Zac just isn't learning

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(11-05-2022, 12:24 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Well here's how you tell he's a good coach. For the last decade, this place has been full of whining about "No playoff wins for 30 years" and "All I want to see is a playoff win." We have heard over and over how making the playoffs 5 years in a row meant nothing, regular season means nothing... it's all about the playoffs. Well, ZT is 1-0 in Wild Card playoff games. He's 1-0 in Divisional round playoff games. He's 1-0 in AFC Championship games. And he took us to the last seco ds of a Super Bowl in his 1st trip. Now all of a sudden we are 4-4 and people want him canned. Some people just can't be happy if they don't get what they want exactly when they want it. And don't give me any of the "Burrow is carrying him" crap, we had a shiming star out of USC named Palmer who was all that and a bag of chips coming out of college, and had Chad and TJ to throw to, and Marvin did squat with them. It took Dalton coming in to get us back into the playoffs on a regular basis. The complainers will always move the bar so they can continue to complain.

This is an outstanding analysis. Zac Taylor IS a good coach, Andy Dalton was better than Carson Palmer, and Marvin Lewis deserves respect for pulling the Bengals out of the basement.

Will Zac get better? Will he understand he needs a run game to win in the AFC North? Will he rediscover the occasional need to play smashmouth football? The answer to all these questions is yes.

[NUGDUKWE]

(11-04-2022, 08:20 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Zac Taylor could take this team to the Super Bowl this year, win it, and before training camp is over next year the same old people with the same old grudges would be calling for him to be fired. It's as if they would rather be right in their 1st take that he sucks, than anything else. 

Yeah we made it to the superbowl last year but we had one of the worst offensive playoff outputs to ever make it to the superbowl. It was the defense that did most of the heavy lifting and with the injuries piling up on that side of the ball we are not making it to the superbowl. I feel like Zac came into this season like he is a championship caliber play caller and is finding out that he's closer to the 20-36-1 his record shows. The players play tough for Taylor now whether that's do to the caliber of men they are or Taylor being a players coach or a bit of both. I think the call on Taylor will be if he's able to look in the mirror this off-season and get someone in here to run the offense. 

[OUatown]

(11-05-2022, 03:29 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Yeah we made it to the superbowl last year but we had one of the worst offensive playoff outputs to ever make it to the superbowl. It was the defense that did most of the heavy lifting and with the injuries piling up on that side of the ball we are not making it to the superbowl. I feel like Zac came into this season like he is a championship caliber play caller and is finding out that he's closer to the 20-36-1 his record shows. The players play tough for Taylor now whether that's do to the caliber of men they are or Taylor being a players coach or a bit of both. I think the call on Taylor will be if he's able to look in the mirror this off-season and get someone in here to run the offense. 

It took the Eagles coach 1 year to realize this! We would be going into year 5. Worrisome to say the least.

[NUGDUKWE]

(11-05-2022, 03:19 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: This is an outstanding analysis.  Zac Taylor IS a good coach, Andy Dalton was better than Carson Palmer, and Marvin Lewis deserves respect for pulling the Bengals out of the basement.

Will Zac get better?  Will he understand he needs a run game to win in the AFC North?  Will he rediscover the occasional need to play smashmouth football?  The answer to all these questions is yes.

First I know I'm being negative right now. But I'm not so sure the answer to all those questions are yes. We were running the ball well with Mixon when Taylor came in. I thought that the very least the running game blueprint was there for Taylor which is more than some new head coaches get. He still came in trying to throw it 40 plus times with Dalton and took him a half a season to figure out how to run it when the answer was right there the whole time. Mixon has looked bad but I'm still not entirely sure it's not the scheme we're trying to run rather than Mixon himself. Also it's impossible to say any coach will get better let alone a coach who continues to make the same mistakes and especially mistakes that he calls himself out on. 

