.. he was drafted in 2nd round, they totally had expectations for him to compete for starting job.   I don;t see anything in my post that said he is doomed I stated he did not seem to improve through the year and it seems from the roster depth he is probably going to be a starting guard and does need to to improve as we head into the season..

[Nicomo Cosca]

(05-13-2022, 10:27 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: yes, he started games 3,4, 5, 7,8 . never started again till our backup last game against Cleveland.. he got the chance to take the job and was benched mid season.. so regressed i would say is a very good analyze of 1st year...

Not really.

There’s nothing to regress from when you’re bad right out of the gate. And he only got to start due to injuries to XSF and Adeniji.

[fredtoast]

(05-13-2022, 10:27 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote:  he got the chance to take the job and was benched mid season.. so regressed

(05-13-2022, 10:31 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: by giving the starting job and getting benched mid season 

I think the Bengals are the first NFL team to "bench" a player by having him taken off the field on a cart.

Shocking that a 2nd round pick would "regress" so much that he could not even walk off the field.

[AtomicBlaze]

(05-14-2022, 12:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I think the Bengals are the first NFL team to "bench" a player by having him taken off the field on a cart.

Shocking that a 2nd round pick would "regress" so much that he could not even walk off the field.

He did regress because of a back injury that was very predictable based on the fact that he just had surgery and was rushed back.  This is exactly why he is completely unreliable, we will never know when his back pain will flare up again.  The back injury may explain poor performance and lack of preparation because of missed practices and the inability for full contact in practices.  If Jackson Carman did not have this injury I would be ok with giving him a shot at being starting LG, last thing we need to have is LG who can't play every week and can't build any chemistry with the same starting 5.  This is why I want Spain back, there is just no reason to take this risk when we have perfectly capable and affordable Guard we can get in free agency.

[fredtoast]

(05-14-2022, 01:24 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote: He did regress because of a back injury that was very predictable based on the fact that he just had surgery and was rushed back.  This is exactly why he is completely unreliable, we will never know when his back pain will flare up again.  The back injury may explain poor performance and lack of preparation because of missed practices and the inability for full contact in practices.  If Jackson Carman did not have this injury I would be ok with giving him a shot at being starting LG, last thing we need to have is LG who can't play every week and can't build any chemistry with the same starting 5.  This is why I want Spain back, there is just no reason to take this risk when we have perfectly capable and affordable Guard we can get in free agency.

You lost me when you said you wanted Spain back.

If injury issues is the only reason you don't want Carmen back then you would not want Spain who is also recovering from injury issues.

[AtomicBlaze]

(05-14-2022, 02:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You lost me when you said you wanted Spain back.

If injury issues is the only reason you don't want Carmen back then you would not want Spain who is also recovering from injury issues.

Depends on the injury what injury is he recovering from?  If it is a back injury then yes it is a no go.

[fredtoast]

(05-14-2022, 04:40 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote: Depends on the injury what injury is he recovering from?  If it is a back injury then yes it is a no go.

What is so special about a back injury?

Rob Gronkowski was a 3 time All-Pro after back surgery.

[TecmoBengals]

(05-14-2022, 06:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: What is so special about a back injury?

Rob Gronkowski was a 3 time All-Pro after back surgery.

What does Rob Gronkowski have to do with Jackson Carman's back health?

[Essex Johnson]

(05-13-2022, 10:31 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Not really.

There’s nothing to regress from when you’re bad right out of the gate. And he only got to start due to injuries to XSF and Adeniji.

sorry he was drafted to start little doubt they gave him a chance to achieve that.. he had a the opportunity in his grasp and did not accomplish it.. funny if his name was Price, many would be saying the same thing I am... hmmmm

[OSUfan]

(05-13-2022, 05:54 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote:  I don't blame Carman, I blame Mike Brown for drafting him in the first place about 2 rounds too early with no backup plan.  Why were we depending on a rookie coming off back surgery who never played a position before and came to camp overweight.  Not to mention we had a QB coming off very serious knee surgery.  The whole scenario showed how incompetent our front office is when it comes to the OL and for those of you who think Carman will save us again, I hope for Joe Burrows sake you are right.

Oh lordy here we go with trashing of the front office and the Mike Brown bashing. That Damn Mike Brown and drafting Jamarr Chase. We were not depending on a rookie and not even sure where you came up with that narrative.

[AtomicBlaze]

(05-14-2022, 07:59 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Oh lordy here we go with trashing of the front office and the Mike Brown bashing. That Damn Mike Brown and drafting Jamarr Chase. We were not depending on a rookie and not even sure where you came up with that narrative.

Lord forbid we criticize, maybe they should have done a better job protecting Joe Burrow.  That OL has been horrible a long time, they should have done more and maybe the Bengals would be Super Bowl champs right now, who knows if we ever get that chance again.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(05-14-2022, 06:55 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: sorry he was drafted to start little doubt they gave him a chance to achieve that.. he had a the opportunity in his grasp and did not accomplish it.. funny if his name was Price, many would be saying the same thing I am... hmmmm

I have no idea what correlation you think you’re making here? That both guys suck? Well no shit. Again - the point is it’s not regression if he was always bad. He was 3rd on the depth chart during all of TC and the PS. You’re really reaching trying to blame his poor play on anyone but him (ie coaching).

[Mike M (the other one)]

(05-14-2022, 06:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: What is so special about a back injury?

Rob Gronkowski was a 3 time All-Pro after back surgery.

are you saying Carman and Gronk have the exact same back surgery?

I guess it's possible, highly unlikely, but you could finally be right....