The Current State of the OL Room

[fredtoast]

(05-14-2022, 10:33 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: are you saying Carman and Gronk have the exact same back surgery?

I guess it's possible, highly unlikely, but you could finally be right....

I am saying that NONE OF US know much of anything about Carman's back condition.  All we can do is treat it like any other injury.  So Spain and Carmen are both returning from injury.

The free agent center that so many people here want to sign (Tretter) is over 30 and his knees were so bad last year that he did not even practice.

[grampahol]

(05-15-2022, 10:59 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I am saying that NONE OF US know much of anything about Carman's back condition.  All we can do is treat it like any other injury.  So Spain and Carmen are both returning from injury.

The free agent center that so many people here want to sign (Tretter) is over 30 and his knees were so bad last year that he did not even practice.

True, true Fred..I'm over 30 and haven't practiced in forever.. The Bengals should still pay me a few million anyway just because.. 

[OSUfan]

(05-14-2022, 10:33 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: are you saying Carman and Gronk have the exact same back surgery?

I guess it's possible, highly unlikely, but you could finally be right....

On the same token how can someone say that the injury of Carman is worse than that of Gronk?

[Sled21]

Bottom line is no one here knows what Carman's back issue really is. I suspect he had a herniated disk and had spinal fusion, but that's a guess. Either way, it was admirable how he finished his college career before having the surgery, and no one should really expect him to be 100% over an off season. We've all seen him flash, and according to the coaches, his biggest problem is consistency, which IMO goes along with how his back is feeling on a particular day. I expect big things from him this season, he moved back to the left side where he is more natural, and he has a year under his belt as a guard. Another camp with Pollack teaching him and the other linemen pushing him for playing time, I think he will be much better this year. Either way, it' his position to lose right now and we should at least give him a chance before writing him off.

[fredtoast]

(05-14-2022, 06:55 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: sorry he was drafted to start 

Sorry, but he wasn't.  They gave him some snaps with the first team to see what he had, and they said he would have a "chance to compete" for the starting spot (which they say about alomst every high pick) but at the beginning of training camp Spain and Su'a-Filo were first string.

[Soonerpeace]

(05-15-2022, 04:48 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote:   I just want the Bengals to do everything possible to win the SB while we have many of our star players under rookie deals.  I don't feel like they are doing that at the moment unless they sign a few more pieces, or at least spend up to the salary cap.  The AFC is so loaded, we cannot expect to beat teams at the end of the season if we have depth problems, the back half of our schedule is brutal and we were extremely lucky last year with injuries.  We have absolutely no quality depth on the OL, the chances of this coming back to bite us is very high if we go into the season as is.  It is rare for the entire OL to get through a full season as we saw last year with our OL.  We are just 1 injury away from starting Adeniji again.

I wish we’d bolster our OL depth. All the teams have depth issues in some position groups but ours in the OL is worrisome.

[grampahol]

(05-15-2022, 05:15 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I wish we’d bolster our OL depth. All the teams have depth issues in some position groups but ours in the OL is worrisome.

You mean the same oline that got us to the superbowl minus a center with hinky knees and an old guard who may or may not be back later on plus 3 bona fide oline starters? I admit I suck at math, but that sounds like plus 2.75 from last year and some depth..

[AtomicBlaze]

(05-15-2022, 05:57 PM)grampahol Wrote: You mean the same oline that got us to the superbowl minus a center with hinky knees and an old guard who may or may not be back later on plus 3 bona fide oline starters? I admit I suck at math, but that sounds like plus 2.75 from last year and some depth..

 I think we improved the starters but the depth seems about the same to me.

[3wt]

(05-12-2022, 02:18 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: What character issues are you talking about 3wt? La'el? He is the only one that has ever had them on this OL?

Not La'el's, Carmen's.   He has a history of being lazy and arrogant.  I know someone who has served him in a local business, and he is not impressed by Carmen's character.   

So my hope is he sees what's up and changes his attitude.   It's typically unlikely for people to change their personality flaws (I am a prime example).  I truly hope he is one where the dime drops.

[fredtoast]

(06-01-2022, 03:03 PM)3wt Wrote: He has a history of being lazy and arrogant.  I know someone who has served him in a local business, and he is not impressed by Carmen's character.   

I don't think he has a history of being lay and arrogant.  I keep hearing people make that claim, but no one can ever give me a surce.

As for anecdotal evidence from a server that does not mean a lot to me.  I have had a lot of servers who I did not like.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-01-2022, 03:03 PM)3wt Wrote: Not La'el's, Carmen's.   He has a history of being lazy and arrogant.  I know someone who has served him in a local business, and he is not impressed by Carmen's character.   

So my hope is he sees what's up and changes his attitude.   It's typically unlikely for people to change their personality flaws (I am a prime example).  I truly hope he is one where the dime drops.