[NUGDUKWE]

(11-05-2022, 03:40 PM)OUatown Wrote: It took the Eagles coach 1 year to realize this! We would be going into year 5. Worrisome to say the least.

Yeah if the trend continues and our offense is worse than last year when it's all said and done Taylor needs to step aside on the play calling front. If he refuses to do this then I fear we may have peaked under Taylor.

[SouthernFan]

(11-04-2022, 07:19 PM)EasyPeasy Wrote: What coaching upgrade would take this job and not carry his own risks of ineptitude to the organization? There are no top tier head coaches that want this job. It's currently much better than when Marvin left no doubt, but it is still Cincinnati and the Brown family, and any prospective coach would be thinking that they could conceivably make it to the super bowl and get fired the next year.

Nah, making it to the super bowl is an automatic 5 year contract extension!

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-05-2022, 03:41 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: First I know I'm being negative right now. But I'm not so sure the answer to all those questions are yes. We were running the ball well with Mixon when Taylor came in. I thought that the very least the running game blueprint was there for Taylor which is more than some new head coaches get. He still came in trying to throw it 40 plus times with Dalton and took him a half a season to figure out how to run it when the answer was right there the whole time. Mixon has looked bad but I'm still not entirely sure it's not the scheme we're trying to run rather than Mixon himself. Also it's impossible to say any coach will get better let alone a coach who continues to make the same mistakes and especially mistakes that he calls himself out on. 

It is Mixon himself, dude has had tons of giant holes and missed them, he doesn't follow his blockers at times and decides
to instead run into the Defenders. Saw this at least a couple times early in the season where he would of had TD's, but no, 
he has terrible vision now. I don't know how all of a sudden this happens to a RB but it has.

Zac would look like a much better play caller right now if we had a RB with some vision, our OL and running game would 
also look much better and I bet we would of won at least a couple more games with a better RB. I think Mixon is washed 
up the same as Huber honestly from watching him and I thought Mixon was going to have a great year behind this OL.

If I have a complaint with Zac right now it is keeping Huber over Chrisman and giving so many snaps to a RB with no vision.

[NUGDUKWE]

(11-05-2022, 05:09 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: It is Mixon himself, dude has had tons of giant holes and missed them, he doesn't follow his blockers at times and decides
to instead run into the Defenders. Saw this at least a couple times early in the season where he would of had TD's, but no, 
he has terrible vision now. I don't know how all of a sudden this happens to a RB but it has.

Zac would look like a much better play caller right now if we had a RB with some vision, our OL and running game would 
also look much better and I bet we would of won at least a couple more games with a better RB. I think Mixon is washed 
up the same as Huber honestly from watching him and I thought Mixon was going to have a great year behind this OL.

If I have a complaint with Zac right now it is keeping Huber over Chrisman and giving so many snaps to a RB with no vision.

I saw some breakdowns of game earlier in the year where it did appear Mixon missed the whole. But I've also seen since positive runs where Mixon set up his blocking very well by drawing the defender into the blocker and making a nice cut. If we hadn't literally seen this exact same struggles with Mixon and then he turns it on later in the season I would be 100 percent it is him. But it may just be the blocking scheme. We had a 2 game stretch where he and the OL seemed to be working very well together. Then these last 2 it's been back to struggling so I'm not sure what the culprit is at the moment. Again it could be Mixon but Zac and Co. have proved in the past to struggle with run play design or scheme. Also not sure what's up with Chris Evans. Not necessarily worried about him not getting many carries a game but I can't understand why we refuse to get him involved in the passing game. This is the kind of stubbornness that really concerns me about Zac and why I think it might be scheme over Mixon.

[Sled21]

(11-05-2022, 03:45 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Yeah if the trend continues and our offense is worse than last year when it's all said and done Taylor needs to step aside on the play calling front. If he refuses to do this then I fear we may have peaked under Taylor.

