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(08-13-2022, 03:03 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Can you produce a single quote or article suggesting Carman was Pollack’s guy?
The fact that Mike Brown was not interested in any other players. If he was really doing his own scouting he would be asking about others. It is pretty obvious that Mike had already been told that Carman was one of our favorites.
Mike Brown doesn't scout. What gave you the idea that he does?
It makes no sense that Mike would not even talk to a guy like Paul alexander until AFTER he had already made up his mind. What would be the point of that?
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(08-13-2022, 03:08 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The fact that Mike Brown was not interested in any other players. If he was really doing his own scouting he would be asking about others. It is pretty obvious that Mike had already been told that Carman was one of our favorites.
Mike Brown doesn't scout. What gave you the idea that he does?
How much “scouting” does one really have to do on a top 50 pick from a school like Clemson? Mike Brown probably said I want the Cincinnati kid that played LT for Trevor Lawrence and that was the end of it.
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(08-13-2022, 12:06 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I didn’t see the game but you all are STF out of me where o-line is concerned.
I did watch. It was horrible, particularly with both of our backups at Tackle. Additionally, Carman did not live up to the beat writer's camp hype, still with the poor hand placement and confusion when the defense does anything other than meet him straight forward. Volson did some good things, but also showed his rookie, small school pedigree needs quite a bit of polish, before he's ready for the big show. Just pray that Karras doesn't get injured this season, because Hill still needs plenty of development as well.
Edit: Oh, and the Thad Moss experiment should be officially over now..
Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations
-Frank Booth 1/9/23
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(08-13-2022, 03:08 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It makes no sense that Mike would not even talk to a guy like Paul alexander until AFTER he had already made up his mind. What would be the point of that?
Possibly some dissent from within his own building on taking him? Wanting some backup/reassurance. We know for a fact Marvin didn’t want Ross, why is it hard to believe he’d go over a completely unproven coach (at the time) in Taylor, or an assistant position coach?
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WTF are we arguing about? Pollack has had a fine career as an oline coach. But he must also take ownership of the bad picks. If we're drafting olinemen without the blessing of an oline coach who has been doing it for 17 years; then I'd be very surprised.
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I'm not giving Pollack credit for the Dallas line. We all know who had that line the best in the league and he's in Cleveland coaching and developing their line. His track record you can point to. Dallas fans will tell you he was handed the keys to a Lamborghini and drove it into a ditch.
I think you guys bought into all the practice equipment, gadgets, drills, and "reps" Pollack supposedly brings with him at every stop (MB spent millions on all that extra equipment for him). Sooner or later we are going to have to see something come from it. It's not just Carmen. It's Adeneji, Hill, Fred, Prince, Price, Hart, Fisher, Ogbuehi. He hasn't got anything out of any of them under his tutelage. Spain had his "best year" under him but can't get a job... I'm not impressed and need to see more.
![[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]](https://i.imgur.com/4CV0TeR.png)
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I can find no direct quote from either Brown and Pollack on Carman so any guessing is speculation on how the pick played out and it would be total logic that the camp of Brown/Taylor/Pollack would be looking at a guard/tackle in the 2nd and skip on Penei if they had already made up their mind on Chase....
In the end it is up to coaches to help the players improve not Mike Brown with Pollack being the line coach it falls on him more than Taylor to improve young players with all the additions of quality FA and multiple young players he will have for last two years, if we don;t see noticeable improvement even if we win by the Oline be interesting to see if ownership has shifted from holding on to coaches when their position plays below expectations. I hope Pollack succeeds since we might not be able to overcome another bad year by the Oline
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(08-13-2022, 01:01 PM)jj22 Wrote: Pollack has to be on the hot seat at this point. Even if the starting Oline improves, you have to wonder if it is because they gained experience and development elsewhere. Who has Pollack developed.
We have a few fans who love to trash the end product (player) but ignore Pollack's job is to develop a cohesive 1st and 2nd team OL.
Our back ups were horrible last night. Yes, it is preseason, but that was the most disappointing position group because most of them got experience in 2021.
I liked Hill and Carter. I also thought Pryor did a lot of great things at WR, but did not see how he performed on special teams. The entire punt team was horrible so if he was a part of that group, nt good.
The 4th string QB threw a great ball. I want to see Pryor and him against 1st and 2nd team next week so how they perform. Taylor also flashed, Patrick did not play until late, he needs to get lower and bowl defenders over so they are punished if they try and go low.
2024 may go on record as one of most underperforming teams in Bengal history. Bengal's FO has major work to do on defensive side of the ball. I say tag and trade Tee Higgins in 2025 to start with the rebuild.
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(08-13-2022, 03:23 PM)bfine32 Wrote: WTF are we arguing about? Pollack has had a fine career as an oline coach. But he must also take ownership of the bad picks. If we're drafting olinemen without the blessing of an oline coach who has been doing it for 17 years; then I'd be very surprised.
