Difference between 2015 team and 2021 team?

[*bfine32*]

(06-04-2022, 10:30 PM)J24 Wrote: People go out of the way to defend  the front office for not signing Whitworth and Zeitler but the truth is the front  didn't have a replacement for Z and they new  Cedric was an awful player. 

I have never seen anyone "go out of their way" to defend parting ways with Whit and/or Z. I have seen folks try to explain the logic behind in the moves when folks go "out of their way" to complain about it. 

The logic was sound, the results sucked..it happens. 

We all wish Whit and Z would have stayed, but last year would have been the only year it really might have mattered

[fredtoast]

Everyone is a genius with the benefit of hindsight.

Many of the same people who squeal abut not re-signing Whitworth at 33 also claim we should have traded away Geno, Dunlap, and Green when they were 29-30.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-04-2022, 10:30 PM)J24 Wrote: They should have franchised Whit in 2017 at the very least. They new Cedric was a terrible player and that's why the benched him in 2016. Plus they wanted to sign Whit but they were not prepared for a bidding war. The Front office handheld the situation like complete crap.

People go out of the way to defend  the front office for not signing Whitworth and Zeitler but the truth is the front  didn't have a replacement for Z and they new  Cedric was an awful player. 

Yep and set us back big time afterwards. Huge mistakes after huge mistakes. I thought we HAD to bring back Whit at the time 
and even I thought he might fall off faster than he did. Letting Zeit go was understandable he was way overpaid by the Stains.

But letting Whit go and Drafting Ogbuehi were the two of the biggest mistakes our FO has ever made and they did both right 
around the same time and it shown ineptitude. Happy we aren't doing this types of things anymore. The FO and coaches know
what they are doing now.

[J24]

(06-05-2022, 10:32 AM)Sled21 Wrote: That's because no one really expected Whit's play to not fall off drastically due to his age, and Zeitler got insane money from Cleveland. Do you really think the smart move is to pay an aging player who is at the point where most retire and give him a 3 year contract? They thought they had his replacement, they didn't. That does not mean it was a ad move, it just did not work out the way most would have thought and Whit beat father time for a while. If the Bengals had given him a huge 3 year deal, and paid Zeitler what Cleveland did, people would be blasting them for that as well. The front office just can't win with some fans.

Why did they have to sign Whit to a three year deal? They could have easily franchised him instead of let him hit the open market. Secondly they new Cedric sucked even Paul Alexander benched him in 2016. Everyone in the front office and fan Base new 2017 would have be a disaster if whit left.

Also they should have given Z a contract extension in 2016 and not let him hit the open market in 2017.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-05-2022, 05:27 PM)J24 Wrote: Why did they have to sign Whit to a three year deal? They could have easily franchised him instead of let him hit the open market. Secondly they new Cedric sucked even Paul Alexander benched him in 2016. Everyone in the front office and fan Base new 2017 would have be a disaster if whit left.

Also they should have given Z a contract extension in 2016 and not let him hit the open market in 2017.

Well, if Whit was unhappy with the FO before the 2015 season who knows if he would of even signed the Tag...

Kind of similar to Bates right now who as far as I know hasn't signed his yet.

True on letting Zeit's contract expire too early, they should of been working on a deal before that like you said to not let him hit 
the open market in 2017. Ogbuehi was clearly not the answer, I at least had hope for Fisher, too bad he had a heart problem.

[fredtoast]

(06-05-2022, 05:27 PM)J24 Wrote: Also they should have given Z a contract extension in 2016 and not let him hit the open market in 2017.

Zeitler was overpaid.  I doubt he would have taken less in 2016.

[fredtoast]

(06-05-2022, 05:27 PM)J24 Wrote: Why did they have to sign Whit to a three year deal? They could have easily franchised him instead of let him hit the open market.

He already told them he was going to refuse to play if he didn't get long term security. 

[QueenCity]

I'm going to take another route to this nonsense - the lousy road led to Burrow and a SB appearance.

Signing any of these players wins us perhaps another game or two each season and we still don't win sh**

[George Cantstandya]

Whit was a great player. Unfortunately his path in the NFL didn't correspond with what the Bengals were thinking his last years here. Hindsight and all of that.

[Frank Booth]

(06-05-2022, 05:19 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Happy we aren't doing this types of things anymore. The FO and coaches know what they are doing now.

