7 Winners & 3 Losers From Week 2 Against The Giants

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-22-2022, 01:48 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Allen mouthed "its a comeback" or something of the sort, it is impossible to know what the screwup was... there are many other passes to be concerned about with BA though.

The really funny part was the next play when he over-threw him by about 16 yards. 

[BengalsBong]

(08-22-2022, 05:45 PM)Tomkat Wrote: How does anyone EVEN MAKE IT TO THE NFL, while performing that badly?

With friends.

[BengalsBong]

(08-22-2022, 05:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Brandon Allen posted an 82.0 passer rating over 176 attempts in '19 and '20 with the Bengals.  That is better than most back up QBs.

With a 6.1 career AVG he throws all short passes and does not push the ball down the field.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-22-2022, 10:28 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Volson has 101 snaps through the preseason so far.
A full season for a starter is ~1000 snaps.

So if he had a full season like he's performed in the preseason, we'd be looking at 10 sacks, 30 total pressures.

By no definition is that good.

Do I think Volson would be given that many reps if he was allowing that kind of pressure and sacks through the first 4-6 games? 
No, but he hasn't exactly been the epitome of good through this preseason.

I would like to see this compared with every decent rookie starting on the OL in the NFL instead of Joe Frickin' Thuney 
though for God sake...

I honestly don't know what a lot of you guys were expecting...

He played better than I expected in his first action against NFL starters. 

I thought he would struggle more than he did early. Carman also didn't play near as bad as others have said.

Prince was terrible in his one start, Adeniji terrible in his first start and so was Trey Hill. D'Ante had a couple bad penalties.

[BengalsBong]

(08-22-2022, 06:10 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: disagree, the Oline killed most of any chance of a rhythm and he was under pressure alot....sure Allen some some  missed passes but couple were timing differences with Thomas, he also had some nice passes too finally when Oline  did not shot ourselves in the foot 2nd half, he had a solid drive.  I perfer a conservative veteran with a good offense than a rookie throwing into triple coverage , or against his body into middle of field which is what I saw of Browning last nite with presser..

He has yet to really play with 1st team last year and this preseason, hopefully they put some starters on the line for the Rams for him

You listened to the game on the radio I see. Most likely a Giants broadcast. He had a clean pocket for 80 to 90 % of the game in the first half.

[TheFan]

(08-22-2022, 10:09 PM)Whatever Wrote: For comparison's sake, Joe Thuney had PFF's highest Pass Block grade by a G last year at 88.8.  He allowed a 2.13% pressure percentage.  

They originally credited Volson with 1 sack and 2 pressures allowed on 40 pass block snaps.  That's a 7.5% pressure percentage.  That's bad.  

I had him for a sack and a pressure allowed in the first half, so fatigue wasn't his only issue.

A big thing people are overlooking is that the team allowed 16 total pressures, so three of those out of those being on Volson is right in line with the rest of the OL.  He didn't stand out as bad because everyone else was just as bad.  However, we're not discussing any of those guys for a starting job.

I don't really care about how he compared to a good 6 year starter. But what was he compared to Spain last year? If Volson is the worst starter on our line I think we'll be okay. If he's in the top 2 we are screwed. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(08-22-2022, 10:44 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I would like to see this compared with every decent rookie starting on the OL in the NFL instead of Joe Frickin' Thuney 
though for God sake...

I honestly don't know what a lot of you guys were expecting...

He played better than I expected in his first action against NFL starters. 

Right?

I’m NOT saying Volson will ever be anywhere near as good, but does anyone remember Sewell’s preseason last year? He was terrible. And by the 2nd half of the season he was playing like a top OT. Granted, Volson obviously doesn’t have the pedigree of a Penei Sewell, but still. It’s so hard to tell anything from the preseason.

And like you said, we should be comparing Volson to other rookies, not top veterans.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(08-22-2022, 10:51 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Right?

I’m NOT saying Volson will ever be anywhere near as good, but does anyone remember Sewell’s preseason last year? He was terrible. And by the 2nd half of the season he was playing like a top OT. Granted, Volson obviously doesn’t have the pedigree of a Penei Sewell, but still. It’s so hard to tell anything from the preseason.

And like you said, we should be comparing Volson to other rookies, not top veterans.

Great point.

So,  how about we compare him to Carman from last  year?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-22-2022, 10:51 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Right?

I’m NOT saying Volson will ever be anywhere near as good, but does anyone remember Sewell’s preseason last year? He was terrible. And by the 2nd half of the season he was playing like a top OT. Granted, Volson obviously doesn’t have the pedigree of a Penei Sewell, but still. It’s so hard to tell anything from the preseason.

