Zac just isn't learning

[*Nately120*]

Ignoring his first season (even though he was supposed to be an instant upgrade over Marvin and resurrect Dalton and finally get the most out of Ross), how many seasons do you think ZT has as a HC in the NFL where Joe Burrow isn't his starting QB (and that includes games/seasons where Burrow is the starter, but is out and ZT gets a pass because c'mon Burrow is out)?

[chopperbobby]

(11-01-2022, 10:30 PM)JWW1971 Wrote: How long do we give this guy while he continues to make the same mistakes, the guy just isn't learning.
I also wanted to say that the Jonah Williams project isn't working either, the guy is hopeless

Until his contract is up. He will probably get another extension. He did win some play off gages and went to the super bowl. Mike is ok with that. I think they already jacked up my parking and tickets for next year. Ride the wave another 30 years

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-02-2022, 12:26 PM)LSUfaninTN Wrote: ZT bought himself 3 mediocre seasons or 2 terrible seasons. Bengals are a legit national brand now and regardless of the past, there's no way they're going to deal with losing a ton of money by putting an inferior product on the field. 

You nailed it with Zac riding Burrow's coattails. But Burrow's no dummy, I don't think he's going to deal with a crap coach for very long. He has the clout to speak up and ownership will listen. 

Not a single chance in hell this happens. Burrow is a Zac fan. 

[*Nately120*]

(11-02-2022, 12:56 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Not a single chance in hell this happens. Burrow is a Zac fan. 

Oy, Burrow is like that guy who marries his first girlfriend that he took to the junior high pumpkin hoedown dance.  I mean, good for him but lordy you have to wonder how he doesn't lie awake at night and wonder if his first ever might not have been the only person on the planet for him.

[higgy100]

(11-02-2022, 12:59 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Oy, Burrow is like that guy who marries his first girlfriend that he took to the junior high pumpkin hoedown dance.  I mean, good for him but lordy you have to wonder how he doesn't lie awake at night and wonder if his first ever might not have been the only person on the planet for him.

Definitely a good conversation but JB doesn't look at ZT like a fan does. He knows exactly what it takes to implement a game plan and that the players are also missing blocks/ gaps/ wrong patterns/ ball positioning/ angles/etc.

Did you see the the recent thread where Mixon missed a hole 6 feet wide by cutting outside instead of inside where there was not even a safety within 20 yards? Guess what, ZT called a perfect play but Mixon reads it wrong.Terrible instincts. Mixon knows it, Burrow knows it, the right side of the OL knows it and so does ZT.

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-02-2022, 12:59 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Oy, Burrow is like that guy who marries his first girlfriend that he took to the junior high pumpkin hoedown dance.  I mean, good for him but lordy you have to wonder how he doesn't lie awake at night and wonder if his first ever might not have been the only person on the planet for him.

Football players aren't usually like fans, who look at a final score or a record and don't take anything else into consideraton. 

Burrow knows what the plan is. Burrow knows who executes and who doesn't. Same as everyone else on the team. 

Fans look at a score and go "this guy sucks!!!!!", when he didn't throw a single block or pass or try to tackle anyone. 

The amount of leeway Zac gives Burrow is a huge consideration as well. If you're a QB that has a big say in the offense, are you going to assume the next guy gives you that same amount of rope?

[Bengalstripes9]

(11-02-2022, 12:21 PM)higgy100 Wrote: Gio is a good running back for any offense. He is powerful, he's short, he's quick, he gets lost in the pile and runs with all his leverage low to the ground. Sound like anybody else on the team this year, maybe with the name Perrine?

Perines a little bit bigger of a back. But yeah, I think he's a better fit for this offense. 

It still seems like Zac is trying to figure things out on the fly and doesn't have a firm vision for how everyone fits into the offense. Hopefully he can figure it out because he's not going anywhere.

[*Nately120*]

(11-02-2022, 01:09 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: The amount of leeway Zac gives Burrow is a huge consideration as well. If you're a QB that has a big say in the offense, are you going to assume the next guy gives you that same amount of rope?

God help us if Burrow had a big say in basing the game plan around -3 yard passes to Mixon.


EDIT - Also, I'm just sort of making conversation here...I'm pretty sure ZT is going to be our HC until like 2040 or so or at least for all of the Burrow era plus maybe a season or two without him.  I'm thinking as soon as Burrow is gone, whether he retires after 18 years as a Bengal with 7 SBs, or he gets lured away by the zillionaire owners of the Panthers/Broncos, or if he walks outside tomorrow and aliens abduct him and he's never seen again, a 1 season countdown clock appears over ZT's head.

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-02-2022, 01:06 PM)higgy100 Wrote: Definitely a good conversation but JB doesn't look at ZT like a fan does. He knows exactly what it takes to implement a game plan and that the players are also missing blocks/ gaps/ wrong patterns/ ball positioning/ angles/etc.