Really? Never heard that before, I know Carman showed up out of shape last year but that probably had to do with his back 
issue where it is nearly impossible to workout. Never heard him being arrogant either, hope he works on this if true.

(06-01-2022, 04:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't think he has a history of being lay and arrogant.  I keep hearing people make that claim, but no one can ever give me a surce.

As for anecdotal evidence from a server that does not mean a lot to me.  I have had a lot of servers who I did not like.

Have had the same from servers myself. Hope this isn't the case with Carman being arrogant, never like that in a person.

[casear2727]

(05-12-2022, 02:18 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Well said, no way we have stars all along the OL with all the stars we already have...

No team can afford that. We have added some damn good proven vets to the OL though which will make us much better.


Truth, same with La'el Collins. Dude was extremely talented but was an UDFA.

Who knows how good Cordell Volson will become or Jackson Carman if his back is alright.


Yes, all the OL we brought in are good pass blockers but are fantastic, mean, technically sound run blockers.

Our running game could be #1 in the NFL this season with these guys added. Already like Jonah, Carman and Volson's run 
blocking too. Glass eaters on down the line just like Pollack said he wanted.


What character issues are you talking about 3wt? La'el? He is the only one that has ever had them on this OL?


Yep, Defenses are no longer going to be able and just stop the run and pin their ears back and get after Burrow like the
last couple years. They will have to respect the run game and with better pass protection we just don't know how good Joe
Burrow can be, I have no idea how good this Offense can be honestly. Cannot wait.

(05-12-2022, 04:37 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: trey smith was a 6th round pick and started all 17 games for the chiefs. how the dude actually performs is all that matters. what round he was drafted in doesn't mean shit if he plays well. we took a lazy, out of shape, unmotivated lineman in the 2nd round last year. how did that work out?

To be fair LC and Trey Smith are aberrations. LC was easily a Top 10 pick if not for his GF being murdered. Smith was projected a 1st or early 2nd rounder from early in his college career until the medical issue surfaced.

[casear2727]

(05-13-2022, 06:55 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: I dont think Carman is going to save anyone.   I bet Carman eventually ends up sitting on the bench due to back issues while we rely on someone else at LG. 

The best alternative is we sign Tretter and move Karras to LG and that solves any question mark regarding the Oline. 

This post doesnt really make sense. Carmen at 23 with a back issue will be less reliable than Tretter at 31, who didnt practice on the field the entire last half of the 21 season with a bum knee and ankle? Tretter was great for a long time but he comes with a lot of question marks.

[007BengalsFan]

(06-01-2022, 09:47 PM)casear2727 Wrote: This post doesnt really make sense. Carmen at 23 with a back issue will be less reliable than Tretter at 31, who didnt practice on the field the entire last half of the 21 season with a bum knee and ankle? Tretter was great for a long time but he comes with a lot of question marks.

Im not sure what doesnt make sense. Tretter didnt miss a game last year because of injury, Carman did. Carman couldnt even play in the biggest game of a football players career, the Super Bowl. Would Tretter miss the Super Bowl because of his knee? Tretter hasnt missed a game because of injury since he has been with Cleveland. He has missed 1 game and that was because of Covid. He has been dealing with a bum knee for the past 2 or 3 seasons yet he is still out there every game playing at an elite level. Now, I dont know if Tretter would miss time because of injury but I have more faith in him being able to play than I do Carman. I would certainly sign Tretter to a 1 or 2 year contract if the price was right.

[casear2727]

(06-02-2022, 12:31 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Im not sure what doesnt make sense.  Tretter didnt miss a game last year because of injury, Carman did.  Carman couldnt even play in the biggest game of a football players career, the Super Bowl.  Would Tretter miss the Super Bowl because of his knee?  Tretter hasnt missed a game because of injury since he has been with Cleveland.  He has missed 1 game and that was because of Covid.  He has been dealing with a bum knee for the past 2 or 3 seasons yet he is still out there every game playing at an elite level.   Now, I dont know if Tretter would miss time because of injury but I have more faith in him being able to play than I do Carman.  I would certainly sign Tretter to a 1 or 2 year contract if the price was right.

There is a reason the Browns did not retain JC.  He struggled to finish the season with long term injuries.  Carmen had a surgery and is supposedly healthy and 8 years younger.

No doubt a healthy Tretter would be an upgrade but he is not and he hasnt been.  What would be the impact of him missing every practice, even if he did play in the games?  He would be our new center and we would need him at every practice and then some.

Tretter isnt playing for the vet minimum and with his great reputation why has no team signed him yet?  Tretter is the better player, but a much bigger risk in my opinion, especially with a 2 yr contract.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-01-2022, 09:44 PM)casear2727 Wrote: To be fair LC and Trey Smith are aberrations.   LC was easily a Top 10 pick if not for his GF being murdered. Smith was projected a 1st or early 2nd rounder from early in his college career until the medical issue surfaced.

