So what now when it comes to the TE room?

[casear2727]

(03-23-2023, 03:06 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Comes from his offseason workouts and what I've seen in games.
He may be less refined when it comes to routes, but he was effective when he got opportunities - 17.2 YPC at Georgia.
At the Combine, he demonstrated really good speed, agility (shuttle), and explosiveness. Especially at his huge size of 6'7" 264 lbs. Most of these TEs that are even coming in the same ballpark are about 10-20 lbs lighter.
Put me in the camp he would have gotten more opportunities as a receiver if he didn't have All-American and likely Top 10 pick next year Brock Bowers ahead of him at TE.

Again though, there is a bit of risk with that. You are getting hands down an elite blocker though, which Cincy shown in the past they want TEs who can block.

Im not big on spending a 1st Rd pick on a workout warrior without production, seen it way too many times go wrong.  We target TE's that actually run real routes about 4 times per game, this kid runs routes slipping off of blocks and the occasional vertical, does that equate to even less targets?   Thats is risky at 28.

I love his athleticism and his potential, but are we looking for a project (albeit a minor one) in the 1st Round?

[*Synric*]

(03-23-2023, 02:52 PM)ochocincos Wrote: What constitutes "Tyler Eifert" in this case?

Mayer and Washington are 1st round caliber that I would target. Mayer is the safe choice, Washington is the ultimate blocker and high ceiling as a receiver.
Musgrave and Kincaid have the athleticism/speed to succeed as receivers, but I dunno about the blocking chops right out of the gate.
Kraft is very appealing, but there's risk with coming from FCS.
LaPorta showed very well too, but he's coming in at an unideal height at 6'3". I think he'll be fine as a starter though.

You could give Luke Musgrave run blocking snaps week one but I wouldnt trust him in pass protection and really that's going by all of like 3 pass pro reps in 2022 lol. I don't know how many people has had a chance to watch Luke Musgrave against Boise State yet but it's a really great game to show his NFL Projection. 

He has some really nice run block reps then loses one... one notable loss was right after he has a great catch crossing the face of JL Skinner on a 10 yard in puting Oregon State into the redzone. He loses the very next run block rep and the RB has to work hard for a couple yards lol. But he had a decent game as a run blocker even winning a good share of reps against DEs.

[Frank Booth]

(03-23-2023, 03:15 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Again, the only stat I truly care about is W's.  I get that better stats are helpful, but using the word "fail" is kinda meh....

I dont see us cutting Mixon unless we draft a true stud, and even then...., more likely a pay cut.  No doubt his salary needs to be addressed.

revamping the o-line only for the run game to get worse is a failure

[casear2727]

(03-23-2023, 03:19 PM)Synric Wrote: You could give Luke Musgrave run blocking snaps week one but I wouldnt trust him in pass protection and really that's going by all of like 3 pass pro reps in 2022 lol. I don't know how many people has had a chance to watch Luke Musgrave against Boise State yet but it's a really great game to show his NFL Projection. 

He has some really nice run block reps then loses one... one notable loss was right after he has a great catch crossing the face of JL Skinner on a 10 yard in puting Oregon State into the redzone. He loses the very next run block rep and the RB has to work hard for a couple yards lol. But he had a decent game as a run blocker even winning a good share of reps against DEs.

If Musgrave could block he would be the closest to Eifert in this class. If he had a better contested catch win rate AND could block, I could see him projected to be better than Eifert.

[Frank Booth]

(03-23-2023, 03:18 PM)higgy100 Wrote: Means absolutely nothing regarding the running game. Bengals made it to the SB two years ago and the AFC title game this year without a great rushing attack. Plenty of ways to use the short passing game as the running game which they did this past year.

There were at least 7 teams that averaged 4.5 ypc or more that didn't even make the playoffs, a couple more that didn't win a playoff game and another one the Bengals beat in the Bills.

Burrow has proven that he'll also take off when nothing is downfield to get big 1st down conversions.

you're gonna need to do better than 4.1 and 3.9 ypc. Bengals dont have to be a run first team, I dont want them to be

but the run game has to be effective when called upon. 3.9 and 4.1 both stink. It has to be addressed and fixed

[casear2727]

(03-23-2023, 03:21 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: revamping the o-line only for the run game to get worse is a failure

How much of that are you putting on the oline?  Weeks 6 thru 14 or whatever they had one of the best run block win rates and efficiencies, while Mixon maintained his terribly low forced missed tackles rate and other issues....


I will add that we are practically undefeated when Burrow is sacked 1 or less times so.... this seems to be where the W's live.

[Frank Booth]

(03-23-2023, 03:24 PM)casear2727 Wrote: How much of that are you putting on the oline?  Weeks 6 thru 14 or whatever they had one of the best run block win rates and efficiencies, while Mixon maintained his terribly low forced missed tackles rate and other issues....