Did you see the the recent thread where Mixon missed a hole 6 feet wide by cutting outside instead of inside where there was not even a safety within 20 yards? Guess what, ZT called a perfect play but Mixon reads it wrong.Terrible instincts. Mixon knows it, Burrow knows it, the right side of the OL knows it and so does ZT.

I manned up and rewatched last night, to watch every Mixon run. By my count, he had better option on every single run and if you're talking about the play i think you're talking about...it was REALLY bad. Blocker in front of him, defender shading left and Mixon...cuts left???? right into the 2 of them when he had nothing but green grass to the right. 

Bad.

EDIT: You're talking about a different play (though you could be talking about every run Mixon had). The one i'm talking about was in the middle of the field and it was wide open to the right and Mixon ran right into getting tackled.

EDIT TO THE EDIT: I can only imagine what the Oline is thinking, sitting there in films, watching him and wondering "wtf is he doing??".

[*bengalfan74*]

(11-02-2022, 12:43 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Ignoring his first season (even though he was supposed to be an instant upgrade over Marvin and resurrect Dalton and finally get the most out of Ross), how many seasons do you think ZT has as a HC in the NFL where Joe Burrow isn't his starting QB (and that includes games/seasons where Burrow is the starter, but is out and ZT gets a pass because c'mon Burrow is out)?

Good question ?

At this point in time I'd say very few.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-02-2022, 01:27 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I manned up and rewatched last night, to watch every Mixon run. By my count, he had better option on every single run and if you're talking about the play i think you're talking about...it was REALLY bad. Blocker in front of him, defender shading left and Mixon...cuts left???? right into the 2 of them when he had nothing but green grass to the right. 

Bad.

EDIT: You're talking about a different play (though you could be talking about every run Mixon had). The one i'm talking about was in the middle of the field and it was wide open to the right and Mixon ran right into getting tackled.

EDIT TO THE EDIT: I can only imagine what the Oline is thinking, sitting there in films, watching him and wondering "wtf is he doing??".

I *do* put that on Zac. He needs to bench him.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-01-2022, 10:30 PM)JWW1971 Wrote: How long do we give this guy while he continues to make the same mistakes, the guy just isn't learning.
I also wanted to say that the Jonah Williams project isn't working either, the guy is hopeless

You just have to hope he does learn like last season, same shit, different season.

Get the LT and RB spot fixed and change up the playbook. I think we can beat the Panthers Sunday and do this during the bye.

I am not panicking, we saw it done last season, it could happen again. The problems are blatant, said it last year, Zac is young 
and can learn new tricks, have to say it again sadly. But if he doesn't, I am ready to move on.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-02-2022, 01:27 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I manned up and rewatched last night, to watch every Mixon run. By my count, he had better option on every single run and if you're talking about the play i think you're talking about...it was REALLY bad. Blocker in front of him, defender shading left and Mixon...cuts left???? right into the 2 of them when he had nothing but green grass to the right. 

Bad.

EDIT: You're talking about a different play (though you could be talking about every run Mixon had). The one i'm talking about was in the middle of the field and it was wide open to the right and Mixon ran right into getting tackled.

EDIT TO THE EDIT: I can only imagine what the Oline is thinking, sitting there in films, watching him and wondering "wtf is he doing??".

Well done Rfaulk. Mixon is the problem besides Jonah no question. Zac would look so much better in his play calling if 
these guys were doing their job some. Bench Mixon at the very least cause of this game. Damn rights on what the OL
and Zac are thinking watching that film. WTF? lol

[BengalsBong]

(11-02-2022, 09:02 AM)Housh Wrote: This is where I’ll disagree. I’m actually cutting Zac ALOT of slack on this because Iv wanted to see if it would work.


Just totally disregard the run, and run situationally(short downs) and then RANDOMLY sprinkle SOME runs in. Part of me feels like that would pressure the D more than just rushing 30 times no matter what. If we are passing like we did in Atlanta you can not guard that.

The strategy only becomes stupid when you can’t pass. Cause then you are just giving the other team the ball too quickly

You got to complete passes downfield 10 yards or more to get this strat to work. Which we fail to do we fail to attack the middle of the field when they are in two high safety looks.

Other coaches are learning how to beat Zac and he has no answer for it. Injuries are just excuses at this point we struggled on offense before we started losing guys to injury this year.