I have no problem with him giving up play calling. There is a lot more to being a head coach than play calling. That is why the calls for him being canned are ludicrous.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-05-2022, 06:01 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I saw some breakdowns of game earlier in the year where it did appear Mixon missed the whole. But I've also seen since positive runs where Mixon set up his blocking very well by drawing the defender into the blocker and making a nice cut. If we hadn't literally seen this exact same struggles with Mixon and then he turns it on later in the season I would be 100 percent it is him. But it may just be the blocking scheme. We had a 2 game stretch where he and the OL seemed to be working very well together. Then these last 2 it's been back to struggling so I'm not sure what the culprit is at the moment. Again it could be Mixon but Zac and Co. have proved in the past to struggle with run play design or scheme. Also not sure what's up with Chris Evans. Not necessarily worried about him not getting many carries a game but I can't understand why we refuse to get him involved in the passing game. This is the kind of stubbornness that really concerns me about Zac and why I think it might be scheme over Mixon.

It is both scheme and Mixon, all good points but we run much better in the Gap scheme because it fits our OL so much 
better than the Wide Zone. Mixon just has zero vision at times and if he just hit the hole or adjusted to what is in front 
of him better, the Offense would be playing much better as a whole and the OL wouldn't look as bad.

We have 2 players right now that are hindering the entire Offense, Jonah and Mixon. We can help Jonah and he is playing
through injury but Mixon needs to take a back seat because he cannot pick up the blitz either and Perine can.

Very true on Evans, baffled by the lack of snaps he is getting at RB and in the passing game. He had a nice 25+ catch on 
the sideline against the Browns and then we never saw him again, this is frustrating to me by Zac and the coaches.

(11-05-2022, 06:05 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I have no problem with him giving up play calling. There is a lot more to being a head coach than play calling. That is why the calls for him being canned are ludicrous.

Yep.

[Soonerpeace]

Well the offense w/o Chase and Mixon looks awfully good. Being able to run the ball is critical. They were just good enough yesterday to compliment the passing game. The OL to me is all the difference in the world. I think they are going to get even better. We play 7 more games. If we can beat Tenn. on Sunday we have to finish 3-3 to get to 10 wins. That was where I thought we’d reach. Far cry from where we were headed. But I’m shockingly not conceding any losses. This team is capable of beating anybody

[*Go Cards*]

(11-21-2022, 12:13 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Well the offense w/o Chase and Mixon looks awfully good. Being able to run the ball is critical. They were just good enough yesterday to compliment the passing game. The OL to me is all the difference in the world. I think they are going to get even better. We play 7 more games. If we can beat Tenn. on Sunday we have to finish 3-3 to get to 10 wins. That was where I thought we’d reach. Far cry from where we were headed. But I’m shockingly not conceding any losses. This team is capable of beating anybody

Yep

there are a lot of good teams left on the schedule, yet the Bengals are a good team as well. 

Sometimes we are too busy nitpicking to even notice. 

[higgy100]

(11-21-2022, 12:13 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Well the offense w/o Chase and Mixon looks awfully good. Being able to run the ball is critical. They were just good enough yesterday to compliment the passing game. The OL to me is all the difference in the world. I think they are going to get even better. We play 7 more games. If we can beat Tenn. on Sunday we have to finish 3-3 to get to 10 wins. That was where I thought we’d reach. Far cry from where we were headed. But I’m shockingly not conceding any losses. This team is capable of beating anybody

Yep. Again, Steelers are an all-out D that can put 7-8 defenders on the LOS and will gamble on outnumbering the OL and getting to the QB. Worked pretty good yesterday in getting penetration with deflections but the OL did a great job overall creating some running room when they needed it and giving JB just enough time. Great game plan by ZT and the coaches. Just amazing they left Perrine open like that 3x without their full weaponry at wideout. JB checked off a couple times and did not stare down Perrine and led him on all 3 plays.

Entire team came out of HT confident and composed. Ironically, next sunday will be there 7th road game out of 11 games. Not sure I've ever seen that variance in home-to-road games. While very difficult, 4 out of their last 6 at home.