True, who knows if Carman and Volson are aberrations too though. Carman had a bad back but he would of went earlier if not 
for the injury pretty damn sure and Volson might of went earlier if he was from a bigger school. There are reasons why even the
best fall, sometimes you have to gamble on that talent will out.

(06-01-2022, 09:47 PM)casear2727 Wrote: This post doesnt really make sense.  Carmen at 23 with a back issue will be less reliable than Tretter at 31, who didnt practice on the field the entire last half of the 21 season with a bum knee and ankle?  Tretter was great for a long time but he comes with a lot of question marks.

(06-03-2022, 05:47 PM)casear2727 Wrote: There is a reason the Browns did not retain JC.  He struggled to finish the season with long term injuries.  Carmen had a surgery and is supposedly healthy and 8 years younger.

No doubt a healthy Tretter would be an upgrade but he is not and he hasnt been.  What would be the impact of him missing every practice, even if he did play in the games?  He would be our new center and we would need him at every practice and then some.

Tretter isnt playing for the vet minimum and with his great reputation why has no team signed him yet?  Tretter is the better player, but a much bigger risk in my opinion, especially with a 2 yr contract.

Yes, from everything I have heard JC Tretter's knees are shot, both of them. 

Carman is at least young so he should recover from the back injury and from everything I am hearing the coaches and medical 
staff love what they are seeing from him this Offseason. Would rather have Karras at Center and either Carman, D'Ante or Volson
at LG over a guy like Tretter at Center never being able to practice cause of his shot knees and Karras at LG.

Just my preference. Carman or one of the other youngsters will be able to practice and gel with the other starters.

[Hammerstripes]

(06-03-2022, 05:57 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: True, who knows if Carman and Volson are aberrations too though. Carman had a bad back but he would of went earlier if not 
for the injury pretty damn sure and Volson might of went earlier if he was from a bigger school. There are reasons why even the
best fall, sometimes you have to gamble on that talent will out.



Yes, from everything I have heard JC Tretter's knees are shot, both of them. 

Carman is at least young so he should recover from the back injury and from everything I am hearing the coaches and medical 
staff love what they are seeing from him this Offseason. Would rather have Karras at Center and either Carman, D'Ante or Volson
at LG over a guy like Tretter at Center never being able to practice cause of his shot knees and Karras at LG.

Just my preference. Carman or one of the other youngsters will be able to practice and gel with the other starters.

I honestly don't think that was the case.  Even if healthy, I don't think he would have gone any higher than we took him.  

[Frank Booth]

(06-03-2022, 05:57 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: True, who knows if Carman and Volson are aberrations too though. Carman had a bad back but he would of went earlier if not 
for the injury.

Wrong. Bengals selected Carman where he would’ve went if his back wasn’t bad.

But his back was bad, and they reached

(This is my opinion)

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-03-2022, 06:03 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I honestly don't think that was the case.  Even if healthy, I don't think he would have gone any higher than we took him.  

Cool, before I heard about the injury I was fine with taking him at our pick. 

I thought at the time trading back and getting him while adding picks was fantastic and still do as long as Carman gets 
over the back injury. But if he doesn't we took the wrong dude and should of took Creed Humphrey who I liked better
than Carman at the time. The injury is the reason I have questions with the Carman pick, it isn't his play at Clemson.

Bottom line, to most everyone who knew about him he wasn't a reach and went right around where most that knew 
about him projected him to go. Getting more picks for him was ideal.

(06-03-2022, 06:49 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Wrong. Bengals selected Carman where he would’ve went if his back wasn’t bad.

But his back was bad, and they reached

(This is my opinion)

That is your opinion Frank and I am fine with it. Hope you are wrong though and Carman is over the injury and becomes 
one of the best road grading LG's in the game. Him playing LT is a boost as the only problems he ever had was against 
speed rushers on the edge. Playing at LG hides his only weakness unless some crazy speed comes off stunts.

I think the mistakes were taking a guy that was injured (especially the back) and moving him to the right side where he 
was clearly uncomfortable and that is on the coaches.

[Soonerpeace]

(06-03-2022, 05:47 PM)casear2727 Wrote: There is a reason the Browns did not retain JC.  He struggled to finish the season with long term injuries.  Carmen had a surgery and is supposedly healthy and 8 years younger.

No doubt a healthy Tretter would be an upgrade but he is not and he hasnt been.  What would be the impact of him missing every practice, even if he did play in the games?  He would be our new center and we would need him at every practice and then some.

Tretter isnt playing for the vet minimum and with his great reputation why has no team signed him yet?  Tretter is the better player, but a much bigger risk in my opinion, especially with a 2 yr contract.

This