And like you said, we should be comparing Volson to other rookies, not top veterans.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(08-22-2022, 10:55 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Great point.

So,  how about we compare him to Carman from last  year?

I think he’s already better than Carman.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-22-2022, 10:58 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I think he’s already better than Carman.

I do too, but Carman had a much harder road as a rookie. 

Coming off of back surgery and all and being put in a position he never played on the other side of the Line.

[QueenCity]

(08-22-2022, 10:12 PM)ochocincos Wrote: What determines average caliber starter?

Around the 15-20 range for LGs?
Around 30-40 range for OGs overall?
Specific PFF grade?
So many sacks allowed?

Above my pay grade... just needs to be better than last year sir.

The new troops should also help alleviate the pressure you'd think.

[Whatever]

(08-22-2022, 10:44 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I would like to see this compared with every decent rookie starting on the OL in the NFL instead of Joe Frickin' Thuney 
though for God sake...

I honestly don't know what a lot of you guys were expecting...

He played better than I expected in his first action against NFL starters. 

I thought he would struggle more than he did early. Carman also didn't play near as bad as others have said.

Prince was terrible in his one start, Adeniji terrible in his first start and so was Trey Hill. D'Ante had a couple bad penalties.

Look at it another way.

Burrow was pressured on 24.5% of our passing attempts last year.  If you divide those pressures equally amongst the OL, that's an average 4.9% pressure rate per lineman(though it's actually even lower than that because there will pressures assigned to RB's, TE's, free rushers, etc.).  And our OL sucked last year.  Each of our OL has to win over 95% of the time just to be as bad at pass pro as we were last year.  Volson only won on like 92.5% of his pass blocking snaps last night.  That's really bad, especially when that's padded by playing against 3rd and 4th stringers for a half.

Volson looked like a 4th round rookie.  He doesn't look like a guy that's going to be able to step in and be a quality starter.  We can probably get by with him, but he will negatively offset our FA upgrades to a degree.  

[Essex Johnson]

(08-22-2022, 10:36 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: With a 6.1 career AVG he throws all short passes and does not push the ball down the field.

well players have to get separation and there is an obvious reason on short passes, our backup line sucks.. 

[Frank Booth]

Mike Brown should hire Nate to shill the product

[thompson19osu]

Brandon Allen as a winner? Wow not sure what game I watched. For all I could guess he was still concussed throwing with such inaccuracy I assumed he must have been seeing double.

If God forbid Burrow goes down Allen gives this team maybe a 5% chance of winning.

[Whatever]

(08-22-2022, 10:49 PM)TheFan Wrote: I don't really care about how he compared to a good 6 year starter. But what was he compared to Spain last year? If Volson is the worst starter on our line I think we'll be okay. If he's in the top 2 we are screwed. 

I believe another poster said Spain had a pass pro grade of like 58, which is miles better than Volson's 30 something.  He wound up giving up 5 sacks, which is tied for the 11th most by a G.  

I think we can get by with Volson, but it's effectively like playing with one of our backups.  If we have one or two starters miss significant time with injury, it could be really ugly.

I'll also say that that if Volson allowed a free runner to drop Burrow the way he did Allen, I highly doubt anybody would be annoiting him the starter.  

[Frank Booth]

(08-22-2022, 10:49 PM)TheFan Wrote: I don't really care about how he compared to a good 6 year starter. But what was he compared to Spain last year? If Volson is the worst starter on our line I think we'll be okay. If he's in the top 2 we are screwed. 

Spain was actually good. Not just bengals good, he was league wide good.

The bengals have a weak spot at LG this season

[*Go Cards*]

(08-22-2022, 10:02 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Fair, but do we really care about what Volson COULD be? Or do we need someone solid-or-better for 2022 and 2023?

Truth and get that as well, just not a Spain fan even though the #'s support him somewhat. 

Only want better somehow, someway. Hoping a camp cut falls to us or the rookies do better when flanked by the starters. 

[fredtoast]

(08-22-2022, 10:36 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: With a 6.1 career AVG he throws all short passes and does not push the ball down the field.

Yards per attempt is dependent on completion percentage.  You can attempt a lot of deep passes but if you don't complete a high percentage you will have a low average per attempt.

What you should really look at is yards per completion.  In 2020 Allen actually had a higher average per completion (10.3) than Burrow (10.2).

Allen's career average per completion is 10.9 which is not far off of Burrow's 11.6.