[KillerGoose]

(11-21-2022, 12:13 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Well the offense w/o Chase and Mixon looks awfully good. Being able to run the ball is critical. They were just good enough yesterday to compliment the passing game. The OL to me is all the difference in the world. I think they are going to get even better. We play 7 more games. If we can beat Tenn. on Sunday we have to finish 3-3 to get to 10 wins. That was where I thought we’d reach. Far cry from where we were headed. But I’m shockingly not conceding any losses. This team is capable of beating anybody

Cincinnati ran the ball 24 times for 63 yards (2.6 yards per carry). They were absolutely abysmal running the ball lol.

[Sled21]

Still undefeated in the white helmets though....

[higgy100]

(11-21-2022, 12:32 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Cincinnati ran the ball 24 times for 63 yards (2.6 yards per carry). They were absolutely abysmal running the ball lol.

Bengals had 7 runs for more than 4 yards out of 20 rushes (24 total but Burrow had 4 rushes) and the last 3 rushes were right into the line to force the Steelers to use their TO's. So it's really 7 runs out of 17 that went for 4 or more yards.That's far from abysmal and plenty effective enough going against a team that loaded the box the entire game to get pressure on JB.

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-21-2022, 12:32 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Cincinnati ran the ball 24 times for 63 yards (2.6 yards per carry). They were absolutely abysmal running the ball lol.

What you need to realize is those runs were not sacks, or hits to the QB.  If you never run the ball, your play-action is useless and your defenders will be just pinning their ears back with no rush lane integrity because it is a race to the QB.  That QB, unfortunately, is still usually in exactly the same spot.  I would hope for some more moving pockets and misdirection.  

Burrow was a master yesterday, but they could help make his life a bit easier with some more moving pockets and misdirection runs mixed in to slow the pass rush a bit.  

[KillerGoose]

(11-21-2022, 12:45 PM)higgy100 Wrote: Bengals had 7 runs for more than 4 yards out of 20 rushes (24 total but Burrow had 4 rushes) and the last 3 rushes were right into the line to force the Steelers to use their TO's. So it's really 7 runs out of 17 that went for 4 or more yards.That's far from abysmal and plenty effective enough going against a team that loaded the box the entire game to get pressure on JB.

Man, we are really lowering our standards now. Excluding sacks and the time killing runs like you mentioned, Cincinnati averaged....3.2 yards per carry. That would be good for 31st in the league. It was an absolutely awful day running the ball, no matter how you spin it. 

[KillerGoose]

(11-21-2022, 12:56 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: What you need to realize is those runs were not sacks, or hits to the QB.  If you never run the ball, your play-action is useless and your defenders will be just pinning their ears back with no rush lane integrity because it is a race to the QB.  That QB, unfortunately, is still usually in exactly the same spot.  I would hope for some more moving pockets and misdirection.  

Burrow was a master yesterday, but they could help make his life a bit easier with some more moving pockets and misdirection runs mixed in to slow the pass rush a bit.  

The bolded isn't true. Play-action just works, regardless of run game effectiveness or frequency. Defenses have to respect that threat of a run, they have run fits built into each call. If the QB flashes run, they have to respect it. Now, to your original point I do understand that they weren't sacks or QB hits. That's great, but that wasn't my point. I was pointing out that the run game was terrible yesterday. I guess if you want to run the ball just to keep your QB safe, then sure it complemented it. However, if you want to run the ball effectively and gash the defense, they failed. 

[Sled21]

This whole "Zac Taylor just isn't learning" thing is a bit confusing to me. His first season was 2/14. His 2nd season was 4-11 (Total injury devastated defense that year). His 3rd season was 10-7 and the Super Bowl. So far this year, the team sits at 6-4. If that's not progression, then what is it? Not to mention he's what 3-1 or 4-1 against the hated Stealers?