Jackson Carman or Jonah Williams

[THE PISTONS]

It's troubling that Jonah regressed. And I don't see any of our lineman developing.

[Frank Booth]

(02-02-2023, 03:13 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It's troubling that Jonah regressed. And I don't see any of our lineman developing.

Im giving him a small pass for a multitude of reasons. he had to play next to rookie Volson when the line was all struggling in the beginning due to lack of chemistry.

he started to pick it up, struggled against elite guys like usual though, which is what we should all come to expect.

then the knee cap issue hurt his play. Once the bye week came, and he recovered a bit, he played better.

Im giving him a small pass this year

[J24]

(02-02-2023, 03:13 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It's troubling that Jonah regressed. And I don't see any of our lineman developing.

Yep it's a disturbing trend about how bad Duke is at drafting OL.

[fortyyearfan]

(01-30-2023, 07:13 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: I think at the very least it needs to be an open competition. We know JC can’t play guard, but could Jonah fit somewhere else on the line that would upgrade what we have? Try to get the best value out of both of them. It was a pleasant surprise for him the past 2 weeks. He also helps in the run game more than Jonah.

Dump Jonah Williams and keep Carman,Jonah is a big time bust,he cannot handle super strong pass rushers,he is going to get Burrow KILLED. He is simple awlful. We need to draft a top LT.,I do not care for Williams he a a big time bust.



























w

[CJD]

Carman is a super small sample size, but he had really good pass protection grades in the two games he started.

A 76.0 pass blocking grade vs Buffalo and a 64.7 pass blocking grade vs KC.

Those grades comfortably led the team in both games.

I'd be happy to have him compete with Jonah in training camp and possibly replace him, but I'm not getting rid of Jonah early just because 2 games is not enough to know that Carman is definitely the better player.

Maybe they can try them both out at RT and see how they respond. My gut tells me that Carman would make a really good RT because he's big and hard to move. If he held up at LT, he should be even better at RT since the LT is generally the more athletic of the two tackles (although that distinction is disappearing over time since many team's don't dedicate their best pass rusher to RE anymore).

But then, he struggled with RG, so maybe he is just not good on the right side. It sounds absurd, but I've seen several offensive linemen say that playing left or right is just different. Like trying to golf with off hand clubs. I don't know how true that is, but there's a chance that Carman truly is just most comfortable at LT and, if so, and Jonah is capable of going to the right (I believe he played on that side in college for a bit), we may be wise to move Jonah to RT and keep Carman at LT.

I think Carman has the potential to be a long term starter, but we're just going to have to see how he comes into training camp.

[BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI]

(02-02-2023, 05:14 PM)fortyyearfan Wrote: Dump Jonah Williams and keep Carman,Jonah is a big time bust,he cannot handle super strong pass rushers,he is going to get Burrow KILLED. He is simple awlful. We need to draft a top LT.,I do not care for Williams he a a big time bust.

Do we move Jonah to RT, or draft a RT in Round 1 and have Jonah as a backup for both OT positions?  The argument is, we're not going to pay Jonah $13-Million to be a backup, and the head office will demand we start him at RT.

[*rfaulk34*]

(02-09-2023, 11:45 AM)BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI Wrote: Do we move Jonah to RT, or draft a RT in Round 1 and have Jonah as a backup for both OT positions?  The argument is, we're not going to pay Jonah $13-Million to be a backup, and the head office will demand we start him at RT.

Keep them both at LT. The best man wins in TC, the other guy waits in the wings. That gives you 2 potentially decent LTs. If you have to pay JW 13M as a backup, it's only for 1 year. 

Then you either sign a FA RT or draft one and allow Collins to rehab and come back when he can. That should give you 2 potentially decent RTs. 

No one in the FO is going to demand they pay Jonah because he's making 13M.

[XenoMorph]

(01-30-2023, 06:47 PM)ochocincos Wrote: That's only true if the Bengals trade him before the new league year starts, right?

if he can pass a psychical before the new league year i believe its only fully guaranteed if he's on the roster.

But its fully guaranteed for injury.


When a team exercises the option, it becomes guaranteed for injury only. If the player is on the team’s roster at the start of the League Year in his option season, his salary becomes fully guaranteed for skill, cap and injury.

[XenoMorph]

(02-02-2023, 04:28 PM)J24 Wrote: Yep it's a disturbing trend about how bad Duke is at drafting OL.

Who is scouting the OL for him?

[CincyWestside]

(02-09-2023, 11:45 AM)BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI Wrote: Do we move Jonah to RT, or draft a RT in Round 1 and have Jonah as a backup for both OT positions?  The argument is, we're not going to pay Jonah $13-Million to be a backup, and the head office will demand we start him at RT.

I don't think the head office cares much about who is making what. They proved that when they signed Trae Waynes and then watched him play second fiddle to the other guys before releasing him. Heck, we saw Perine who makes significantly less than Mixon outsnap him in the AFCC game.

Just put the best talent out there.

[Frank Booth]

(02-09-2023, 12:25 PM)CincyWestside Wrote: I don't think the head office cares much about who is making what. They proved that when they signed Trae Waynes and then watched him play second fiddle to the other guys before releasing him. Heck, we saw Perine who makes significantly less than Mixon outsnap him in the AFCC game.

Just put the best talent out there.

Trae Waynes kept getting injured

[*ochocincos*]

(02-02-2023, 04:28 PM)J24 Wrote: Yep it's a disturbing trend about how bad Duke is at drafting OL.

Jonah Williams was considered the safest OL prospect in the 2019 draft.
He was not a bad selection at all.
He just was not considered a blue chip prospect.
If he had been, he would have very likely gone before the Bengals picked in that draft.


Carman also may not end up being a bad pick.
He might just have been miscast at other positions other than LT, which was the only position he played in college.
We knew it would be difficult for someone who had played LT their whole college career to shift to another position.

The swings and misses seem to be on these late-round OTs. But they're late-round guys for a reason...you're kind of looking for a needle in a haystack.

Get OL early and/or get veterans to have your best chance to have quality OL.
And maybe stop trying to put players at positions they haven't played much of in college.

[Mike M (the other one)]

Right now, the only goal is WIN the SB.
After that, then we can try to re-tool, but for now, protect Joe, give him weapons and let him work.
Defensively, try to keep it together as much as possible and re-load now any spots that need help (based on who we lose)