Im all for cutting Mixon. All for it.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-23-2023, 03:06 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: that's really priority number 1 here. the run game is horrendous, and it was worse than 2021

And you can argue that if the run game is Priority 1, get the guy who is best at run blocking, which is Darnell Washington.
Then get a RT on Day 2 to compete with Carman for RT snaps while Collins recovers.

Alternatively, you can go Darnell Wright in Rd 1 and then look for a TE on Day 2, but you run more risk of not being able to get a TE who can't start as well the longer you wait.

There's also CB to worry about though, as there's no great CB4 on the roster and Awuzie is in recovery. It'd be real nice to have an early-round pick at CB who can be groomed at CB4 but also give hope of playing well if they had to fill in due to any injury.

[George Cantstandya]

(03-23-2023, 03:04 PM)BengalsBong Wrote:  I guess I am the only one asking for Mixon to be cut as well.

Not really.  There have been many people here including myself that mentioned it would be a benefit to move on from Mixon this year.  And those discussions were happening before the shenanigans that happened at his house.  They were based on his production compared to his contract and the cap saving by letting him go this year.

That said, now I'm wondering if that will happen.  If the Bengals were convinced to let him go for the cap savings and to move on I think maybe they would have done that by now with the post-June 1st designation.  It would not free up cap space until June 2nd.  But that way it would have done him a solid by giving him more time to be part of the free agent market.   Business is business though so things may very well change. 

[Frank Booth]

(03-23-2023, 03:27 PM)ochocincos Wrote: And you can argue that if the run game is Priority 1, get the guy who is best at run blocking, which is Darnell Washington.
Then get a RT on Day 2 to compete with Carman for RT snaps while Collins recovers.

Alternatively, you can go Darnell Wright in Rd 1 and then look for a TE on Day 2, but you run more risk of not being able to get a TE who can't start as well the longer you wait.

There's also CB to worry about though, as there's no great CB4 on the roster and Awuzie is in recovery. It'd be real nice to have an early-round pick at CB who can be groomed at CB4 but also give hope of playing well if they had to fill in due to any injury.

Im really not sure how much a good run blocking tight end actually improves the run game. I know it does, but just not by how much.

and I do believe Mixon deserves a bunch of blame for the run game being bad. Cappa, Collins, and Karras were all better run blockers than the guys that were there in 2021, and the run game was worse.

[BengalsBong]

(03-23-2023, 03:15 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Again, the only stat I truly care about is W's.  I get that better stats are helpful, but using the word "fail" is kinda meh....

I dont see us cutting Mixon unless we draft a true stud, and even then...., more likely a pay cut.  No doubt his salary needs to be addressed.

Win's matter and that is the only stat that does matter during the season. We are in the offseason and cannot get a win now so we look to improve the team in every way we can.

Go to the 16 min mark in the video it shows a chart about running backs. Mixon is really bad beyond help, we all said wait till Pollack becomes the O-line coach again Mixon will improve. Then it was wait till we get better players on the O-line his numbers will improve. I am just tired of waiting on him to improve he goes down way too easy after contact for my liking.

[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ua3sW-c_pc0&t=2277s](35) Jonah Williams trade talks heating up? - YouTube
[/url]

[*Go Cards*]

Looked at some mock drafts real quick, 2 NFL.com, SI, CBS, USA, and Walter

Only NFL Daniel Jerimiah has Wright and Mayer available at the Bengals pick. Although Charles Davis has Mayer available and mocked as well but not Wright falling.

4 out of the 6 have the Bengals taking Dalton Kincaid and after watching his highlights I would be very down with this pick. They say he is good at pass protection and resembles Tyler Eifert catching the ball to me. Yet not sure he falls as they are projecting either.

4 of the 6 show Wright and Mayer going in the top 20 selections. That is the big issue who will be available at #28. But somebody will fall just have to wait and see who it is before we beat each other down.

Bijan Robinson who I've said would be fine is mocked much higher as well and probably does not slip which should make most posters on here happy.

Now on the Kincaid bandwagon as well, but will be fine if Mayer or Washington are the choice

[*ochocincos*]

(03-23-2023, 03:30 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Im really not sure how much a good run blocking tight end actually improves the run game. I know it does, but just not by how much.

and I do believe Mixon deserves a bunch of blame for the run game being bad. Cappa, Collins, and Karras were all better run blockers than the guys that were there in 2021, and the run game was worse.

I would assume that is heavily determined by how many snaps a TE is being asked to help run block.

The TE with the most run blocking reps last year was Cole Kmet with 457 snaps.
Wilcox had 285 run blocking snaps.
Hurst had 149 run blocking snaps.
Asiasi had 139 run blocking snaps.
Sample had 18, but he was basically out the whole year.
Collectively, CIN TEs had 591 run blocking snaps.
So I would think that can be quite a lot.

[*Synric*]

(03-23-2023, 02:26 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Bergeron played RT and LT at Syracuse. I think he is built to play RT in the NFL. Carries the proper demeanor and everything to be a really good one at the position.