They drafted Ross without the blessing of a 14 year Head Coach, but sure, there’s no precedent of that with this franchise…
Anyway, this FO has earned zero benefit of the doubt from me when it comes to drafting OL in recent years. Jonah was pretty can’t miss being the first one off the board his draft year, and coming from Alabama.
It would be nice to start finding some Whit’s and Boling’s again.
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Jackson Carman was shocking. I know he was real bad last year so really you can only go up, especially at that age. But man, oh man, it looks as though he didn't improve at all and potentially even regressed. You are only as strong as your weakest link, and all those moves to solidify the right side of the line will be for nothing if the LG is a turnstile and collapsing in Burrow's face every passing down.
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(08-13-2022, 04:19 PM)jj22 Wrote: I'm not giving Pollack credit for the Dallas line. We all know who had that line the best in the league and he's in Cleveland coaching and developing their line. His track record you can point to. Dallas fans will tell you he was handed the keys to a Lamborghini and drove it into a ditch.
I think you guys bought into all the practice equipment, gadgets, drills, and "reps" Pollack supposedly brings with him at every stop (MB spent millions on all that extra equipment for him). Sooner or later we are going to have to see something come from it. It's not just Carmen. It's Adeneji, Hill, Fred, Prince, Price, Hart, Fisher, Ogbuehi. He hasn't got anything out of any of them under his tutelage. Spain had his "best year" under him but can't get a job... I'm not impressed and need to see more.
We’re really reaching now if we’re blaming him for not getting anything out of those two (who he inherited). Particularly Fisher - who was so bad he literally tried to convert to TE.
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(08-13-2022, 04:19 PM)jj22 Wrote: It's not just Carmen. It's Adeneji, Hill, Fred, Prince, Price, Hart, Fisher, Ogbuehi. He hasn't got anything out of any of them under his tutelage.
You forgot Christian Westerman and Alex Redmond. Pollack was the reason those guys were not good either.
Apparently, he ruins them so badly that no other coach can ever fix them.
Hell, Pollack even made Ogbuehi suck before he ever coached him. That is a special level of bad coaching.
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(08-13-2022, 03:12 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: How much “scouting” does one really have to do on a top 50 pick from a school like Clemson? Mike Brown probably said I want the Cincinnati kid that played LT for Trevor Lawrence and that was the end of it.
Love Chad rocking the Dead shirt.
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(08-14-2022, 03:14 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Love Chad rocking the Dead shirt.
Grateful Dead is just a fashion brand at this point. I have friends who wear the shirts and they can’t name 1 song. It’s just for vanity
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Winning makes believers of us all
They didn't win and we don't beleive
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(08-14-2022, 05:53 PM)pally Wrote:
Bigger ball and doesn't have the white stripes on the side. 
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Dline had some surprise players that flashed (Domenique Davis -72, Raymond Johnson III-69)
It's going to be hard to cut down to 9 or even 10.
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Have no idea what PFF grades mean for a preseason game, but here were the PFF grades for the top 5 on offense and top 5 on defense:
Top 5 offense
WR Kendric Pryor: 92.5
WR Trent Taylor: 87.1
RB Jacques Patrick: 78.8
OG Cordell Volson: 74.8
TE Scotty Washington: 69.9
[from article quoted]
"Some pretty interesting marks right here. Pryor’s making what was thought to be a settled wideout spot pretty interesting and Taylor’s nearly a lock given his use on special teams. Then there’s Volson, who is about to get first-team reps after Jackson Carman’s struggles."
Top 5 defense
LB Clarence Hicks: 83.1
CB Abu Daramy-Swaray: 77.6
LB Keandre Jones: 70.2
S Dax Hill: 69.6
CB Jalen Davis: 69.5
https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/lists/bengals-pff-grades-best-worst-players-preseason-opener-cardinals/
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(08-14-2022, 08:43 PM)Nepa Wrote: Have no idea what PFF grades mean for a preseason game, but here were the PFF grades for the top 5 on offense and top 5 on defense:
Top 5 offense
WR Kendric Pryor: 92.5
WR Trent Taylor: 87.1
RB Jacques Patrick: 78.8
OG Cordell Volson: 74.8
TE Scotty Washington: 69.9
[from article quoted]
"Some pretty interesting marks right here. Pryor’s making what was thought to be a settled wideout spot pretty interesting and Taylor’s nearly a lock given his use on special teams. Then there’s Volson, who is about to get first-team reps after Jackson Carman’s struggles."
Top 5 defense
LB Clarence Hicks: 83.1
CB Abu Daramy-Swaray: 77.6
LB Keandre Jones: 70.2
S Dax Hill: 69.6
CB Jalen Davis: 69.5
https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/lists/bengals-pff-grades-best-worst-players-preseason-opener-cardinals/
Didn't we cut Swaray today?
2024 may go on record as one of most underperforming teams in Bengal history. Bengal's FO has major work to do on defensive side of the ball. I say tag and trade Tee Higgins in 2025 to start with the rebuild.
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Jackson Carman Wont make the final 53
If only we had an OL coach that could coach up players
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