You could argue having a 4th rounder and Carman battle it out for LG while a decent cheap Quentin Spain sits in free agency is sort of like a lesser version of the Ogbuehi/Fisher/Whitworth situation.

[fredtoast]

(06-05-2022, 06:41 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: You could argue having a 4th rounder and Carman battle it out for LG while a decent cheap Quentin Spain sits in free agency is sort of like a lesser version of the Ogbuehi/Fisher/Whitworth situation.

I also wanted us to re-sign Spain.  But now that it is June and no other team has even taken a look at him I don't think we can criticize the Bengals for not re-signing him.  He must not be fully recovered from his injury.

Over the last 6 seasons Spain is 21st in games played (88) and 27th in games started (84) among all NFL offensive linemen.  That is pretty impressive when you consider that there are 160 starting O-linemen every week in the NFL.

[Frank Booth]

(06-05-2022, 07:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I also wanted us to re-sign Spain.  But now that it is June and no other team has even taken a look at him I don't think we can criticize the Bengals for not re-signing him.  He must not be fully recovered from his injury.

Over the last 6 seasons Spain is 21st in games played (88) and 27th in games started (84) among all NFL offensive linemen.  That is pretty impressive when you consider that there are 160 starting O-linemen every week in the NFL.

Could still be injured, but I had read somewhere that there’s a lot of quality players who still haven’t been signed off free agency yet for whatever reason. Ndamukong Suh also remains a free agent

I think Spain will get signed somewhere before the season starts. Same with Suh

[fredtoast]

(06-05-2022, 07:35 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Could still be injured, but I had read somewhere that there’s a lot of quality players who still haven’t been signed off free agency yet for whatever reason. Ndamukong Suh also remains a free agent

I think Spain will get signed somewhere before the season starts. Same with Suh

This stat does not sound real, but in the 3 seasons from '17-'19 Spain started 45 games and only allowed 2 sacks.

[*jason*]

(06-05-2022, 06:21 PM)QueenCity Wrote: I'm going to take another route to this nonsense - the lousy road led to Burrow and a SB appearance.

Signing any of these players wins us perhaps another game or two each season and we still don't win sh**

This... Whitworth and Kevin Zeitler are spilled milk.

[*bengalfan74*]

(06-05-2022, 08:17 PM)jason Wrote: This... Whitworth and Kevin Zeitler are spilled milk.

Yep

Let it go

[jj22]

(06-05-2022, 08:52 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Yep

Let it go

Whit's the one still whining about it and or taking shots at the Bengals over how it ended every chance he gets. The high road... he has not found yet. 

[J24]

(06-05-2022, 05:31 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Well, if Whit was unhappy with the FO before the 2015 season who knows if he would of even signed the Tag...

Kind of similar to Bates right now who as far as I know hasn't signed his yet.

True on letting Zeit's contract expire too early, they should of been working on a deal before that like you said to not let him hit 
the open market in 2017. Ogbuehi was clearly not the answer, I at least had hope for Fisher, too bad he had a heart problem.

At the very least they could have gotten something for him if they tagged him. You don't let him hit the open market. 

[J24]

(06-05-2022, 06:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Zeitler was overpaid.  I doubt he would have taken less in 2016.

All free agents that hit the open market are overpaid. The time to sign him to reasonable contract was in the 2016 season. 

(06-05-2022, 06:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: He already told them he was going to refuse to play if he didn't get long term security. 

You don't let him hit the open market at the very least if you franchise him you can get a decent pick back. Also they would have had exclusive negotiating ability sign him to a longterm extension.

[fredtoast]

(06-05-2022, 10:40 PM)J24 Wrote: All free agents that hit the open market are overpaid. The time to sign him to reasonable contract was in the 2016 season. 

These guys have a good idea of what they want.  Zeitler wanted more than the Bengals were willing to pay.  There is nno evidence he would have taken a lot less the year before.

We just went through this with Bates.  Every team in the NFL goes through the same thing with every player that becomes a free agent.  If it was a simple as you claim than no team would ever have a decent player become a free agent.

[puddycat]

Whit was a 34 yr. old OT who had never hit free agency b/c he always signed extensions while still under contract. The Bengals made a "business" decision letting him hit free agency where somebody made a bigger offer. The team can't expect a player to play out his contract and then expect that same player to forget that free agency is a thing.
I don't care what a player says to the front office so long as they keep it out of the locker room. I'm not going to point fingers at players when it happens b/c I know that the front office meddles with the locker room because of management politics ALL THE TIME.