Matthew Bergeron is more fun to watch than his teammate Sean Tucker. I'm predicting Matthew Bergeron is one of those guys the league is higher on than the draft media analysts. 

I think his ceiling in the draft is the Bengals at 28. I'm not saying the Bengals should draft him at #28 just that of the second wave of tackles Harrison, Jones, and Bergeron the Bengals like Bergeron the most if they feel they need at RT at 28.

[*Synric*]

(03-23-2023, 03:45 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I would assume that is heavily determined by how many snaps a TE is being asked to help run block.

The TE with the most run blocking reps last year was Cole Kmet with 457 snaps.
Wilcox had 285 run blocking snaps.
Hurst had 149 run blocking snaps.
Asiasi had 139 run blocking snaps.
Sample had 18, but he was basically out the whole year.
Collectively, CIN TEs had 591 run blocking snaps.
So I would think that can be quite a lot.

The Bears offense is my perfect fit for Darnell Washington... to bad they don't have a pick in the area he would get drafted lol. 

[BengalsBong]

(03-23-2023, 03:30 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: Not really.  There have been many people here including myself that mentioned it would be a benefit to move on from Mixon this year.  And those discussions were happening before the shenanigans that happened at his house.   They were based on his production compared to his contract and the cap saving by letting him go this year.

That said, now I'm wondering if that will happen.  If the Bengals were convinced to let him go for the cap savings and to move on I think maybe they would have done that by now with the post-June 1st designation.  It would not free up cap space until June 2nd.  But that way it would have done him a solid by giving him more time to be part of the free agent market.   Business is business though so things may very well change. 

I am getting a bit concerned as well I really would like to break ties with him completely not just a pay cut. A pay cut will not improve his production as a RB. I hear a lot of talk about honoring his contract as well but if we do that not only does it cost us 12 million this year but 12 million next year as well since he is under contract for two more years.

[SunsetBengal]

(03-23-2023, 03:45 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I would assume that is heavily determined by how many snaps a TE is being asked to help run block.

The TE with the most run blocking reps last year was Cole Kmet with 457 snaps.
Wilcox had 285 run blocking snaps.
Hurst had 149 run blocking snaps.
Asiasi had 139 run blocking snaps.
Sample had 18, but he was basically out the whole year.
Collectively, CIN TEs had 591 run blocking snaps.
So I would think that can be quite a lot.

Not just run play blocking, but getting blocks down field on short pass routes to the WRs is huge, as well.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(03-23-2023, 03:18 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Im not big on spending a 1st Rd pick on a workout warrior without production, seen it way too many times go wrong.  We target TE's that actually run real routes about 4 times per game, this kid runs routes slipping off of blocks and the occasional vertical, does that equate to even less targets?   Thats is risky at 28.

I love his athleticism and his potential, but are we looking for a project (albeit a minor one) in the 1st Round?

I don't think that is an entirely fair characterization of Washington. His blocking production is real. That's on tape. He was just TE2 at Georgia because of Bowers, so got fewer targets. 

I mean, you are doing some projection in terms of his receiving skills. But the physical traits are elite. Worst case he is an elite blocker and fantastic short yardage/goal line target. I can live with that. He is almost like drafting a RT. The run game shouod improve with him at TE. 

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(03-23-2023, 03:47 PM)Synric Wrote: Matthew Bergeron is more fun to watch than his teammate Sean Tucker. I'm predicting Matthew Bergeron is one of those guys the league is higher on than the draft media analysts. 

I think his ceiling in the draft is the Bengals at 28. I'm not saying the Bengals should draft him at #28 just that of the second wave of tackles Harrison, Jones, and Bergeron the Bengals like Bergeron the most if they feel they need at RT at 28.

Bergeron is a reach at #28. A big one. Now, at #60 or #92, I like/love him. 

He is not gonna start year 1. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-23-2023, 03:11 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: once the jonah thing is figured out, then you can narrow down the solution

right now too many things can happen

True, I just don't think we will trade Jonah until after the Draft. Don't need to tip our hats we are going RT at 28.

(03-23-2023, 03:18 PM)higgy100 Wrote: Means absolutely nothing regarding the running game. Bengals made it to the SB two years ago and the AFC title game this year without a great rushing attack. Plenty of ways to use the short passing game as the running game which they did this past year.

There were at least 7 teams that averaged 4.5 ypc or more that didn't even make the playoffs, a couple more that didn't win a playoff game and another one the Bengals beat in the Bills.

Burrow has proven that he'll also take off when nothing is downfield to get big 1st down conversions.

Using the passing game as an extension of the run game is the way to roll but we still need to get our running game up to par as well.

I am kind of in the middle of both of your arguments here. If we get our running game to be a real threat our Offense goes from pretty 
good to nearly unstoppable with Burrow and our weapons. Tyjae Spears is flying up my board and a good blocking TE after one of the
top 3 RT's would be the ideal scenario in this draft IMHO.