[lone bengal]

Like Zac as head coach not as a play caller. The fact that we can’t score points with Burrow ,Higgins, Boyd, Hurst, And Mixon is laughable. The offense is awful at times even with Chase. Far as the line goes are we sure coaching and scheme isn’t the problem? We didn’t have the horses up front last year but Cappa, Karras and Collins have always been good run blockers now they stink all of a sudden ? Are we wasting the offensive line talent like we are the WR talent? Zero creativity, can’t stop the pass rush how many screens has this team run this year? Fans crying we we run 3 receivers sets and need more WR’s. Get creative , Browns going Chubb behind center , extra offensive lineman in motion then down blocking LB’s , two back sets with Chubb and Hunt.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-02-2022, 02:08 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Well done Rfaulk. Mixon is the problem besides Jonah no question. Zac would look so much better in his play calling if 
these guys were doing their job some. Bench Mixon at the very least cause of this game. Damn rights on what the OL
and Zac are thinking watching that film. WTF? lol

Maybe they can "scheme" Mixon into hitting the proper hole. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-02-2022, 02:08 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Well done Rfaulk. Mixon is the problem besides Jonah no question. Zac would look so much better in his play calling if 
these guys were doing their job some. Bench Mixon at the very least cause of this game. Damn rights on what the OL
and Zac are thinking watching that film. WTF? lol

A couple questions that pop into my head...

With them running so much zone earlier and Mixon not getting anything, then Perine comes in against the Jets and powers his way down the field, did Mixon just say 'ok, f it. i'm gonna get it and go'. Then they change up and start running more gap and now he's getting to the LoS so fast, he doesn't have time to react properly? Though that would be true for either concept. 

Is Mixon more suited to zone type scheme but the line is more suited for gap? I'd have to spend some time looking back at when Joe was successful and to see what holes were there earlier this year to miss to find those answers and i don't know that there's anymore time in the day for me to fit it in. lol

Does Mixon just need to slow it down a tick so he has more time to see holes opening? Fans don't want to hear that because all the yelling earlier this year was about how he's dancing behind the line too much. 

To me though, the problem lies more on Mixon and less on the Oline and Zac. 

[Daddy-O]

(11-01-2022, 10:50 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Let’s say something positive first about Zac Taylor; he’s an excellent judge of talent.  His drafts and free agency acquisitions have been good...

...but as much as Zac excels at spotting talent, he stinks at developing that talent.

Don't mean this in an attacking way, but what makes you think Zac is the person identifying talent when he continually says "Duke and his team do a great job in draft preparation"?

No doubt he has input to who we pick but do you really think he's out there beating down the pavement to find potential draft picks?

Using the word "excels" in regards to Zac spotting talent is a little far fetched.  Burrow = no brainer, Tee Higgins = no brainer, Logan Wilson = great draft pick (did Zac find him?), Jaamar Chase = no brainer, Jackson Carmen = bust.  Every team should hit on 1st and 2nd rounders, and even 3rd rounder when you're picking 1st overall (see Logan Wilson).  When you pick next to last is when you should shine if you excel at talent evaluation.  So far meh on that one.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-02-2022, 03:11 PM)Daddy-O Wrote: Don't mean this in an attacking way, but what makes you think Zac is the person identifying talent when he continually says "Duke and his team do a great job in draft preparation"?

No doubt he has input to who we pick but do you really think he's out there beating down the pavement to find potential draft picks?

Using the word "excels" in regards to Zac spotting talent is a little far fetched.  Burrow = no brainer, Tee Higgins = no brainer, Logan Wilson = great draft pick (did Zac find him?), Jaamar Chase = no brainer, Jackson Carmen = bust.  Every team should hit on 1st and 2nd rounders, and even 3rd rounder when you're picking 1st overall (see Logan Wilson).  When you pick next to last is when you should shine if you excel at talent evaluation.  So far meh on that one.

I don't think anyone knows.

The Bengals, for the past 25 years have been absolutely great at drafting WR's and RB's. Maybe the best team in the league.

Burrow was a no brainer at 1. The trick was being bad enough to draft 1.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-02-2022, 03:03 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: A couple questions that pop into my head...

With them running so much zone earlier and Mixon not getting anything, then Perine comes in against the Jets and powers his way down the field, did Mixon just say 'ok, f it. i'm gonna get it and go'. Then they change up and start running more gap and now he's getting to the LoS so fast, he doesn't have time to react properly? Though that would be true for either concept. 

Is Mixon more suited to zone type scheme but the line is more suited for gap? I'd have to spend some time looking back at when Joe was successful and to see what holes were there earlier this year to miss to find those answers and i don't know that there's anymore time in the day for me to fit it in. lol

Does Mixon just need to slow it down a tick so he has more time to see holes opening? Fans don't want to hear that because all the yelling earlier this year was about how he's dancing behind the line too much. 

To me though, the problem lies more on Mixon and less on the Oline and Zac. 

Good questions, but Mixon was running well against the Ravens in the Gap scheme, so I just think it is him and his poor
vision. Sometimes a RB needs a little patience, but he was being over patient early in the season acting like this was the 
steelers OL that Leveon Bell had back in the day that could hold all day and not get called.

Agreed, the problem lies with Mixon. Those holes were huge on Monday night.